39 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

I have some spare MC and I think I may as well spend it on a IS Hero.

I'm drawn to the Tempest because it's the only IS Heavy with ECM (except for 0XP, which is an awful Mech).

I know Jester has a lot of fans. But I have 250 Mechs, so yet another one with predominantly energy hardpoints isn't so appealing.

For me this purchase is about adding something a little different to my collection. Which of the two Mechs would you advise on that basis?

[El Bandito]

I piloted the Tempest, and I must say that I like the mech. Sure, it suffers a lot from very low cockpit, along with easy to hit torsi sections, but ECM really helps your survival. My stats in the Solo-Q with it is good.

Jester is a well liked mech, much more so than the Tempest. I don't own it though, cause I got much better Heavy energy boats.

[invernomuto]

I have the Tempest and I like how it plays. ECM helps a lot to remain alive.
I like this build:

An offensive - first line LRM harasser.

[Bud Crue]

Just know that a tempest is an awful ridge runner if you are planning to run it with missiles. Those doors pretty much negate the value of the ECM. I.e. enemy will know your location on the ridge line when they pop up over. I ended up running mine like...well a Jester: 2LPL, 4ML. Other Archers archer (srm or lrm) better. Other mechs make better laser spam builds. Just one terribad's opinon.

[Sader325]

Wow.

You could not be more wrong about these mechs if you tried, because you have misjudged them all. So let me do you a favor and help you out.

Let's start with your most glaring mistake: Thinking the Tempest is good.

The Tempest is one of the most terrible/anemic mechs in the game, it's so bad it shouldn't even be compared in the same breath as the Jester, the Tempest probably wishes it was half the mech the Jester was. The Tempest is a disaster of a mech, with terrible hardpoints, terrible quirks, and utterly awful at anything, The Archer 2R does everything the Tempest better and is absoloutly worth the trade off of not having ECM.

Speaking of ECM lets move on to mistake #2: Thinking the Cataphract OXP is bad.

Someone needs to wake up and take a look at the Cataphract's quirks, because despite what you may think, that Mech is a sleeper power house. It has all the quirks that the Tempest should have had, while moving just as fast and actually being useful. The Cataphract OXP is one of the best Cataphracts at the moment, and Cataphracts as a whole are actually hugely slept on, with MASSIVE structure quirks and a weapon quirks (hell one CTF has potential for 37% guass cooldown). Take a look at these quirks, but not before we move on to....

Mistake #3: Thinking that the Jester is in anyway comparable to a Tempest.

As I said before, the Tempest is a joke shadow of a mech that could of been, and the Jester is the exact opposite.

The Jester has real quirks, moves at a blazing 93 kph, and literally runs and jumps circles over the Tempest. The ECM that the Tempest provides doesn't make up for its awful quirks and hardpoints and a Jester is far and away the better choice, though this should be an absolute no brainer.

[Bud Crue]

Sader325, on 30 September 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

Someone needs to wake up and take a look at the Cataphract's quirks, because despite what you may think, that Mech is a sleeper power house. It has all the quirks that the Tempest should have had, while moving just as fast and actually being useful. The Cataphract OXP is one of the best Cataphracts at the moment, and Cataphracts as a whole are actually hugely slept on, with MASSIVE structure quirks and a weapon quirks (hell one CTF has potential for 37% guass cooldown). Take a look at these quirks, but not before we move on to....

Why, why, did you have to say this. Stop, delete your post. Repeat after me: "The Phract is terrible and useless. Those low mounted hard points make it inferior in every way to all other heavies." Not delete your post and tweet that to Russ, before they nerf it for what you have done.

[STEF_]

Jester all the way

[Appogee]

Sader325, on 30 September 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

Wow.

You could not be more wrong about these mechs if you tried, because you have misjudged them all. So let me do you a favor and help you out.

Let's start with your most glaring mistake: Thinking the Tempest is good.

The Tempest is one of the most terrible/anemic mechs in the game, it's so bad it shouldn't even be compared in the same breath as the Jester, the Tempest probably wishes it was half the mech the Jester was. The Tempest is a disaster of a mech, with terrible hardpoints, terrible quirks, and utterly awful at anything, The Archer 2R does everything the Tempest better and is absoloutly worth the trade off of not having ECM.

Speaking of ECM lets move on to mistake #2: Thinking the Cataphract OXP is bad.

Someone needs to wake up and take a look at the Cataphract's quirks, because despite what you may think, that Mech is a sleeper power house. It has all the quirks that the Tempest should have had, while moving just as fast and actually being useful. The Cataphract OXP is one of the best Cataphracts at the moment, and Cataphracts as a whole are actually hugely slept on, with MASSIVE structure quirks and a weapon quirks (hell one CTF has potential for 37% guass cooldown). Take a look at these quirks, but not before we move on to....

Mistake #3: Thinking that the Jester is in anyway comparable to a Tempest.

As I said before, the Tempest is a joke shadow of a mech that could of been, and the Jester is the exact opposite.

The Jester has real quirks, moves at a blazing 93 kph, and literally runs and jumps circles over the Tempest. The ECM that the Tempest provides doesn't make up for its awful quirks and hardpoints and a Jester is far and away the better choice, though this should be an absolute no brainer.

Thanks for your advice. It's a pity you had to be such a d1c5 about providing it, but hey, it seems good advice anyway.

With respect to your condescending points:
1. I didn't know whether the Tempest was good or not, that's why I asked for opinions.
2. I Mastered the 0XP. It was a chore compared to the dozens of Heavies I have Mastered.
3. I didn't know whether the Jester was comparable to a Tempest, that's why I asked for opinions.

Thank you everyone else, especially those who managed to provide advice without being a douche.

Edited by Appogee, 30 September 2016 - 06:13 AM.

[Morggo]

I'd agree with Bud Crue, I've had great success in my Tempest run as an energy mech and just welded shut the missile doors. I love the two top high mount e-points. And with the ECM, personally I found jamming a huge XL gave me fantastic speed to put that ecm cover to good use and generally stay mobile up and down the firing line.

Usually gets plenty of damage output and kills, though I will say that given the XL.. they will eventually nail you and you won't survive a good number of your matches though I normally make it well past mid match.

Dunno, your mileage may vary but I found Tempest a rather fun performer.

Jester.. well... I just love that thing for, well, everything. Looks fantastic, rolls damage like a champ, great quirks if you're into maxing them, fast.. yeah great mech too.

Can't go wrong with either but if you are as energy saturated as you say you may try the Tempest just to have the ECM flavor?

(and yes, I too am a 'Phract super fan... )

[Bud Crue]

Morggo, on 30 September 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

I'd agree with Bud Crue, I've had great success in my Tempest run as an energy mech and just welded shut the missile doors. I love the two top high mount e-points. And with the ECM, personally I found jamming a huge XL gave me fantastic speed to put that ecm cover to good use and generally stay mobile up and down the firing line.

Morggo, your post and comment about the high top mounts got me to thinking...I was wrong on my Tempest build, I originally did the 2LPLs and 4ML because I was, as usual, fixated with using all the hard points. While mastering it though I switched to a std 300, 3LPLs and 2ML. Though I hate the way the loan LPL looks in the center, I had better luck with this.

[Morggo]

Bud Crue, on 30 September 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Morggo, your post and comment about the high top mounts got me to thinking...I was wrong on my Tempest build, I originally did the 2LPLs and 4ML because I was, as usual, fixated with using all the hard points. While mastering it though I switched to a std 300, 3LPLs and 2ML. Though I hate the way the loan LPL looks in the center, I had better luck with this.

So you popped one of the LPL in the top hardpoints? Yeah, I get you on the looks but I'm game to try.

Hmmm.... I'll do some tweaking tonight with that.

I assume symmetrical LPL + ML in each arm?

[Bud Crue]

Morggo, on 30 September 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

So you popped one of the LPL in the top hardpoints? Yeah, I get you on the looks but I'm game to try.

Hmmm.... I'll do some tweaking tonight with that.

I assume symmetrical LPL + ML in each arm?

Yeah...only because I lack proper sword and board skills.

[Marauder3D]

Leveling my Archers was a very painful experience. They aren't the best mechs: hitbox, weapon choices, etc.

Most of all tho? LRMs just aren't fun. At all. So boring. So unless you want to SRM/Laser, I would skip the Tempest.

[Dee Eight]

Tempests are basically like the Cata 0XP except energy+missile instead of energy+ballistic. They're the same mass, same engine rating limit, same height, some weapon quirks... The Cata gets minor agility quirks though and has stronger structure buffs. I own both and enjoy using both (though my fave Archer is my Archangel 5W).

Marauder3D, on 30 September 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Leveling my Archers was a very painful experience. They aren't the best mechs: hitbox, weapon choices, etc.

Most of all tho? LRMs just aren't fun. At all. So boring. So unless you want to SRM/Laser, I would skip the Tempest.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Which LRMs did you try and level with ? My 5W rocketed its way to expert and is now half way to mastered. I'm typically making 2k XP per match with it.

[Chados]

I have both and like the Jester better. It's just so fragile now, tho.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Tempest is an Archer, so it is decidedly meh at best, if you can run it with a standard engine it can do some work but it is cursed by being designed really really badly.

Jester? Jester is a murder machine.

As for the Phract? It is a horrid mech, I wanted to like it after I got the 0XP but by the stars it is just bad. Some can make it work but in general it is one of the worst heavies in the game due to it has all of it's weapons slung so low below the cockpit that you will often derp your payload into a wall or the ground if you aren't in open flat terrain firing at someone also on the same plane.

Want to love the Phract but, yeah, it like the Archer, the Phract needs a redo on the design.

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 03 October 2016 - 10:00 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Appogee, on 30 September 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

Thanks for your advice. It's a pity you had to be such a d1c5 about providing it, but hey, it seems good advice anyway.

Thank you everyone else, especially those who managed to provide advice without being a douche.

That's sort of typical for Sader, he definitely doesn't give comp players a good name, but he isn't wrong here the Jester is hands down the better mech.

As for the 0XP, once I decided to run it asym I got much better results than when I tried to run it with meds, running 2 LPL and an AC20 all on the same side gives you a lot of mileage out of it. Still not the same mech it used to be though, back before there were as many options as we have now.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 October 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[Appogee]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 October 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

As for the 0XP, once I decided to run it asym I got much better results than when I tried to run it with meds, running 2 LPL and an AC20 all on the same side gives you a lot of mileage out of it.

Thanks, seems like a much better build, I agree. I will refit my 0XP and give it another shot.

EDIT: Looks like I last ran with Gauss + 2PPC. But of course Gauss in the side torso is a high risk strategy.

Edited by Appogee, 03 October 2016 - 11:39 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Well I run my 0XP with a 340XL so the side torso risk is there regardless of the ballistic weapon. I use mine with a gauss and about 5 tons of ammo with MLs for the energy complement. It hauls *** around the battlefield to different sniper spots, and with the range module I'm optimal to 825 meters and still dealing 10 damage at 1650 meters. With a low firing signature and 2300 mps velocity I can hit someone three or four times before they even get an idea where to maybe look, and by then I'm on the move to a new spot. I especially like hunting ravens 3Ls with it. They'll usually stop to make sure the ERLLs beam goes all onto the target mech, not splashed across the map and that makes them vulnerable to my gauss.

[Mycrus]

Appogee, on 30 September 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

I have some spare MC and I think I may as well spend it on a IS Hero.

I'm drawn to the Tempest because it's the only IS Heavy with ECM (except for 0XP, which is an awful Mech).

I know Jester has a lot of fans. But I have 250 Mechs, so yet another one with predominantly energy hardpoints isn't so appealing.

For me this purchase is about adding something a little different to my collection. Which of the two Mechs would you advise on that basis?

Played the jester a lot... with the rescale its easier to get side torsoed... you have to unlearn torso twisting and load armor front heavy (like 1pt rear)