97 replies to this topic

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

RedDragon, on 17 October 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

Lol. That reminds me of that Sout Park episode Obama vs. McCain. Funny and yet disturbing to see that there are people who really act like that.
No, the world will not end either way. The worst thing that can happen is that Trump gets voted and there will be 4 years of lock-up in the US, in a time where they just can't afford this. Trump is a bag full of hot air and will get vetoed by congress everytime he want's to commit a major idiocy.

You shouldn't lump me in with randoms who say "the world will end if Hillary is elected" without knowing much exposition or details to put things into perspective.

I'm the guy who said obamacare would make healthcare in the united states more expensive since 2007-2008. I predicted general motors would file for bankruptcy years before it happened.

Many acknowledge there has never been a Presidential election as controversial, as desperate and with as much widespread corruption as the 2016 elections. The reason for this is -- THERE HAS NEVER BEEN SO MUCH AT STAKE, in an election. Literally the fate of the united states is hanging in the balance.

If you want I can discuss it more and maybe some of you will go from laughing to crying when you realize there are a lot of facts and history that supports what I'm saying. I've never been the guy to randomly say silly things without being able to back up what I say. You have me confused with someone else *************.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 17 October 2016 - 11:32 PM, said:

HAHAHAHAHA

I think my ribs are cracking. Yeah dude whatever you say.

Oh wait your not joking. I'd sooner blow myself up with a hand grenade than vote for Trump.

What's wrong with Trump? He's the only candidate acknowledging the real issues americans must contend with imo. That makes people hate him--he's constantly dredging up the unpleasant facts many who live in denial would prefer to pretend don't exist.

Anywayz, Trump tax cuts on his website drop income taxes from 30% down to 6% for the lowest income tax bracket. That's a good reason to support Trump if nothing else.

Heffay, on 18 October 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:

I thought that's why we elected Obama? What happened? I could have SWORN "the united states will end" was promised to me back in 2008 and 2012. WHERE IS YOUR NO MORE AMERICA PROMISE??

Obama started out legit. He tried to pass real reforms that would benefit the american people.

The problem with Obama's administration was, whenever politicians put a policy on the table that was destructive to the united states -- americans always supported it. Americans could always be influenced by the media into supporting policies that were extremely bad for americans. That still hasn't changed although a lot of people have woken up.

Americans support all of the bad policies & none of the good policies. If you want an example of this, americans support Hillary. Hillary supports big tax hikes. Tax hikes are a destructive policy for the american people particularly the poor since taxes do have a trickle down affect and tend to affect the poorest americans the most. Trump supports tax cuts for the poor and middle class. This is a bit of an oversimplification, but more or less every policy can be compared in this way with Hillary suggesting things that are outright destructive to americans while Trump proposes things that would benefit americans. With many choosing to support Hillary's destructive policies over Trump's beneficial ones.

In the end, Obama gave up on the america that had given up on itself. He couldn't fight americans tripping over themselves to support things that screwed themselves. I don't blame Obama for that. I'm not anti democrat or pro anything. It would be nice if people realized they can't continue to support stupid things forever, then blame a politician when things don't go the way they want it to.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 18 October 2016 - 11:43 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

I Zeratul I, on 18 October 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

It would be nice if people realized they can't continue to support stupid things forever, then blame a politician when things don't go the way they want it to.

True, but do they really support or are there already very few data miners at work - that ask five people and interpolate the opinion of the rest?
It's always a good morning when the radio acknowledged a new statistic of a university or else.

I still await the day they say: a new statistic proofs: "breathing will kill you"

[RedDragon]

I Zeratul I, on 18 October 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

Americans support all of the bad policies & none of the good policies. If you want an example of this, americans support Hillary. Hillary supports big tax hikes. Tax hikes are a destructive policy for the american people particularly the poor since taxes do have a trickle down affect and tend to affect the poorest americans the most. Trump supports tax cuts for the poor and middle class. This is a bit of an oversimplification, but more or less every policy can be compared in this way with Hillary suggesting things that are outright destructive to americans while Trump proposes things that would benefit americans. With many choosing to support Hillary's destructive policies over Trump's beneficial ones.

I ... really don't know where you're getting your info from. Trump promised to cut taxes for small businesses, then he went back on this because the national debt would be raised a lot by it, while he still promised certain associations that the cut would come to secure their votes. As always, he just tells people what they want to hear.
What's more important is that Trump wants to give the upper 1% huge tax cuts (eliminating estate tax for example, which would hugely benefit only wealthy guys like himself) while Hillary wants to increase taxes for the most wealthy people.

https://www.washingt...1-of-americans/

Edited by RedDragon, 19 October 2016 - 01:42 AM.

[Heffay]

I Zeratul I, on 18 October 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

The problem with Obama's administration was, whenever politicians put a policy on the table that was destructive to the united states -- americans always supported it.

"Destructive to the United States"?

/looks around

Are you sure you're in the United States? Because things are looking really damn good around here right now.

[Domoneky]

this is still going? hmm.... ok then! Continue!

[Sylonce]

I Zeratul I, on 18 October 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

What's wrong with Trump? He's the only candidate acknowledging the real issues americans must contend with imo. That makes people hate him--he's constantly dredging up the unpleasant facts many who live in denial would prefer to pretend don't exist.

What isn't wrong with him?

I think it's clear that a lot of Trump's followers are unhappy with current day politics and the way the country is run. That is pretty understandable. Your country will probably benefit from having someone who isn't a career politician run the show... with the exception of Trump.

I watch the Donald on the news a lot because he happens to be my daily entertainment for the evenings. Most of the issues he acknowledges are either made up, false, or twisted in such a way that makes him sound like some sort of a champion to believers who cannot tell if he is lying. All for the self-serving nature of him climbing up the food chain (at your expense if you believe him). And yeah, he lies a lot, and I can only wince at anyone who dare claims he is honest or trustworthy, or thinking him capable of implementing policy without driving your country into ruin in spite of this. Even if you don't like his political opponent, there are still other options to choose from.

Edited by Sylonce, 19 October 2016 - 08:18 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

RedDragon, on 19 October 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

I ... really don't know where you're getting your info from. Trump promised to cut taxes for small businesses, then he went back on this because the national debt would be raised a lot by it, while he still promised certain associations that the cut would come to secure their votes. As always, he just tells people what they want to hear.
What's more important is that Trump wants to give the upper 1% huge tax cuts (eliminating estate tax for example, which would hugely benefit only wealthy guys like himself) while Hillary wants to increase taxes for the most wealthy people.

https://www.washingt...1-of-americans/

This is Trump's proposed income tax plan from his website: https://www.donaldjt...icies/tax-plan/



Single earners under $75,000 per year would pay a 6% income tax. That's a massive tax break compared to the 30% or so they pay now. I don't see that represented on the chart you posted.

Google the term "estate tax". It doesn't mean what the media has misled people into thinking.

One issue I see with that chart is it projecting out to 2025 -- 5 year past the next President's term. They could make up any random numbers they wanted to under those conditions since we don't know who is running for President in 2020.

Obama said he would raise taxes on the rich when he ran in 2008 and again in 2012. He also said he would fix healthcare and make it more affordable. None of those things happened. Hillary comes from the same school as Obama & it is very unlikely she has any intent of raising taxes on the wealthy as the wealthy are Hillary's best friends & by far biggest contributors throughout her political career.

Trump on the other hand, funded a significant portion of his own campaign from his own pocket to not have those conflicts of interest.

Heffay, on 19 October 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

"Destructive to the United States"?

/looks around

Are you sure you're in the United States? Because things are looking really damn good around here right now.

I could say the same, if I didn't know the facts.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 19 October 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Actually I think you missed the Presidential debate where he literally avoided answering every single question asked to him.

Also how does Trump plan to make up for those tax cuts? If you take away money one way you have to make up for it another way. Taxes are how this nation is fueled. Also if you are going to vote for someone just because its cheaper, then vote for a ******* Communist. Everything is shared then and it gets rid of the money problem altogether (in theory). So vote for a commy.

Also yeah he is undredging unpleasant facts. Like how he likes sexually assaulting women. How he wants to shoot Iranian families. How he wants to violate the Constitution and take away the rights of homosexuals to get married. He wants to defund Planned Parenthood, he wants to take away the rights of women, he wants to do a {Godwin's Law} and mark Muslims, he wants to build a wall that will cost billions upon billions and will not solve the problems, should I go on?

Especially the wall lmao. It is really sad because his entire wall can be defeated by mankind's second invention... rope.

I'd rather put up with a President and taxes than see people losing their rights.

The way obamacare is structured, america spends $1 trillion dollars per year to make healthcare more expensive. If Trump repeals obamacare, that gives him near to a 1$ trillion dollar surplus. That frees up funds for tax cuts and other things. Spending on behalf of the federal government is extremely wasteful. Government programs are notoriously bloated. With even a modicum of streamlining a lot of good could be achieved. Unfortunately for america, that isn't the likely scenario. Foreign bankers likely want america's overspending to continue until we bankrupt ourselves and our country.

Communism in cuba, china and the soviet union were all funded by foreign bankers with an agenda. Neither communism nor socialism ever represented *the people*. They represented the interests of the bankers who provided communist and socialist parties with funding and support. Now in the year 2016, those same foreign bankers have infiltrated the united states educational systems and are indoctrinating students into pro socialist / pro communist garbage. How? Through politicians like Hillary who would gladly sell out their own country those living in it to foreign interests & have been doing it for decades. I know students enrolled in economics courses right now who acknowledge economics professors teach "capitalism was responsible for the economic troubles of 2008" -- a blatant lie / anti capitalist / pro communist & socialist propaganda.

Anyways foreign bankers did fund russia's "revolution" which led to it being a communist / atheist country. Then russia turned around and said fk you and decided to embrace capitalism and christianity instead. So now foreign bankers are using their influence with Hillary and the media to promote a war between the united states and russia to make an example of russia for overturning the status quo while they quietly promote communism/atheism/socialim in america's educational systems.

International bankers have been funding their pro atheism/communism/socialism agenda for near to a century now. As the united states comes under their influence, america has begun to fund iran and other totalitarian regimes. Eventually bankers could own everything and everyone. We'll see a world that is completely atheist / communist. That's the agenda bankers have pushed for near to a century now & like they say history repeats itself.

That could represent the real danger and the one more or less everyone is blind to.

Sylonce, on 19 October 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

What isn't wrong with him?

I think it's clear that a lot of Trump's followers are unhappy with current day politics and the way the country is run. That is pretty understandable. Your country will probably benefit from having someone who isn't a career politician run the show... with the exception of Trump.

I watch the Donald on the news a lot because he happens to be my daily entertainment for the evenings. Most of the issues he acknowledges are either made up, false, or twisted in such a way that makes him sound like some sort of a champion to believers who cannot tell if he is lying. All for the self-serving nature of him climbing up the food chain (at your expense if you believe him). And yeah, he lies a lot, and I can only wince at anyone who dare claims he is honest or trustworthy, or thinking him capable of implementing policy without driving your country into ruin in spite of this. Even if you don't like his political opponent, there are still other options to choose from.

The issues Trump acknowledges are real.

He's the only candidate acknowledging real issues, things candidates like Hillary and other career politicians try to sweep under the rug.

Unfortunately the odd 2 minutes candidates are given to reply to question won't overturn decades of abysmal education and many not having the time or will to stay informed or think independently on issues.

If anyone lies, its Hillary. At least half of the things that came out of her mouth during the debates were blatant lies. Trump could do a better job explaining himself and getting through to people who are uninformed. He is right most of the time even if he doesn't do the best job getting his point across.

[RedDragon]

I Zeratul I, on 20 October 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

If anyone lies, its Hillary. At least half of the things that came out of her mouth during the debates were blatant lies. Trump could do a better job explaining himself and getting through to people who are uninformed. He is right most of the time even if he doesn't do the best job getting his point across.

Please, you have to be kidding. Many websites/people/organisations already checked the facts on all those claims of Clinton and Trump, and the result is that on average, about 30% of the things Clinton said are provably wrong. Which makes here average for a politician.
Trump on the other hand lied on about fricking 70% of the statements he made. this is not even "bending the truth" anymore, this is a case of pathological lying.
Look it up or check the facts yourself.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 20 October 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

He won't believe anything that is against his world views.

And that is your problem right there.

There used to be a time when facts were actually facts. But years and years of one-sided journalism, paid scientific research and powerpoint have brought us to a point where "believe" is again more important than "knowing" things.

Anybody here remembers this?
https://en.wikipedia...f_Enlightenment

I watched the second and third presidential debate (even though it was late in the night here in Europe) and my thoughts were: Congratulations, whoever put the U.S. voters in a position to having to chose between these two did quite a good job.
You are screwed either way!

For Europe however, Trump would be the lesser evil. He will most likely be protectionist and passive in foreign politics.
Clinton will most likely further escalate the situation in Syria ("no flight zone" - does she even know what that means...) which could very well lead to a full scale war in that region and in Europe subsequently.

Edit: If Clinton wins, we will get Victoria "**** the EU" Nuland as secretary of state. I am sure our spineless politicians will figure out a way to fit their heads into her butt.

Edited by Sthtopokeon, 21 October 2016 - 05:44 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

RedDragon, on 20 October 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

Please, you have to be kidding. Many websites/people/organisations already checked the facts on all those claims of Clinton and Trump, and the result is that on average, about 30% of the things Clinton said are provably wrong. Which makes here average for a politician.
Trump on the other hand lied on about fricking 70% of the statements he made. this is not even "bending the truth" anymore, this is a case of pathological lying.
Look it up or check the facts yourself.

Sites like factcheck.org have been proven to lie consistently as of the last election in 2012.. Snopes was caught lying about how much of the clinton foundation's donations go to charitable causes back in august.

Remember when you said the estate tax only benefits the wealthy? Google estate tax. Look it up. That's one more point the media has lied to you about.

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 20 October 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

He won't. He is deluded. He has already stated that Scientists aren't trustworthy and that science is only to serve politics and prove social points. He has literally stated as much in several threads we debated in.

He won't believe anything that is against his world views.

What I said was for science to be reliable it needs to be free from conflicts of interest brought on by profiteering motive or political agenda. In cases like climate change where the heartland institute funds research with profiteering conflicts of interest, science can be very unreliable.

For someone who talks about science as much as Marack Drock does, he doesn't seem very capable at using it considering he can't seem to accurately quote people in context.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 21 October 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

Oh yeah cause the age of enlightment wasn't one sided at all, You know all those witch burnings.

That was more in medieval times.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Here are my 2 paise, as someone whose opinion don't really matter to Americans.

We had our own "bogeyman" (as the media would want you to know): Our current Prime Minister

Accused of perpetrating/encouraging/enabling the 2002 riots even after the Supreme Court ruled that he did all in his power to keep it under control. Incidentally, the US denied him a visa over that, and last year Obama was the chief guest to our Republic Day parade.

Acccused of being super cozy with Ambani and Adani. (Adani got cheap land from the govt. Happens throught our industrial belt. Completely lawful, encourages big businesses to expand - They don't get tax cuts).

You know how he won? Anti-incumbency/anti-corruption sentiments and good campaigning. Social media campaigns (for the first time in Indian election history), non-stop rallies and no-****, "from the heart" speeches. He even won with the biggest seat margin in decades. Historic turnout? Expect the "underdog" to profit.

His huge promise in 100 days? " I'll bring back all the black money. " (Black Money is the income tax that should have been paid)

It's been two years, but that didn't happen.
But he did a good enough job for most of us.

http://www.dnaindia....jaitley-2260406

15 billion dollars over two years.

He has a 75% approval rating a few months back despite not doing anything big yet. It's almost definitely at the same level due to GST being passed and the recent handling of the Uri attack.

You would think he's hated by the businessmen for threatening them. Not really. India went up a lot in "Ease of doing business" rankings because he streamlined the FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) and removed some antiquated laws. Big business loves him, and so do the people.

He's not been a right-wing extremist as the media "feared". He'd be a liberal in the US. That's just how our country rolls, and we don't give a ****.

TL;DR -- Anti-incumbency/Anti-elite sentiment is high around the world. You need to milk that, and just be decent to be popular. You don't need to be a hero like Lincoln. Just be decent.

Sure, things work differently in different countries, but politics is always the same s***show. I have no doubt Trump will significantly tone down himself if he gets the office. It's already happening.

Some reading if you're interested.
http://indiatoday.in...i/1/742910.html
http://blogs.wsj.com...modis-programs/

[Gremlich Johns]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 02 October 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

And as I said before, why do we need said freedoms? Europe doesn't and it does 100 times better than us.

You're always such a tool - how gun control was used by those nasty guys in Germany
That's just one thing the Socialists (The so-called Progressives in our country who might as well be National Socialists) will attempt to do going forward as they gain power. Europe's collective economy sucks, btw, and Merkel is having serious issues with sustaining Germany's Socialist policies. Not conflating guns with economic success, but the Socialists will do what is needed to assure power and that includes eliminating the freedom to protect the Country from being taken over by policies contrary to the Constitution. They plan to raise wages while at the same time raising taxes - net gain to us? Zero or even a loss. PLus, under them there will be two classes - us and them (like all the other loser Socialist countries). That's why we need those freedoms.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 23 October 2016 - 07:52 AM.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 22 October 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

Salem Witch trials. Look em up. And no Medieval times was more "slay all non-Christians" and House warfare as well as crusades. The Witch burning, hanging etc all happened during the Age of Enlightenment. Things like the Spanish Inquisition (Renaissance to the end of the Enlightenment age) etc all fall into the Age of Enlightenment.

try again. The Age of Enlightenment was ******.

Spanish Inquisition partly fell into AoE because it came to an end then. Through the achievements of the AoE!

Salem: Never heard of these before, tbh.

Point is, you can't value the achievements of the AoE because you are from the US. You started out as a republic, you never had to overcome feudal systems (being a colony doesn't count). When the US were founded, your constitution reflected many values that were achieved through the AoE. So everytime you praise your constitution, you are in fact praising the AoE.

Gremlich Johns, on 23 October 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Germany's Socialist policies

Nothing about Germany's current policy is socialistic. What is left today of public health service and social security is eroding fast.

Edited by Sthtopokeon, 23 October 2016 - 04:03 PM.

[iLLcapitan]

Alex Jones is strong in this threat.

[RedDragon]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 23 October 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

There is nothing to thank about the AoE. Times nowadays are superior in almost every way.

Erm ... you DO realise that modern times can only be superior because of the achievements made during that period?

[RedDragon]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 24 October 2016 - 02:33 AM, said:

Doesn't mean I have to thank it. Especially when most achievements made in the age revolved around murdering indigenous people groups.

The only thing good to come out of the Age of Enlightenment was the music, and that is the only thing I thank it for. Everything else was barbaric, 9/10 times.

Then I would advise you to read a book on the topic. Or better yet, a lot of books.

[Tina Benoit]

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