Melee Combat In Mwo
#1
Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:01 AM
For battlemechs with hand actuators, this could open up the options of punches, and of course grappling. As well as things like jump jet knockdowns, ect. Adding a WHOLE new dynamic to the game, that does fit in battletech.
Imagine driving your nova, jump jetting on top of an enemy atlas. grabbing that fat skull and blasting laser volleys into it.
Sprinting up to an enemy mech in your hunchy and superman punching it.
Shredding apart an enemy mech with the dragons battleclaw.
Its a massive shame to have hand actuator's, claws, ect. and never using them.
#2
Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:57 AM
Knock downs are also missed greatly and a number of my friends left when they were removed. They claimed it was only temporary. I think enough time has passed that we can safely say that was a lie.
#3
Posted 12 October 2016 - 03:48 PM
#4
Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:37 PM
#5
Posted 13 October 2016 - 08:05 PM
If you compare to WoT, where the tanks have geometry and stuff, effective armour depending of positioning and angles of your surface, ramming,... And in comparison, here, in MWO Mechs running into each other slightly slow down before slipping through each other.
Only way they can interact is being bags of weapons throwing their fire on foreign bags of hitpoints.
I do think it is possible to implement melee a simple way, as a very short range "weapon" attack with a different animation and the Mech not being able to shoot during it's execution. It probably would be and improvement, but I'm not sure it would actually feel real.
Edited by Kuaron, 14 October 2016 - 04:17 AM.
#6
Posted 14 October 2016 - 09:19 AM
#7
Posted 15 October 2016 - 07:19 PM
This topic is great and all, but means nothing til the knockdown system is re-implemented.
XkrX Dragoon, on 12 October 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:
For battlemechs with hand actuators, this could open up the options of punches, and of course grappling. As well as things like jump jet knockdowns, ect. Adding a WHOLE new dynamic to the game, that does fit in battletech.
Imagine driving your nova, jump jetting on top of an enemy atlas. grabbing that fat skull and blasting laser volleys into it.
Sprinting up to an enemy mech in your hunchy and superman punching it.
Shredding apart an enemy mech with the dragons battleclaw.
Its a massive shame to have hand actuator's, claws, ect. and never using them.
Edited by HATER 1, 16 October 2016 - 07:52 AM.
#8
Posted 17 October 2016 - 08:53 AM
Collision !! we need knockdown !!
#9
Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:09 PM
In all honestly if I was "MWO King" I'd limit physical attacks to the mechs that are "designed for it" such as the well known Hatchetman and of course the Kodiak.
Collision damage happens in MWO but it is so weak.
I remember that sometimes you could get kills in MW3 by ramming someone who had no armor left. Some people even used to DFA! That was great fun
#10
Posted 20 October 2016 - 05:01 AM
So, how powerful should these melee attacks be? I say, if this is implemented, it should be a last resort kind of attack. Not more powerful than conventional weapons. An axe, even if swung by an assault, would never achieve the kinetic energy of an AC of any size.
Being able to inflict any serious damage on significantly larger mechs would also put huge strain on the attacking mech, damaging itself as well.
Then it’s the weapons issued. Mechs with weapons on their arms or other parts used for ramming would need to suffer some serious chance of critical damage to these weapons.
I really think melee in this game could end up destroying much of the mech sim, and make it even more of a quick brawl robot arcade game. People are playing solo amongst others with tunnel vision enough as it is, this could lead to even more blind rushing for some cool solo player experience with huge negative impact on team play.
#11
Posted 20 October 2016 - 08:15 AM
Think of medieval knight armour:
They almost couldn't harm each other while armoured and tried to wrestle the opponent down to reach a gap and use a dagger.
So, Melee would be either something similar to MGs only harming structure but not armour (consistent to lore, btw.) or need te reimplementation of Mechs falling to the ground and stuff for a broader application.
#12
Posted 21 October 2016 - 04:44 AM
Kuaron, on 20 October 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:
Think of medieval knight armour:
They almost couldn't harm each other while armoured and tried to wrestle the opponent down to reach a gap and use a dagger.
So, Melee would be either something similar to MGs only harming structure but not armour (consistent to lore, btw.) or need te reimplementation of Mechs falling to the ground and stuff for a broader application.
I know this is lore, mye fears is related to how melee is implemented in most games today. I'm one of those not believeing MWO would benifit from extencive melee combat, where melee would be the prefered option for close combat.
Having used a real steel chain armor hit by a sword I can assure you it hurst alot. Even if the sword did not penetrate, it cracked my ribs. Stabbing hard with the sword, we were able to penetrate both iron chains and iron plates like those used in armors.
However, a 4 year old with a butterknife would stand little chance against me with an axe, no matter what armor he wears, even with the first blow. Even so, if that 4 year old had a gun...
And in most game, this is turned up side down. You are rewarded for the ability to close in on enemies with a instant knife kill.
#13
Posted 21 October 2016 - 08:41 AM
would be cool to see it happening one day.. some day... in near future... future... century... or the next...
#14
Posted 21 October 2016 - 10:26 AM
Serpentbane, on 21 October 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:
I am sure, introduction of melee combat would clear the way for introducing Mech variants with actual Melee weapons. Like something long and even for thrusting and piercing armour. But most are armed with fists. With a fist, you still win against your 4 year old with a knife, even if you spent all your Gauss ammo trying to hit him running circles around you.
I honestly don't think MWO would implement melee the same way as games with much shorter TTK, where getting close is something to actually be rewarded for. Of course this would be hilarious, but not even PGI could fail that much.
#15
Posted 22 October 2016 - 12:08 AM
However, I have no idea how they'd pull it off. I've seen fan projects try to make a mechwarrior game that played more like Battletech, but while most of the game worked OK (If buggy due to being a one-man fan project in blender), I found that there really was no way to comfortably work punching/kicking mechanics into the game. By default it was using keys like F10 and F11. With ASWD there's really nothing I could think of that would work to make melee feel intuitive.
#16
Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:09 PM
#17
Posted 20 December 2016 - 02:01 AM
Then with the state of the game as it is and has been for quite awhile now I have to wonder why anyone would want to give up 15+ tons to bring an axe to a gun fight. It is so hard to even play current brawler builds with all the 'lets hide and poke' that goes on, but admittedly when you are able to actually get a brawler build into brawl range it is amazingly fun to blow to pieces that ppc poker (1 out of 5 or so matches at best in the pug realm and I would imagine it to be even harder in the pre-made side of the game). I mean my current Marauder 2C-D is about the only heavy+ brawler that I can often enough get into brawl range and get more than a kill or more than 300 dmg in a match... now I'm not complaining I just adapt to the environment and don't run a true brawler build on it but man do I want to stick a uac20 and lbx20 on it (I've done it already and it's amazing... again if I can actually get into brawl range without already being torn to bits by the poke poke).
Would I like to see an Atlas grab hold of my Spider-5D and swing me like a club against some other mech bashing me to pieces and damaging the heck out of a teammate of mine? Sure that'd be funny as all can be. Do I think it is a reasonable expectation for this game and especially the environment? Not at all. I'd rather see the current developers get 6mo.s from any new mechanics, mechs, maps, etc and instead comb through the code and learn it so issues like the 'ghosting' through other mechs, hit reg (which I quickly admit is a heck of a lot better than it was at one time), hit boxes, etc can actually be fixed once and for all.
#18
Posted 15 April 2017 - 11:31 AM
The best we can hope for is mechs that have melee weapons on their stock builds like the hatchetman
#19
Posted 12 May 2017 - 01:46 PM
Star Commander Horse, on 18 October 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:
Congratulations Jason Youngblood, you wisely chose a mech with hands so that you could shovel rubble up that Kurita scums exhaust hole.
All mechs with hands are melee mechs, the ones with weapons are just impatient and didnt want to have to shoot someones arm off before they could start clubbing people to death like a boss.
Even if you dont have hands you could still attempt a glorious death from above move.
Melee is awesome.
Guffrus
#20
Posted 14 May 2017 - 07:10 PM
For shame, you have missed the point of my post completely.
Jason Youndblood is a character in an old battletech game called the Cresent Hawks Inception which featured training missions one of which was was a task to retrieve rubble from the training grounds and you had to choose a mech with hands to collect it.
Furthermore if you look at the tabletop rules you will find that mechs with hands are able to pick up the severed limbs of mechs and use them as clubbing weapons in melee.
and just incase you missed it
Death from above is from tabletop too, and yes your legs take falling damage, but the guy underneath you takes damage to the upper body, perhaps even the cockpit. A good trade if you are an assault mech with plenty of leg armour to spare.
Quote:
By deviating from lore to make MechWarrior mainstream
P.G.I. destroyed the very foundation of what made MechWarrior great to begin with.
R.I.P. MechWarrior franchise.
You are such a purist you even complain about deviations from lore in your signature but you dont know tabletop rules or get references to other parts of the franchise?
wtf?
and btw pgi have done an amazing job of translating battletech into real time and the rules are way better in mwo than tabletop.
All the stuff that sucks, like ghost heat is because, brace yourself, the tabletop game is actually rubbish and pgi is having to work with a broken system.
We are now able to design mechs which have individual character (until they ruin it with the new skill system presumably) and use all sorts of weapon systems instead of simply fitting as many medium lasers and heat sinks as we could before topping up with engine.
Also which lore are you even refering to?
I thought that battletech had a history of IP problems because it doesnt have its own lore and core because its all owned by a million different companies which is why we cant get anything done and had to wait so damn long for this game in the first place?!
But getting back to the hand damage point you raise:
If you want to take armour off my arms and make me risk a critical hit to my hand actuators when i plung my mechs fist into the chest of my enemy and tear out his still spinning gyroscope and show it to him, you carry on, i will make that trade all day long.
Guffrus
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