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Melee Combat In Mwo


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Poll: Should there be hand to hand combat? (242 member(s) have cast votes)

Should there be hand to hand combat?

  1. Yes (200 votes [82.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 82.64%

  2. No (42 votes [17.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.36%

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#1 MechTech Dragoon

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:01 AM

Now, i know its NEVER been in a mech warrior game before (to my knowledge) But!!!! Battle mechs have hand actuators for a reason! its not just for style points! Aside from that, this would open up the options for a very wide range of melee dedicated mechs that exist IN THIS timeline already. Chopping up battlemechs with a gigantic axe? yes please.

For battlemechs with hand actuators, this could open up the options of punches, and of course grappling. As well as things like jump jet knockdowns, ect. Adding a WHOLE new dynamic to the game, that does fit in battletech.
Imagine driving your nova, jump jetting on top of an enemy atlas. grabbing that fat skull and blasting laser volleys into it.
Sprinting up to an enemy mech in your hunchy and superman punching it.
Shredding apart an enemy mech with the dragons battleclaw.

Its a massive shame to have hand actuator's, claws, ect. and never using them.

#2 Kaptain

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 09:57 AM

Hand to hand combat would be great... unfortunately PGI can't keep talented programmers around so this is unlikely to be added. Evidence? Russ straight admitted the reason we still have clan auto cannon place holders is because the person who wrote the weapon code is no longer with the company.

Knock downs are also missed greatly and a number of my friends left when they were removed. They claimed it was only temporary. I think enough time has passed that we can safely say that was a lie.

#3 Hoffenstein

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 03:48 PM

I want to re-enact that famous picture of an Atlas's fist smashing through a Warhawk cockpit. Epic. Win.

#4 GI Journalist

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 04:37 PM

The collision code still needs to be fixed. I'm tired of 'Mechs passing through each other when the code can't resolve the position of two objects entering the same space.

#5 Kuaron

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 08:05 PM

Yes, I'm not sure if it's not an engine thing, but it's one of the main reasons for the "bag of weapons" feeling the Mechs currently have.
If you compare to WoT, where the tanks have geometry and stuff, effective armour depending of positioning and angles of your surface, ramming,... And in comparison, here, in MWO Mechs running into each other slightly slow down before slipping through each other.
Only way they can interact is being bags of weapons throwing their fire on foreign bags of hitpoints.

I do think it is possible to implement melee a simple way, as a very short range "weapon" attack with a different animation and the Mech not being able to shoot during it's execution. It probably would be and improvement, but I'm not sure it would actually feel real.

Edited by Kuaron, 14 October 2016 - 04:17 AM.


#6 The Unstoppable Puggernaut

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 09:19 AM

This will make this game famous !!

#7 HATER 1

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 07:19 PM

I am all for it, but..............

This topic is great and all, but means nothing til the knockdown system is re-implemented.


View PostXkrX Dragoon, on 12 October 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

Now, i know its NEVER been in a mech warrior game before (to my knowledge) But!!!! Battle mechs have hand actuators for a reason! its not just for style points! Aside from that, this would open up the options for a very wide range of melee dedicated mechs that exist IN THIS timeline already. Chopping up battlemechs with a gigantic axe? yes please.

For battlemechs with hand actuators, this could open up the options of punches, and of course grappling. As well as things like jump jet knockdowns, ect. Adding a WHOLE new dynamic to the game, that does fit in battletech.
Imagine driving your nova, jump jetting on top of an enemy atlas. grabbing that fat skull and blasting laser volleys into it.
Sprinting up to an enemy mech in your hunchy and superman punching it.
Shredding apart an enemy mech with the dragons battleclaw.

Its a massive shame to have hand actuator's, claws, ect. and never using them.

Edited by HATER 1, 16 October 2016 - 07:52 AM.


#8 Damnedtroll

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 08:53 AM

Pushing, kicking, punching, hatchet are integral part ofthe board game. Physical attack are great for desperate attack or if u have a battlmech built for this purpose, aka hatcherman, berserker, axeman, etc... u can also take tree off and club another mech...

Collision !! we need knockdown !!

#9 a gaijin

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:09 PM

Agree with you all. Knockdowns are a cool feature.
In all honestly if I was "MWO King" I'd limit physical attacks to the mechs that are "designed for it" such as the well known Hatchetman and of course the Kodiak.

Collision damage happens in MWO but it is so weak.
I remember that sometimes you could get kills in MW3 by ramming someone who had no armor left. Some people even used to DFA! That was great fun :)

#10 Serpentbane

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 05:01 AM

Skeptical. I don’t like the “I can’t kill you with five bullets but you can kill me with a single slice with a knife” mechanics of certain other games. Yes, it does work well in some of those, but imagine how often you get really close to other mechs in this game. More often than not we end up within melee range.

So, how powerful should these melee attacks be? I say, if this is implemented, it should be a last resort kind of attack. Not more powerful than conventional weapons. An axe, even if swung by an assault, would never achieve the kinetic energy of an AC of any size.

Being able to inflict any serious damage on significantly larger mechs would also put huge strain on the attacking mech, damaging itself as well.

Then it’s the weapons issued. Mechs with weapons on their arms or other parts used for ramming would need to suffer some serious chance of critical damage to these weapons.

I really think melee in this game could end up destroying much of the mech sim, and make it even more of a quick brawl robot arcade game. People are playing solo amongst others with tunnel vision enough as it is, this could lead to even more blind rushing for some cool solo player experience with huge negative impact on team play.

#11 Kuaron

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Posted 20 October 2016 - 08:15 AM

I disagree with those vague fears.

Think of medieval knight armour:
They almost couldn't harm each other while armoured and tried to wrestle the opponent down to reach a gap and use a dagger.

So, Melee would be either something similar to MGs only harming structure but not armour (consistent to lore, btw.) or need te reimplementation of Mechs falling to the ground and stuff for a broader application.

#12 Serpentbane

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 04:44 AM

View PostKuaron, on 20 October 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

I disagree with those vague fears.

Think of medieval knight armour:
They almost couldn't harm each other while armoured and tried to wrestle the opponent down to reach a gap and use a dagger.

So, Melee would be either something similar to MGs only harming structure but not armour (consistent to lore, btw.) or need te reimplementation of Mechs falling to the ground and stuff for a broader application.

I know this is lore, mye fears is related to how melee is implemented in most games today. I'm one of those not believeing MWO would benifit from extencive melee combat, where melee would be the prefered option for close combat.

Having used a real steel chain armor hit by a sword I can assure you it hurst alot. Even if the sword did not penetrate, it cracked my ribs. Stabbing hard with the sword, we were able to penetrate both iron chains and iron plates like those used in armors.

However, a 4 year old with a butterknife would stand little chance against me with an axe, no matter what armor he wears, even with the first blow. Even so, if that 4 year old had a gun...

And in most game, this is turned up side down. You are rewarded for the ability to close in on enemies with a instant knife kill.

#13 norokelt

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 08:41 AM

ha, nice to see that I am not the only one that got that idea of melee fights :D

would be cool to see it happening one day.. some day... in near future... future... century... or the next...

#14 Kuaron

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 10:26 AM

View PostSerpentbane, on 21 October 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

Having used a real steel chain armor hit by a sword I can assure you it hurst alot. Even if the sword did not penetrate, it cracked my ribs. Stabbing hard with the sword, we were able to penetrate both iron chains and iron plates like those used in armors.


I am sure, introduction of melee combat would clear the way for introducing Mech variants with actual Melee weapons. Like something long and even for thrusting and piercing armour. But most are armed with fists. With a fist, you still win against your 4 year old with a knife, even if you spent all your Gauss ammo trying to hit him running circles around you. ;)

I honestly don't think MWO would implement melee the same way as games with much shorter TTK, where getting close is something to actually be rewarded for. Of course this would be hilarious, but not even PGI could fail that much.

#15 ice trey

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 12:08 AM

Would I be for it? Yes. Charges, Punching, Kicking, Pushing, DFAs, Hatches, Swords, the works. Especially if we're talking about Solaris 7, seeing melee weapons come into play would be hugely important to bringing that setting to life.

However, I have no idea how they'd pull it off. I've seen fan projects try to make a mechwarrior game that played more like Battletech, but while most of the game worked OK (If buggy due to being a one-man fan project in blender), I found that there really was no way to comfortably work punching/kicking mechanics into the game. By default it was using keys like F10 and F11. With ASWD there's really nothing I could think of that would work to make melee feel intuitive.

#16 TheArisen

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 04:09 PM

I'd love it if we could get the Berserker, Axeman, Hatchetman & Scarabas in the game with proper melee.

#17 Bellum Dominum

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 02:01 AM

I'm guessing most who have already commented were not around for dragon bowling (I just missed it apparently myself).

Then with the state of the game as it is and has been for quite awhile now I have to wonder why anyone would want to give up 15+ tons to bring an axe to a gun fight. It is so hard to even play current brawler builds with all the 'lets hide and poke' that goes on, but admittedly when you are able to actually get a brawler build into brawl range it is amazingly fun to blow to pieces that ppc poker :P (1 out of 5 or so matches at best in the pug realm and I would imagine it to be even harder in the pre-made side of the game). I mean my current Marauder 2C-D is about the only heavy+ brawler that I can often enough get into brawl range and get more than a kill or more than 300 dmg in a match... now I'm not complaining I just adapt to the environment and don't run a true brawler build on it but man do I want to stick a uac20 and lbx20 on it (I've done it already and it's amazing... again if I can actually get into brawl range without already being torn to bits by the poke poke).

Would I like to see an Atlas grab hold of my Spider-5D and swing me like a club against some other mech bashing me to pieces and damaging the heck out of a teammate of mine? Sure that'd be funny as all can be. Do I think it is a reasonable expectation for this game and especially the environment? Not at all. I'd rather see the current developers get 6mo.s from any new mechanics, mechs, maps, etc and instead comb through the code and learn it so issues like the 'ghosting' through other mechs, hit reg (which I quickly admit is a heck of a lot better than it was at one time), hit boxes, etc can actually be fixed once and for all.

#18 Khobai

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 11:31 AM

Adding punching/kicking animations to every single mech in the game is simply not feasible.

The best we can hope for is mechs that have melee weapons on their stock builds like the hatchetman

#19 Guffrus

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 01:46 PM

View PostStar Commander Horse, on 18 October 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

In all honestly if I was "MWO King" I'd limit physical attacks to the mechs that are "designed for it" such as the well known Hatchetman and of course the Kodiak.


Congratulations Jason Youngblood, you wisely chose a mech with hands so that you could shovel rubble up that Kurita scums exhaust hole.

All mechs with hands are melee mechs, the ones with weapons are just impatient and didnt want to have to shoot someones arm off before they could start clubbing people to death like a boss.

Even if you dont have hands you could still attempt a glorious death from above move.

Melee is awesome.

Guffrus

#20 Guffrus

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 07:10 PM

Oh commander Star Horse...

For shame, you have missed the point of my post completely.

Jason Youndblood is a character in an old battletech game called the Cresent Hawks Inception which featured training missions one of which was was a task to retrieve rubble from the training grounds and you had to choose a mech with hands to collect it.

Furthermore if you look at the tabletop rules you will find that mechs with hands are able to pick up the severed limbs of mechs and use them as clubbing weapons in melee.

and just incase you missed it

Death from above is from tabletop too, and yes your legs take falling damage, but the guy underneath you takes damage to the upper body, perhaps even the cockpit. A good trade if you are an assault mech with plenty of leg armour to spare.

Quote:

By deviating from lore to make MechWarrior mainstream
P.G.I. destroyed the very foundation of what made MechWarrior great to begin with.
R.I.P. MechWarrior franchise.

You are such a purist you even complain about deviations from lore in your signature but you dont know tabletop rules or get references to other parts of the franchise?
wtf?

and btw pgi have done an amazing job of translating battletech into real time and the rules are way better in mwo than tabletop.

All the stuff that sucks, like ghost heat is because, brace yourself, the tabletop game is actually rubbish and pgi is having to work with a broken system.

We are now able to design mechs which have individual character (until they ruin it with the new skill system presumably) and use all sorts of weapon systems instead of simply fitting as many medium lasers and heat sinks as we could before topping up with engine.

Also which lore are you even refering to?

I thought that battletech had a history of IP problems because it doesnt have its own lore and core because its all owned by a million different companies which is why we cant get anything done and had to wait so damn long for this game in the first place?!

But getting back to the hand damage point you raise:

If you want to take armour off my arms and make me risk a critical hit to my hand actuators when i plung my mechs fist into the chest of my enemy and tear out his still spinning gyroscope and show it to him, you carry on, i will make that trade all day long.

Guffrus





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