19 replies to this topic

[Nerokar]

Hi!

I started to play this game last month. And its great. One day I wanted to see my progress in Mechtoberfest Event and found my content page (https://mwomercs.com/profile/content).

"Active Player" is an interesting point for me as a new gamer because 2kk CB and a new bay are a lot for a newbe. The only requirement is to play 100 matches.

Yesterday I played my 105th match (counted all matches in my game mode statistic). But the content page still (after ~12h) shows "Active Player" as not completed. Do not every match count to this list?

Thanks for your help!

[Van mw]

"Eligibility statuses are updated daily at 10:00 AM PDT (5:00 PM UTC)."

[Nerokar]

Van mw, on 16 October 2016 - 11:22 PM, said:

"Eligibility statuses are updated daily at 10:00 AM PDT (5:00 PM UTC)."

hmmm jea... i... need to read more carefully... thanks m8

[Koniving]

Might I also recommend spending a little less than 7 dollars on just a smidgen of MC?
If done before 10 AM PST tomorrow, you'll qualify for the BJ-2(L) (Blackjack) Medium Mech which comes with a 30% cbill bonus and is the only missile-capable Blackjack variant (a standard, non-bonus version will be available for cbills at a much later date if you do miss out). Comes with its own mechbay.

I'm personally quite excited for it.

[Sparrow1250]

^^ I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of BlackJacks running around this week!

[S 0 L E N Y A]

That blackjack looks like it will be a lot of fun.

[Koniving]

Anyone wanna bring their blackjacks to an all blackjack battle?

[BodakOfSseth]

The Blackjack when it comes over as stock is slow; its missile spread is terrible and the damage from it is anemic.
After some testing, the first thing I did was add in bigger SRMs and a bigger engine. I'm currently debating dropping the jumpjets altogether for more ammo.

and yes, there are a lot of them out there..

[Koniving]

ScottAleric, on 18 October 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

The Blackjack when it comes over as stock is slow; its missile spread is terrible and the damage from it is anemic.
After some testing, the first thing I did was add in bigger SRMs and a bigger engine. I'm currently debating dropping the jumpjets altogether for more ammo.

and yes, there are a lot of them out there..

I like it that way. Feels more Battletech. I also run my lights at 108 kph or less and find it to be very effective with standard engines (most people are baffled when you survive a side torso loss). Of course it wouldn't seem 'that' slow if we had more Battletech-ish scales.
Personally I run my ballistic-totting Blackjacks with an XL 180 (so same size engine, just XL instead of standard). Speed tweak helps a bit, but more importantly a slower speed makes aiming easier for me especially at range.

My BJ-2 is probably gonna be run stock (with DHS instead) for a bit then might try mixed missiles.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

4x ASrm6 or go home.

[Horse Pryde]

I am enjoying my new Blackjack!

[BodakOfSseth]

Boogie138, on 19 October 2016 - 02:32 AM, said:

4x ASrm6 or go home.

I was talking to some folks last night about it - one guy went 2 med las and 4xSRM6.
I'm liking 4xSRM4 and the ERLgLas. My problem right now is I only get about 8 shots with 1 ton of ammo.

I'm not really sure that Artemis on SRMs is really worth it. The tighter grouping may be nice, but the weight cost for a few extra? I'm generally not firing them at their extreme range, since I have so few shots with them, so it doesn't seem I'm having many problems with grouping. Almost dumped the last 2 jump jets last night, but decided it was late and I should give the build a few more tries before modfying it further.

I *like* the idea of the 4xSRM6, but then, I'm a pretty big fan of hitting targets that are pretty far out there, and I'm not sure that I want to turn this fairly slow mech into a medium-short brawler/glass cannon. It doesn't have enough energy points to really make it worth it to me.

Edited by ScottAleric, 19 October 2016 - 08:38 AM.

[BodakOfSseth]

Also, Dat Cataphract.
I think I like it as-is, after dropping the XL engine.
Call me crazy, but the 4xMPLas gives me some up-close damage, the ERPPC doesn't really hinder that, and the LBX10 seems to be a nice, finishing move weapon (yes, I know I was railing against it earlier. Clearly I wasn't using it properly.)

I might consider re-building it with LPLas and move the weapons around a bit, and see if I can max the armor, but that's after more testing.

Edited by ScottAleric, 19 October 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

ScottAleric, on 19 October 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

I was talking to some folks last night about it - one guy went 2 med las and 4xSRM6.
I'm liking 4xSRM4 and the ERLgLas. My problem right now is I only get about 8 shots with 1 ton of ammo.

I'm not really sure that Artemis on SRMs is really worth it. The tighter grouping may be nice, but the weight cost for a few extra? I'm generally not firing them at their extreme range, since I have so few shots with them, so it doesn't seem I'm having many problems with grouping. Almost dumped the last 2 jump jets last night, but decided it was late and I should give the build a few more tries before modfying it further.

I *like* the idea of the 4xSRM6, but then, I'm a pretty big fan of hitting targets that are pretty far out there, and I'm not sure that I want to turn this fairly slow mech into a medium-short brawler/glass cannon. It doesn't have enough energy points to really make it worth it to me.

It is 100% worth it on SRM 6's.

ER large + SRMs is a nonsense weapons combo. ER-LL is horrible up close and SRMs obviously only work at close range.

If your main goal is to hit things at range, then SRMs should never be part of the equation for you.

[BodakOfSseth]

Boogie138, on 19 October 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

It is 100% worth it on SRM 6's.

What about SRM4s?

Quote

ER large + SRMs is a nonsense weapons combo. ER-LL is horrible up close and SRMs obviously only work at close range.

If your main goal is to hit things at range, then SRMs should never be part of the equation for you.

I respectfully disagree.
If I wanted to make a single-role for my mech, then yes. You're right - I should make it either LRM+ERLLAS... until the enemy inevitably closes, and ERLLas becomes more of a hindrance at close range, and the missiles are useless. I have no defense up close, and my mech is very quickly a smoking ruin.
Conversely, I take the Large Lasers off and replace them with mediums or something. Thus increasing my close range SRM damage but making me completely useless in the early parts of the match.

The current weapons combo makes a great deal of sense to me. The ERLLas outranges a lot of direct fire weapons, allowing me to harass enemies at range, forcing them to reconsider advancing. Up close the SRMs become the primary weapon and the Large lasers provide backup fire, and if I need to alpha, I'm looking at 52 points if I include the lasers. If I can sneak up on a light, I can crush them with a single hit.

Now, don't get me wrong, changing to 4x SRM6 and 2 med changes the alpha to 61.6, but at the cost of 455m-810m of messing with opponents. So I ask you - which is better:

Taking a more active role in the match and helping dictate the terms of the engagement, and being slightly less effective at close range, or waiting half the match and praying for good trades at close range?

[S 0 L E N Y A]

ScottAleric, on 19 October 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

What about SRM4s?



I respectfully disagree.
If I wanted to make a single-role for my mech, then yes. You're right - I should make it either LRM+ERLLAS... until the enemy inevitably closes, and ERLLas becomes more of a hindrance at close range, and the missiles are useless. I have no defense up close, and my mech is very quickly a smoking ruin.
Conversely, I take the Large Lasers off and replace them with mediums or something. Thus increasing my close range SRM damage but making me completely useless in the early parts of the match.

The current weapons combo makes a great deal of sense to me. The ERLLas outranges a lot of direct fire weapons, allowing me to harass enemies at range, forcing them to reconsider advancing. Up close the SRMs become the primary weapon and the Large lasers provide backup fire, and if I need to alpha, I'm looking at 52 points if I include the lasers. If I can sneak up on a light, I can crush them with a single hit.

Now, don't get me wrong, changing to 4x SRM6 and 2 med changes the alpha to 61.6, but at the cost of 455m-810m of messing with opponents. So I ask you - which is better:

Taking a more active role in the match and helping dictate the terms of the engagement, and being slightly less effective at close range, or waiting half the match and praying for good trades at close range?

Artemis on SRM4s is a coin toss. They work fine without em, but there is definitely a notable improvement with it. Is the extra tonnage and space worth it? Depends on all the other factors of the build.
Artemis and SRM2s make no sense.
Fun side fact- having Artemis selected for a mech with Streaks DOES reduce lock time, even though it should not and does not cost you any extra tonnage or space.

In re: mixing ER-LL and SRMs:

I need to preface my response that I am pseudo/faint hearted comp style player. 9 out of 10 times I am going full meta, min max etc etc etc. Unfortunately, if and when you reach tier "try hard" you kinda have to be.

So that said, if you just want to have fun and play with "unique" style builds, then by all means carry on, and stop reading here.

However, if you are interested in comp, meta, min max, try harding, best practices, winning blah blah blah, then you might want to read on.

One of the fundamental rules of being effective at MWO (winning) is being able to deal out as much damage as possible in as little time as possible.
What is the quickest route to that? Pick a single weapon system (or complimentary systems) and spam the crap out of it under optimal settings.

Also, keep in mind that this is not a new game. What is optimally effective and what is not are not really new topics of discussion. Not much has been added to MWO in the past 4 years. So there is no build, weapons combo, tactic or whatever that you can name that we all have not seen thousands of times before (sadly).

The biggest problem with mixed purpose builds is that at best you are mediocre in a few situations, but not great at any particular one. You have to sacrifice too much, ESPECIALLY on a smaller mech like the BJ, to try to fit multiple roles.
Arguably, Assault mechs can somewhat pull off the mixed purpose builds due to having more tonnage to play with; again it is something you will never see at higher levels of play.

So to answer the final question in your post (which is a false dichotomy btw) neither are good.

Any build type can dictate the pace and engagement of the battle. Long range builds will attempt to suppress at long range and kite out the enemy. Short range builds will use cover to route the enemy. Whether you can do this effectively is not a question of builds, but rather of personal skill.

Specific to the BJ-2, (or SRM focused builds in general) consider this:

SRMs are a fire and forget weapon, meaning there is NO purpose for you to stare down your target once you have fired your missiles. You do not need to hold the target for burn duration like a laser, nor do you need to hold a lock like a LRM or streak.
Once you have fired your SRMs there is nothing you can do to increase their accuracy or damage.
This is all very beneficial to the SRM focused build, because now you can fire your weapons and IMMEDIATELY twist away any return fire and/or jump back into cover.

When you add lasers to the SRM equation you now lose your ability to fire and immediately attempt to negate return fire. This is especially true of long duration lasers, such as the ER-LL. So more often than not, the better fit would be either a medium or small pulse laser. You will still have a bit more "face time" with your target, but far less than an ER-LL,. Plus notice how the smaller pulse lasers by themselves also fit the role of close range brawler/striker?

Anyways, I could go on and on about this, but alas, the real world calls.

[BodakOfSseth]

That's all very fair and nicely laid out. Thank you.
Food for thought - especially when considering how high I want to reach for.

[Ano]

Boogie138, on 19 October 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

{all manner of well-reasoned stuff}

Well done Boogie. That was by some margin the nicest and most I'm-making-my-case-not-calling-you-an-idiot explanation of why high level play uses focused builds I remember reading.

I will also add: playing short-range focused builds can be very frustrating, especially if your map knowledge isn't great *raises hand* and/or your feeling for the 'timing' of a match is still in development *raises hand again*. It's for that reason I personally tend to avoid short-range builds unless the mech is particularly nimble.

BUT

It is immensely satisfying when you are able to bridle your early enthusiasm, play patiently, and then at the right time move into place successfully, as (in general) you then proceed to cause utter havoc. When that happens, the grin can be hard to shift!

[B L O O D W I T C H]

The Blackjack is pretty bad actually, ain't a chassy meant for brawling. i wouldn't recommend dropping 7 bucks for the loyalty BJ alone.

[Kmieciu]

Blackjack-2 is only good for a SRM poptart. Gotta play it like a HBK-IIC-B. 4xASRM6 or go home.
Class IV Jump Jets have great thrust, and the BJ-2 has high weapon mounts. Jump and splat.

If you want too snipe, there are other Blackjacks more suited for that role.

Edited by Kmieciu, 20 October 2016 - 11:10 PM.