14 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

At the moment, it doesn't matter how many keys you buy, they are all the same price.

A bulk discount - as you do for MC - would incent me to buy more of them.

[a gaijin]

No, a better idea would be to just sell all of your supply caches.

[Appogee]

Lone Wanderer, on 21 October 2016 - 02:53 AM, said:

No, a better idea would be to just sell all of your supply caches.

I got two useful Mech Modules (Seismic and Sensor Range) out of 6 crates today (the first I've ever bought keys to unlock).

So, gambling dreams do come true.

Now GTFO of my thread.

[BodakOfSseth]

Appogee, on 21 October 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

At the moment, it doesn't matter how many keys you buy, they are all the same price.

A bulk discount - as you do for MC - would incent me to buy more of them.

Actually that's not correct.

Individual Cache Keys cost from $0.14 each to $.10 each, based on what level of MC you've purchased.
I'd show you the math I did, but the mass DDOS attack is preventing me from getting to photobucket.

So, more accurately, bulk discounts for keys (and everything else) are already calculated in through buying MC in bulk.
Note: When purchasing Cache Keys, there is no appreciable difference between buying MC at $50 or $100. Both boil down to $0.10 per key

Now, that said, F'n yes, I always unlock me them caches. at $0.13 per cache (technically less since I win MC through events), I think I can afford it. Not sure. Maybe. Have to think abou... No, Yeah. Totally can afford it. I buy MC at the $15 level, so 3000 MC, which will open 120 Caches.

I've gotten a mech bay, a few million Cbills in weapons and Omnimech parts, I got a day of premium time (which I only got to play 4 hours of - lesson learned, only open caches with premium time on saturday mornings).

So:
Yes. Caches are totes worth it.
Yes. You already get a bulk discount to buy them.

Edited by ScottAleric, 21 October 2016 - 12:22 PM.

[Appogee]

What I said was correct. We don't presently receive any bulk discount for purchasing multiple cache keys.

But...

ScottAleric, on 21 October 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Individual Cache Keys cost from $0.14 each to $.10 each, based on what level of MC you've purchased.

This is a fair point. You can buy cache keys for effectively "less", depending on what level of MC you purchased.

However, that is beside the point. I'd be incented to buy more Cache keys if they were cheaper per unit in higher quantities... and this would be a benefit to PGI.

At the moment, I buy cache keys singley as there's no reason not to. This means my MC stash is always at it's highest level whenever I'm tempted to spend it on something else. If I had spent MC on multiple cache keys, it would mean I'd run out of MC for other purchases sooner, bringing forward my purchase of MC and creating earlier revenue for PGI.

[BodakOfSseth]

Appogee, on 21 October 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

At the moment, I buy cache keys singley as there's no reason not to. This means my MC stash is always at it's highest level whenever I'm tempted to spend it on something else. If I had spent MC on multiple cache keys, it would mean I'd run out of MC for other purchases sooner, bringing forward my purchase of MC and creating earlier revenue for PGI.

I buy them in groups of 10 because:
1. The amount of time to go and buy keys individually takes longer than to buy them in bulk.
2. I'm going to open every cache I get, so why do I need to waste my time buying individual keys?
3. Generally speaking, you're going to receive caches at a specific rate based on how often you play and win; therefore you could (if you cared to) calculate your dollar spend rate on keys over a given period of time.
This is no different than setting a budget and sticking to it.

In effect, if you open every cache you receive, under your model, you're deceiving yourself into the perception you are spending less, AND you are wasting your own time to go through the transaction time of buying those keys individually.

From PGI's perspective, there's no change in your spend rate, assuming you open every cache - so there's no need to make any changes. In addition, they're not really going to rake in the cash over the caches. 120 caches open for $15? even at a rate of getting two caches a day (a dubious prospect), that's $15 every two months.

No, Caches are not a big money-maker for PGI. They are part of a customer loyalty program to increase your reciprocity. It's one of the reasons that they, and their keys, are offered as event rewards.

If they WANTED to make some money off of caches, they would have to at least double the cache drop rate - but then, that could imbalance the entire economy of the game, discouraging people from spending MC to buy mechs.

Edited by ScottAleric, 21 October 2016 - 01:02 PM.

[Appogee]

ScottAleric, on 21 October 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

assuming you open every cache

I dont. So there goes that argument.

[BodakOfSseth]

Appogee, on 21 October 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

I dont. So there goes that argument.

No, it doesn't invalidate it, it simply makes the math more complex - you're introducing a value judgement as to whether it's worth opening - Ultimately reducing the open rate, but even still, that rate normalizes itself over the long term as you pick what to open and what not to.

More importantly, if you don't open every cache, then you're making it even less likely that PGI cares what you do with the caches - they're not making really very much money off them now, and less so if you don't open every cache. Why should they spend the money to reduce the costs, cutting into their overall (meagre) margins?

Edited by ScottAleric, 21 October 2016 - 08:00 PM.

[Appogee]

ScottAleric, on 21 October 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

More importantly, if you don't open every cache, then you're making it even less likely that PGI cares what you do with the caches - they're not making really very much money off them now, and less so if you don't open every cache. Why should they spend the money to reduce the costs, cutting into their overall (meagre) margins?

I don't think you understand marketing.

You buy keys and open all the crates. You are one kind of customer. You are "money in the bank" for PGI. They don't need to do anything more, you will spend you money on cache keys and they will get your money.

I am a different kind of customer. I rarely open crates. I can be enticed to open crates when I feel there is sufficient value to justify me doing so. I represent an incremental revenue opportunity for PGI.

I am telling PGI that if they offer me a bulk discount for key | will buy bulk keys. This will bring forward incremental revenue for them AND create a bigger chance that I will buy more MC - incremental revenue - sooner.

We are talking small sums. However, the whole F2P model is built of large volumes of micro-transactions across thousands of customers. So it's at least worth their consideration.

[Kaptain]

Appogee, on 22 October 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

I am a different kind of customer. I rarely open crates. I can be enticed to open crates when I feel there is sufficient value to justify me doing so. I represent an incremental revenue opportunity for PGI.

I'm also picky about the ones I open. I have however spent 1300ish MC on crates. Now several hundred of this I won in events but we can ignore that for now. I can subtract 150 mc that I have won in caches themselves. So out of the 1150mc that I have spent on caches I have aquired 4 war horns(3000MC) and a mech bay(150-300mc) and some other MC items I don't care much about. I have also Aquired atleast one seismic sensor and one radar deprivation along with a few other modules and several C-bill items.

I agree with your suggestion. Discounts for purchasing more keys would incentivise me to buy more keys, open more caches and in turn purchase more MC more often.

[Appogee]

Kaptain, on 22 October 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:

I'm also picky about the ones I open. I have however spent 1300ish MC on crates.

Yikes! You're a heck of a lot less picky than me then, LOL!

I think I've only payed to open for 6 in total. The rest have been free keys won in Challenges. The other crates I've sold.

But I'm glad it's working out for you. Maybe I should pay to open more

Edited by Appogee, 22 October 2016 - 02:25 AM.

[Kaptain]

Appogee, on 22 October 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

Yikes! You're a heck of a lot less picky than me then, LOL!

I think I've only payed to open for 6 in total. The rest have been free keys won in Challenges. The other crates I've sold.

But I'm glad it's working out for you. Maybe I should pay to open more

Lol, yeah... I got addicted to mwo after more than a year away. Finished season 3 as the 58th most playing-est player amongst the 4 weight classes in pug quick play. Not something I am proud of lol. I did manage a 1.37 KDR and I don't own a single clan mech (KD3 cough couch) so that's something I guess.

As for caches
If its got a clan mech I generally open it (not working out for me)
If it has multiple chances for mech bays (mech with mechbay + mech) I generally open it (not working out for me)
If it has multiple chances for MC items (warhorn+MC, warhorn+bay, warhorn+prem) working ok
If the weapons and low ticket items dont completely suck (SMRs/LRMs/MLs/AMS) and instead offer 2xLPS, or 2xUltra5 I feel it is "safer" to open them
If there are more than 4 items that I deem "good" (MC items + High ticket C-bill items) I am more likely to open them
The 50 MC caches pay out pretty good in my experience.

Anyways, that's my strat and its working ok so far.

Seen you on the forums here and there. Nice to finally have a convo with you.

Edited by Kaptain, 22 October 2016 - 03:08 AM.

[BodakOfSseth]

Appogee, on 22 October 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

We are talking small sums. However, the whole F2P model is built of large volumes of micro-transactions across thousands of customers. So it's at least worth their consideration.

I get that, and what you said is true - but what you're talking about is an across the board devaluation of one of the smallest purchases you can get.
Remember that each time you give a discount, rebate, etc, it incurs a cost to the bottom line. They already incur that cost through giving MC rewards, through discounting the purchase of MCs by volume, through the periodic mech sales by weight class, through cbill purchases, 50% discount on mech bundles...
Microtransactions work through volume, not through devaluing the transactions they're already getting.

If they want to increase revenue from folks like you, the easiest way to do that without adversely affecting the bottom line (directly) is by increasing the drop rate. Incidentally, this will increase the buy through rate for everyone, not just customers like you. Unfortunately, this would be fairly ham-fisted, and players would likely see this as an attempt at a money grab. That risks alienating some who might be sensitive to aggressive marketing, or turning off the customers seeking free entertainment.
The other way to do that is to increase the perceived value of the cache itself. That would require more data analytics and incremental changes, and be pretty subtle overall. Ultimately more likely to be successful, assuming that players take the time to look through the cache and evaluate its contents.

[Appogee]

ScottAleric, on 22 October 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

If they want to increase revenue from folks like you, the easiest way to do that without adversely affecting the bottom line (directly) is by increasing the drop rate. Incidentally, this will increase the buy through rate for everyone, not just customers like you. Unfortunately, this would be fairly ham-fisted, and players would likely see this as an attempt at a money grab.

That's a very good idea.

I don't think most people would see it as a money grab ... people can sell the cache for 50K CBills, after all.

[BodakOfSseth]

Appogee, on 22 October 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

That's a very good idea.

I don't think most people would see it as a money grab ... people can sell the cache for 50K CBills, after all.

Come now. There are people out there who think vaccines cause autism. OF COURSE some will see it as a money grab.