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Lrm Cockpit Shake


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#1 Ustarish

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 01:32 PM

Hi.
can anyone tell me why lurms cause more cockpit shake then most of the ac's?
from what i can tell its ac20 = lrm 5.
ib4 im using improved gyro.

#2 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 02:10 PM

View PostUstarish, on 21 October 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

Hi.
can anyone tell me why lurms cause more cockpit shake then most of the ac's?
from what i can tell its ac20 = lrm 5.
ib4 im using improved gyro.


(I have no actual proof to back my following theory, i am basically just guestimating)

I personally dont think LRMs cause more impulse then autocannons, but because you dont get hit by all the incomming missiles at the same time, the extended duration of screen shake appears to be more.

Its like the difference between someone fiercely donkey punching you with utmost prejudice, versus someone rigorously shaking you to grab your attention.

#3 Ustarish

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 04:03 PM

i would disagree.
still no proof just my personal feeling that facing kodiak chainfiring on you with quad ac10 cause me less shake than catapult on 6 lurm5's.

is it possible that improved gyro dont reduce shake from lurms?

#4 IraqiWalker

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 04:08 PM

That's because LRMs have more impulse.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

look at the numbers for ballistic weapons, and missiles.

EDIT: Oh, and a CPLT with 6 LRM-5s, will be firing significantly more projectiles at you than a 3 UAC 10 KDK. So even if they caused equal impulse, the LRMs have more projectiles incoming.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 21 October 2016 - 04:10 PM.


#5 Tier5 Kerensky

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 04:36 PM

I think I saw and old several years old post or patch note that had the formula for screen shake. It's based on damage*impulse. Not just impulse.

For example here is referred to it.
http://mwomercs.com/...e-builds-and-s/

But that's several years ago, so it might have been tweaked. The impulrse values in Smurfy are correct still.

Also the patch notes I saw, only said "damage". It doesn't say if it means nominal damage or actual damage made. I'm guessing it's based on actual damage. (which means for example one salvo from LRM 20 can do 8 damage, so multiply that with impact value)

For LRMs damage is 1 unit per missile hit. I'm fairly sure larger lauchers cause more shake, but due to spread and not all missiless hitting it might not follow linearly like the nominal damage done by different lauchers.

In practice most LRM boats use LRM 5-10 due to much ammo and kill efficiency. Some mechs may work adequetly with LRM 15's too.

Comparing UACs of Clan and IS, from the above linked Smurfy table you can see for example Clan UAC 20's have much less nominal impulse. So it's propably calculated per impact, because Clan UAC 20 fires 4 pellets instead of one like IS UAC20. (one Clan UAC20 pellet makes 4 damage, and even from close range you can miss half of them)
So probably Clan and IS AC/UAC/LBX cause similiar amount of shake per class, even if the nominal values are different.

Edited by Teer5, 21 October 2016 - 04:36 PM.


#6 Koniving

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 04:47 PM

View PostUstarish, on 21 October 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

Hi.
can anyone tell me why lurms cause more cockpit shake then most of the ac's?
from what i can tell its ac20 = lrm 5.
ib4 im using improved gyro.


LRM impulse evidently is higher. LRM impulse being 0.3 regardless of launcher, Clan LRM impulse being 0.15 regardless of launcher, and AC/20 impulse being 0.13 with most other ACs being in the 0.0# range.

Should see what ACs used to do.


Why are missiles so much higher? I'll be honest I don't know.
I do miss when ACs had some kick to them though.

#7 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 06:41 PM

well.. Im gonna be "that guy"

who cares?

Do not go derping out in the open by yourself and you will be fine.

#8 AncientRaig

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 07:17 PM

I think the biggest issue isn't the cockpit shake, but the huge explosions that completely blind you when you're hit by ACs or missiles. It can be almost impossible to see anywhere if you're being constantly hit by dakka or missiles.

#9 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 21 October 2016 - 11:26 PM

View PostSidefire, on 21 October 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

I think the biggest issue isn't the cockpit shake, but the huge explosions that completely blind you when you're hit by ACs or missiles. It can be almost impossible to see anywhere if you're being constantly hit by dakka or missiles.


1) lock target
2) aim in middle of red square

#10 General Solo

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 12:19 AM

Maybe because they spread more than most weapons so they increased the bumpity scare factor

#11 jss78

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 02:06 AM

When you're stuck in the open, and are hammered by LRM's, it is pretty awful, even for an experienced player.

What I'd suggest to OP is try and work on approaches to fight LRM's.

1. Always be mindful of where nearest cover is. Unless you're sure where the enemy is, avoid wide open spaces.

2. Equip Radar Deprivation. Buy one to begin with, move it from 'mech to 'mech. Makes utilising cover (#1) much more effective. Radar Depr. makes your enemy lose target lock the second you break LOS, instead of with a few-second delay. This can save you from a missile barrage. Less important if you can equip ECM, as then the enemy typically doesn't get target lock to begin with.

3. Shoot down enemy UAV's. Very important, as UAV's can negate cover and ECM. See an extra light in the sky? Move reticule to light until your range finger shifts to show the range to UAV -- this is when you're on target. Shoot.

(4. Equip AMS. Useful, but situational. A single AMS doesn't do very much, 2-3 with overload module does work well. Being in a group of 'mechs with several AMS is very effective.)

Taken together, these work very well. They're the reason you see quite few LRM's in high-tier games, they're just too easily countered.

#12 Bellum Dominum

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 03:05 AM

A couple of years ago for some reason PGI decided to take the nerfbat to the cockpit/mech shake caused by autocannons. Posted Image
AC 20 was a really good weapon back then as you could nearly spin an opponents cockpit 90 degrees for a second, but of course had the huge drawback that you had to be close to do it.

Even lrm/srm cockpit shake has been reduced from what it once was but as was mentioned above it still feels like it is more and that is largely because unlike a single huge lump of lead slamming into you it is multiple explosions going off at a staggered pace.

Just be glad that lrms took a huge nerfbat to their damage. Today they really are not much more than suppression weapons. I've mostly played them as armor scratching/suppression from the get go but that really is the case today. That is of course if your team doesn't play scared and instead pushes in on the lrms with extreme prejudice. AMS, Cover, Aggression will slaughter an lrm heavy opposition every time it is used. (Notice I left out ecm? I did that on purpose because it really is not needed to defeat lrms at all. Yes it helps, Yes it is nice to have, but NO it is not needed.)

**EDIT: Jss mentioned radar derp module as well. I rarely use it but do consider it a good module. Even in a heavy or assault (slower mechs take more time to get to that cover). I highly suggest AMS first. Jss is right that a single AMS doesn't do much against the lrm barrage, and that it's only of use if the enemy is using lrms. 1 1/2 tons to 2 tons of equipment on 5 mechs that stay within a reasonable distance of each other however will be a bad day for any lrm boats on your enemy team. Again of course though your team has to push on those lrm boats else the smart lrm players are simply going to start staggering their lrms more to eat up your ams ammo. IE 6 lrm 5 maddog is very good at eating up ams ammo and still having some ammo left to do damage with. Even tossing radar derp into the priority list of how to deal with lrms I'd say: AMS, Cover, Radar Derp, Aggression. I put cover first because used right even the target retention module for the lrm boats doesn't help against the proper cover but it can actually cause the lrm user to waste more ammo as they continue to launch due to having a lock but don't realize that all they are doing is tossing ammunition against a wall/building/etc.

And I'm not really sure that aggression should be at the end of the list to be honest but probably at the top.

Edited by Bellum Dominum, 22 October 2016 - 03:15 AM.


#13 Spike Brave

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 06:49 AM

I think there are two important things about LRMs and shake that haven't been mentioned yet. First, a lot with LRM builds favor mulitple smaller racks and chain fire them. This is done with the cockpit shake in mind to make it hard for the target to aim as it will consantly be hit be LRM volley. Secondly, Clan LRMs fire in a stream which increase the amount of time the target is being hit so it leads to longer shake as the target will shake as each missle hits seperately.

#14 Ustarish

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 08:17 AM

Thank all of You for Your input :)

I just got my self lurmboat and im having a great time :)

#15 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 10:03 AM

View PostSpike Brave, on 22 October 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

I think there are two important things about LRMs and shake that haven't been mentioned yet. First, a lot with LRM builds favor mulitple smaller racks and chain fire them. This is done with the cockpit shake in mind to make it hard for the target to aim as it will consantly be hit be LRM volley. Secondly, Clan LRMs fire in a stream which increase the amount of time the target is being hit so it leads to longer shake as the target will shake as each missle hits seperately.



You rascal, this is deep thought I was going to add, lol.

A lot of players are going with the LRM 5's. 3-5 of them if possible. So instead of one 20 missile swarm hitting you once, 5 missiles are hitting you over and over also because they can be fired again faster.

One reason this is done is the current thought is that an LRM 5 has a smaller spread than a 10 which has a smaller spread than a 15 which has a..well, you get it.

A rough way to think of this is that if you fire 20 LRMs, only 10 will hit the target because of their spread. But if you use LRM 5's, maybe 4 out of 5 hit.

#16 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 10:07 AM

View PostUstarish, on 22 October 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

Thank all of You for Your input Posted Image

I just got my self lurmboat and im having a great time Posted Image



I have a couple now...shhhhhh....Add if you can a TAG. It makes a big difference.

For one thing, it kind of gets you to or reminds you to hit targets that are in a direct fire mode from you. Although, direct fire is often not possible. It also can remind you to only shoot within 750Ms since this is the range of the TAG. As I just used in my last game, TAG also works on shutdown enemy mechs (you lose your targeting) and against Mechs that have ECM.

#17 General Solo

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 02:02 AM

I like narc with my lerms.

#18 Bellum Dominum

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 08:14 AM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 24 October 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

I like narc with my lerms.


Even sweeter if you can get a sneaky good narc raven to get ya targets eh?





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