127 replies to this topic

[Requiemking]

This is the discussion portion on a topic that I feel the community needs to look at. Jump Jets. These things were part of a three-pronged giga-nerf aimed at the Godmechs that reigned over the Poptart era, namely, the Cataphract 3D, the Victor, and the Highlander. This all went down long before the Clan mechs were even released as concept art. However, so many years later, now we are at a critical point. With the KDK-3 pretty much rendering all other Assaults obsolete in QP, should JJ scaling be restored to the way they were to give other mechs a fighting chance. However, I do have one caveat. Ascending reticle jitter would remain in place for the time being, as a way to restrict Poptarts, as without it, a person with decent aim could pop off two shots within a single jump.

As for where the poll itself is, here you go:

http://mwomercs.com/...age__mode__show

[Gas Guzzler]

Sure, I'm down to give it a try, not sure exactly what level of pre-nerf you are referring to (went through several stages) but 1 or 2 iterations prior to the final cursed destiny of the Lowlander would be nice.

[Dr Wubs]

Giving other mechs OP jump jets is not the solution to the KDK Triple menace.

[JC Daxion]

Yay another poll! No thanks.. I think JJ's are just fine how they are.. Though i would not mind a slight tragetory change, where mechs go up at a slightly steeper angle.. feels odd where you move forward so much, and then hit a wall to go up,, then start going forward again.


Id much rather have them have a bit steep up rate, and forward... BUT add if you hit something while going up, you stop going up.. Make um take timing and skill, and not turn um into pop tart jets, or building sliders

[Appogee]

JJs are fine as is.

There are enough Gundam games out if you want to play Flying Robots. This is A BattleTech Game.

Or so we're told

Edited by Appogee, 24 October 2016 - 10:22 AM.

[Vanguard319]

I'm in favor of it, Poptarts are not invincible, contrary to popular opinion, and it was really the only thing some mechs had going for them (looking at you Victor.) Current team mentality is about as sophisticated as Napoleonic tactics and attrition warfare atm. Anything that adds variety to the usual firing line, and seeing who brought more massed fire is a good thing.

[JadePanther]

give me some angular control to my JJ's let me decide what angle the thrust is at.. Make it a UI widget in the mech lab..

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I'm all hella yaassssss for Jump Jet buffs. The 5Vs were already bad enough due to hardpoint limitations, but at least it could carry 12 Jumpjets The Jumpjet nerf was pretty much the final nail on the coffin for the 5V. Make 12 Jump Jet build great again

[Requiemking]

Well, current opinion is in favour of unnerfing JJs, but its still early.

[Mystere]

My Highlander staying as a lowlander is just simply unacceptable.

[Lord Perversor]

Said it in the past will say it again, Pgi should stop trying to balance JJ per weight and make them a % of the mech.

Everymech should have a *fixed per chassis jj reach*

carrying the right amount of JJ the mechs are able to fully hit that fixed amount, carrying less make them suffer a % decrease in effciciency when jumping (carrying half the maximum amount means the Mechs just jump half the fixed value) carrying more provides no further benefit than having increased JJ recharge or longer duration (but no further reach)

When balancing is needed to ensure no mech is abused for it's JJ advantage (perfect poptart chassis as example) Pgi just can make a scalar % in each single JJ until it hits the golden spot, thus avoiding the *skip some JJ to get enought poptart trust*

thus making the whole system self balanced and providing true benefits for players who carry the right ammount of JJ in their mechs.

[Snowbluff]

Appogee, on 24 October 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

JJs are fine as is.

There are enough Gundam games out if you want to play Flying Robots. This is A BattleTech Game.

Or so we're told

Gundams actually have very poor maneuverability in atmosphere, and not enough fuel for actual flight in gravity. Later transformable ones can fly a lot better, but that's like a Land/Air Mech.

I'd like Heavy and Assault JJs buffed. The assault jumpjets weigh twice as much for half of the power of the Heavy class ones. It's ridiculous how bad they are.

[Requiemking]

Appogee, on 24 October 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

JJs are fine as is.

There are enough Gundam games out if you want to play Flying Robots. This is A BattleTech Game.

Or so we're told

Except, this is more about Jump-capable mechs >50 tons being able to make proper use of JJs. I mean, look at the Class 1 JJs used on the Highlander. Three of them should provide a fair jump(lets face it, those things are basically rocket engines strapped to the Highlander's back). But instead I get a better jump out of a Trebuchet using the same number of JJs, yet the Highlander's jets weigh four times as much.

[Appogee]

I remember the days of Victors sailing through the air, from cover to cover, unleashing alphas at the apex of each jump.

I do NOT want to go back there again.

[Requiemking]

Appogee, on 24 October 2016 - 01:09 PM, said:

I remember the days of Victors sailing through the air, from cover to cover, unleashing alphas at the apex of each jump.

I do NOT want to go back there again.

Problem is, you can't go back there. As I stated, the JJ nerf was part of a tree-pronged giga-nerf, aimed at unseating the Poptarts. The other two nerfs were aimed at Gauss Rifles(Charge mechanic) and PPCs(Velocity nerf). Not to mention the Victor's beyond awkward tubecounts and hardpoint locations.

[Appogee]

Requiemking, on 24 October 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Problem is, you can't go back there. As I stated, the JJ nerf was part of a tree-pronged giga-nerf, aimed at unseating the Poptarts. The other two nerfs were aimed at Gauss Rifles(Charge mechanic) and PPCs(Velocity nerf). Not to mention the Victor's beyond awkward tubecounts and hardpoint locations.

And now we have DIRE WHALES that can jump. And Highlander IICs that have a heap of hardpoints and plenty of leftover tonnage for Jump Jets. And Jade Kites that can already jump-splat better than any jumping Catapult ever could.

Just, no. The poptarting meta must not return. It took three stakes through its heart to kill it the first time.

[Requiemking]

Appogee, on 24 October 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

And now we have DIRE WHALES that can jump. And Highlander IICs that have a heap of hardpoints and plenty of leftover tonnage for Jump Jets. And Jade Kites that can already jump-splat better than any jumping Catapult ever could.

Just, no. The poptarting meta must not return. It took three stakes through its heart to kill it the first time.

Problem is, people want mechs like the EXE and the Victor to be not useless. Besides, even with JJs unnerfed, the Whale isn't going far. Its a 100 ton mech with 3 JJs at most. HGN-IIC has, at most, six hardpoints on any given variant, which is pretty average for an Assault mech. And the Kite has a weaker jump than the Summoner and the Catapult, yet you don't have a problem with that.

[Tristan Winter]

Requiemking, on 24 October 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

This is the discussion portion on a topic that I feel the community needs to look at. Jump Jets.

99% of the community is aware that jump jets are ridiculously bad. Most players rarely bring the full number of jump jets unless they are hard locked. This is the case both for light mechs and assault mechs, basically across the board.

However, PGI doesn't give a f*ck that the players are unhappy about the way jump jets are handling in MWO, despite pretty clear and frequent freedback from the players. PGI left the poptart meta alone for about a year without stopping it, and then let jump jets be terrible for the next 2 years, basically.

[Lyoto Machida]

Appogee, on 24 October 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

JJs are fine as is.

There are enough Gundam games out if you want to play Flying Robots. This is A BattleTech Game.

Or so we're told

If this was really a BatlleTech game, mechs wouldn't be barely hovering off the ground with 8 tons invested in JJs.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Fix hitreg first, then start the debate about JJ's.

Just my opinion.