72 replies to this topic

[Morggo]

Kael Posavatz, on 27 October 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

....
Why people don't like other maps:

Most of the new maps are big...but go largely unused. They are visually cluttered. There is a lot of 'stuff' for your mech to hang-up on. The pathing is not 'neutral' to spawn areas (except for Polar Highlands which is rather non-pathing). Myriad factors tend to produce more 'stomps'.

And there's yer problem

People ignore all the interesting other parts of the larger maps, and within a week of a new map coming out people have, for whatever reason, picked a spot and forever more everyone drops, rushes to the new location of death, and proceed to have a fight. And the team the can rush there first and set up often stomps the other team that didn't get set. Minor variations on the theme occur.

As for the visual clutter, meh, I'm in favor of that flavor. I'm one of the damned 'immersionists' and enjoy seeing all the 'real stuffs' and not feel like I'm playing inside arena sports.

BUT, as always, I enjoy hearing other views and opinions folks have. Helps in understanding.

cheers

[Ollie Rifleman Brown]

This map is good for brainless people.
You need no tactical understanding.

Advantage for those with a good ping,
meta build and mid / close range weapons,
macros.

[GenghisJr]

HPG, Frozen City, Polar, Canyon Network & Tourmaline have better fps and visibility, people vote for how well the map runs on their pc's

[Mcgral18]

Ollie Rifleman Brown, on 27 October 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

macros.

lol

[Dee Eight]

HPG is also a negative temperature map, and ballistic weapons sound better to the user on it.

[RestosIII]

Ollie Rifleman Brown, on 27 October 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

macros.

Mcgral18, on 27 October 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

lol

[Zieten]

It's not my favorite map, but I like it for several already mentioned reasons.
It's a clean, straighforward map with some depth in how you play it and my FPS stay stable and at a decent rate (my PC is rather weak).
I don`t understand why ppl complain about its small size. Crimson Straight f.e.(which also seems to be a well liked map) is a huge map but 99% of the combat only takes place on the 2 decks and the tunnel entrance.
The complaints about Nascar are also rather weird, bc there is hardly any map on which it does not happen (and those usually haver other issues as well).
Sure it would be awesome if the larger maps would be used to their fullest by the players, but, for some reason, the current playerbase just does not want to utilize the benefits of larger maps (with the exception of the last ECM light mech against 6+ enemies on Skirmish - they sure do use all the space they can get...).

[Astrocanis]

Morggo, on 27 October 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

One can only hope!

Because the most fun ever is not being able to see a damned thing, right?

[Suko]

Bombast, on 27 October 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

Also, I think the MWO community has a fetish for mono-color maps.

It's like thermal vision, even when it's not!

[1453 R]

Blood Rose, on 27 October 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

A change to that map would be an utter relief.

I still want to know what is wrong with the other maps, and why people seem to shy away from diverse playstyles and challenges. HPG is boring and almost always plays out the same way, and yet almost everyone seems to rush towards it. I just got yet another HPG match, and I couldnt take it. I suicided my Jenner and quo the game for the night. 26 games played today out of which two where not HPG. It is sickening.

Because many other maps offer no such thing.

Think about it - you drop on Viridian Bog, and combat always takes place at the exact same ranges in the exact same places. Flanking routes take too long to use and offer too little cover, so trying to end-run the enemy is a losing proposition nine attempts out of ten. Visibility is nonexistent and bullet-eating map clutter is absolutely everywhere, so longer-ranged playstyles/loadouts get butthumped, and LRMs are (even more of) an absolute joke. It's "fight near Dead Critter Hill in the middle at ~400-ish range until we have enough mojo to push for SRMs." There's not really any other way to play that map no matter what you bring.

And I actually don't mind Dagobah nearly as much as most of my buddies, or the other game folks I know.

HPG has good visibility, it's a low-heat map, it offers sufficient cover and elevation changes to let you maneuver and try to outflank or escape enemies without being so massive and cluttered that only knife-fighting works, or so torturously laid out that it takes you two unacceptable minutes out of a match to get at the other team's back arcs. It's got something for everybody - you're not generally going to have a bad game on HPG because HPG fudged you.

Dagobah? Dagobah was built for map rage.
Nu Forest Colony? Also built for map rage.
Nu River City? Not really much different than Old River City, at this stage.
Alpine? Desolate MW2-style flatland, and just as absolutely p!ss-awful for any sort of multiplayer fight.
Nu Frozen? UUUGH. Just vote 'No' to NuFrozen.

A majority of other maps? Either plagued with bad visibility, bad terrain layouts, or other issues which either sharply favor a given playstyle or which render the map frustrating to deal with. Notice the maps that tend to be voted up more often than not - Canyon, HPG, Mining Collective, Crimson to an extent - are the ones with above-average visibility, terrain layouts which allow for quick and effective flanking and battles of maneuver, and sufficient cover without being so over-cluttered that it makes maneuvering difficult or finding shots a chore.

Those are the maps people vote for because they want to fight the enemy. Not the enemy and the map both.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Probably because HPG is small, forces quick engagements.......doesnt require any brains to play.

PVP, the large maps are fine, whats missing it stuff to do. Fire bases to take over, repair bays to capture, supply convoys to take, which if taken would give your team like a 25% boost to end game earnings. Maybe a crashed dropship, that if you take it has a chance to award your team with consumables.

You know, just various things all over the map to get people moving. Instead of just hold W and go to the middle, then hold LMB till your mech stops wiggling....

[manadrain]

OP: you have been hammered by this map in ludicrously high rotation, and that would suck for anyone, but I personally have not, so my opinion (while it don't smell like roses) is different.

Many of you are on to the crux of it, at least from where I stand.

Put yourself in the following situation: (imagining a pug drop to level a mech)

You have this "new" splat Archer, Cat A1/Butterbee, Griffin, or 10+x ersml clan 'Mech that needs leveled.
you are tired of not getting to play at all because you usually get skunked dead bafore your second shot;
armor sniped/lurmed off while moving the 2000m+ to get to the fight on Forest colony, Alpine peaks, Frozen city, or lord forbid--polar crumpled paperlands (if you look up miserable in the dictionary, it should say something about getting stuck in a brawler on polar) .

your other variants are nearing end of mastery tier xp, but not the brawler.... how to ensure you get to play, probably win to get it some love and finally master the chassis?

The logical solution is to vote the one map in the game that a brawl just about always happens on. --HPG. If you want to lurm, you generally vote polar, if you want to snipe, Frozen works quite well, if you want to Brawl, HPG is just about your best bet.

The map runs faster, looks good, and actually lets the other third of builds reliably do work, without a protracted snipe phase to eat away at your armour. Many have mentioned the build diversity that it allows, IME, this is true. Plus, it's the last classic map, it feels like old MWO, and there are those of us that like that feel. The new maps are quite pretty, but they get there at the expense of wasted space, poor FPS, and frustrating visual effects (in other words, playability).

This is not to say, by any stretch that one cannot brawl on other maps, but since the mapsize inflation began, it does often hose the brawl builds.

Another interesting thing I've noticed is that with so many firing lanes, there is a *little* less team clutter. (opposed to the F line on new Therma)


In short, do I always vote HPG?? No. Do I always vote HPG when I'm in my ARC-5w full of a buttload of SRM's ? YES. But I just play here

[Piney II]

I miss the times when there was no map voting - take what you get.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

The Lobsters, on 27 October 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

Lol, so true.

How about for a night/day cycle the sun comes up and everything goes for a few degrees above absolute zero to WTFBBQ.

I wish we had a map like this.

There was one in Mechwarrior living legends... it was basically HPG in fact, an HPG relay and mining operation on a huge asteroid flying through space. It had a time of day mechanic that when it was "night" the water on the asteroid froze, and water covered areas became ice you could walk over. During the day those became lakes, and rivers, and heat dissipation went to hell in a handbasket.

good times.

[Prc]

Good temp, good visibility, not very big you see action pretty quickly if not instantly when going in tru the gates.

[Johnny Z]

Answer is, its a grind map. Super quick matches and cool running.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 October 2016 - 04:19 PM.

[N0ni]

HPG redux: We expanded the map to 4096 x 4096 and it now rotates between sunlight and shadow (rotating hot and cold). We also put in some cool fog to obscure your vision because we don't like direct line of sight, if they can't see Paul they can't bowl him so easily.

That being said we're buffing the K2 with our first set of map specific quirks, the K2 now comes with -200m detection range on HPG.
The Dragon will also come with a set of quirks, -5 Left and Right leg structure on HPG.


Sorry, i can't take anything serious anymore lol

[Kael Posavatz]

Morggo, on 27 October 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

And there's yer problem

People ignore all the interesting other parts of the larger maps, and within a week of a new map coming out people have, for whatever reason, picked a spot and forever more everyone drops, rushes to the new location of death, and proceed to have a fight. And the team the can rush there first and set up often stomps the other team that didn't get set. Minor variations on the theme occur.

It's not that they are ignoring all that other area. It's that there is nothing that draws them to it.

Military necessity dictates that you move as quickly as possible to secure your objectives. In at least 3/4ths of current game-modes, that objective is the enemy team. In the remaining game mode, most teams grab the two closest objectives, and then everyone fights at or around the central cap-zone which amounts to much the same thing as those other 3 game-modes.

Most skirmish fighting occurs at a point roughly equidistant to the two drop-zones. The Domination Comm Tower is located where most of the skirmish fighting happens. Assault encourages more of the same with the occasional end-around to base cap which is often met with textual vomit in the all-chat.

Or to put it another way, there isn't fighting in the ship-side water or beach-cliffs of Forest Colony because there is no reason to go there. To fight there you have to travel further from your objective in skirmish. It leaves the objective exposed in Domination, and encourages the enemy to swing wide and back-cap you in Assault.

You do see this terrain occasionally used in pure-unit group matches, particularly skirmish, but that is mostly because if you drop with 12 people you know, you can generally get them to do what you want. All it takes is one person outside the group, or not listening to the person on Comms, to drop the unit down to 11 v 12. Most won't put their team at a potential disadvantage by asking other players to do something they aren't certain will happen. It isn't even necessarily malicious. You could simply run into a player who doesn't have a headset or has his speakers turned off.

The only map that breaks this up is Polar Highlands which spreads out the Conquest zones in a pentagon rather than the point-in-a-box that you find on other maps. This corresponds well with its generally pathing-neutral design.

This means the large maps have a great deal of superfluous space. It isn't being utilized because there is no reason to utilize it, which in turn means it is a distraction. HPG is space-efficient. This makes it attractive.

Ironically, Scouting, which spreads out the beacons, does an excellent job of making the larger maps relevant. But it is a mode that I think would do very well in a limited, small/scale map like the old Forest Colony. But maybe that's just me.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 27 October 2016 - 05:36 PM.

[Belacose]

It's so popular because I hate it obviously.

[Digous]

because it can be anything from brawling contest to LRM boredom-fest.

really, you can be and do different things at different sections of the map, pug's, poptart, peek, snipe, trade, 1x1 at the basement... you've got the whole deal.

i do believe is one of the few (if not the one and only) maps PGI has achieved such goal. that's why it is so popular, and that's why people are calling it easy mode.

Edited by Digous, 27 October 2016 - 05:46 PM.