159 replies to this topic

[Zyzyx66]

The reason is exactly because the dev's wanted to limit players from laser-boating etc. It forces players to experiment within harsher restrictions. The slot limitations aren't really all that limiting - it would enable min-maxing to a greater extent, which ultimately just ruins the play experience for everyone who doesn't care about the numbers - in that case it would be better to not have a mechlab at all. This way, variants have a purpose too, with their differing hard points.

I like how they've added more complex restrictions - nothing ruins a good multiplayer game for me more than min-maxing.

[Duymon]

If you got used to it in MW4 it should be no issue now.

I think it was done because in MW3 you could put like 14 small lasers on a light mech and just 1 or 2 shot parts off many mechs.

If you had the full Mechlap like in Mw2 / 3, it opens up the room for mondo cheese mech designs and not only that, it takes away the character of all the mechs, dumbing them down to just their weight class.

[Shadowscythe]

Sarah McCallum, on 19 July 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

If we're trying to stay true to the time frame you should not be able to modify your mech. Any variant would have to be purchased individually and take a spot in your hangar. A modular design in 3049 where can be swapped out of a single chassis is rather unheard of.

ChargerIIC, on 19 July 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Not certain if being sarcastic or....

Modifying mechs was pretty common. Especially in the lore. Yen-Lo-Wang is probably the most famous example as it was modified extensively in one of the earliest novels. Archer Christifori'sCeaser went through several changes as well. Even many of the variants mentioned in the Technocal Readouts are the result of kits that were purchased by a mechwarrior and used to change the base model.

Wouldn't really say unheard of...But not everyone and their dog was able to custom their mech like we will be able to.....


I am very glad we won't have to work with only stock mechs I can't see myself piloting a stock commando (too slow for a light) But I can see myself piloting a 9/14+ commando (different weapons of course)

Plan on using a 10/15/10 spider (tech 2) at some point

As for Boating only very specific weapons. That will be up to the Devs to balance.. I wish them luck

[Spheroid]

Bodha, on 19 July 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

1. Weapon hard points provide a need for diversity in mechs. Without it you only need 1 mech for each weight which comes to only 17 mechs total. This game would be sad with only 17 mechs. This to me is more important than point #2 b/c I want the devs to make diversity a keep feature of the game.

Bingo

[wombat1]

Shouldn't that add to the realism? Every platform has limitations- for instance there was just no way to put an 88 mm gun in the turret of of PZ IV....

[grimzod]

MPcdn, on 19 July 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hi all

I am suprised by the limitations when adding weapons to a Mech. I will explain. To me a weapon is a weapon, if you have the space you should be able to put any weapon in it. Right now weapon loadout slots a limited to being a beam or projectile. This takes away some of the fun weapon loadouts. Think 10 machine guns on a light or two guass on an Atlas the variants are unlimited.

On one more note weapons loads should show in game, if you take a PPC off you should not have a big tube showig in game.

First, this type of thinking is perfectly in line with TT rules and I commend you for your min/maxing zeal. Second, it also leads to 'boating' which leads to games DYING under the weight of min/maxed jump capable missile mechs, laser boats and the like. Hardpoints will probably mitigate this somewhat and are even welcome by me, a guy that likes Locusts with 300 VLAR XL engines and a speed of 15/23 with a single med laser as scouts. Its just my thing.

Third, the resources required to model a single mech with a variant look for each possible weapon in each possible location are mind boggling large. Lets just suspend our disbeliefe please. If only for the sanity of the dev team and the Sixze of the MWO download.

[Wirecutter]

well looks like veryone else has said a lot about the metagame aspects of this...
so i'll just focus on a little bit of the flavor side of the question.

in particular, the "Why you cant shoot lasers out of missile tubes" bit.

different weapon systems have different requirements...

ballistics require ammunition feeds, systems have to be in place to clear chambers of spent shells and jammed shells.
these systems produce significant amounts of recoil and require sufficient structural support to handle it.

missile systems, like ballistic systems, also require an ammunition feed system. however, there are no spent shells to clear.
instead, some sort of exhaust port is required to prevent the tube from blowing along with all the other ammunition.
due to the construction of missile tubes, the missiles are usually also loaded from the back, instead of from the side as most bullet-fed weapons are.
guided missiles will also need the electronic connections to mount the missile guidance systems.

energy systems are another matter again. these systemspull a lot of power from the mech's reactor in very short bursts.
this requires proper electrical systems that can both handle the load, and are sifficiently shielded so the sudden spikes in the charge of these systems do not interfere with delicate sensors.
energy weapons tend to generate a lot of heat as well, and would require special insulation, and/or a larger exposure to the cooling systems of the mech.

these are flavor reasons why most hard points in a mech are limited to only one type of weapon.
can a weapon slot be modified, or enough redundancy be implemented that a hardpoint will be able to handle almost any weapon?
YES! it can! but at this time only clan mechs have it...
aaand they arent here yet.


</uselessinfo>

[Docta Pain]

This is the first MW in a decade. I hope we can all play nice and respect what the Devs are trying to do here... add some balance without sacrificing too much of our sacred canon.

[MPcdn]

I give the Dev great prase for making this game and I hope they take my comments as helpful and not bashing them. I would never want to down play what a great game this will be when it is released.

[sakkaku]

ChargerIIC, on 19 July 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Not certain if being sarcastic or....

Modifying mechs was pretty common. Especially in the lore. Yen-Lo-Wang is probably the most famous example as it was modified extensively in one of the earliest novels. Archer Christifori'sCeaser went through several changes as well. Even many of the variants mentioned in the Technocal Readouts are the result of kits that were purchased by a mechwarrior and used to change the base model.

Yen-Lo-Wang was a fairly minor modification. It stripped the LRM10 and Ammo and upgraded an existing weapon (ac10) to a larger size (ac20). The blades on the hands don't count as anything major aside from some sheet metal and a wielding job.

Archer Christifori's Penetrator was overhauled with clan technology at the orders of Victor Stenier-Davion, perhaps one of the most influential people at a time when there was a huge surplus in clan tech after having taken the jaguar homeworld. Furthermore he was injured at the time and didn't resume active service until returning to the IS. The modifications could have taken months to accomplish and work out the bugs of mixing tech.

Edited by sakkaku, 19 July 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[pseudolife]

ChargerIIC, on 19 July 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Not certain if being sarcastic or....

Modifying mechs was pretty common. Especially in the lore. Yen-Lo-Wang is probably the most famous example as it was modified extensively in one of the earliest novels. Archer Christifori'sCeaser went through several changes as well. Even many of the variants mentioned in the Technocal Readouts are the result of kits that were purchased by a mechwarrior and used to change the base model.

Yen-Lo-Wang was modified yes, but not really modular. the ability to change loadouts like the OP is suggesting would really fall under "modular". I suppose you could create some asinine rules about how often you could change your loadout for your "customized" mech, but instead why not play into the living universe concept the devs have come up with and learn to fight with the mech as is (or with what cusomization is allowed)

besides. using Yen-Lo-Wang as your example suggest players are as cool as Justin Allard. you sir, are no Justin Allard. (or any other player)

Edited by pseudolife, 19 July 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[Sinnfullduck]

I also agree that the appearance should change with your weapons but I don't think you should be able to equip anything in any slot. I like having a set weapon characteristic. It means people will have to use tactics and creativity rather than just equiping what ever weapon happens to be OP at the time.

[Machalel]

*sigh*

Go take out the CPU(weapon) from your computer(Mech) and replace it with one of the opposing type (AMD or Intel). When that is successful, come back and continue this thread then I'll agree that "a weapon is just a weapon"

[Bodha]

Machalel, on 19 July 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

*sigh*

Go take out the CPU(weapon) from your computer(Mech) and replace it with one of the opposing type (AMD or Intel). When that is successful, come back and continue this thread then I'll agree that "a weapon is just a weapon"

lol

[SmAuthor]

To truly understand how Mech's are built and why switching weapons is such a pain in the butt you need to read this posting

http://mwomercs.com/...y-an-education/

[Diancecht]

One thing i did not see mentioned yet was that the standard onboard targeting computers would have to be changed for odd weapon type changes....sometimes even just changing "brands" of Large lasers would require a tech to reprogram a mechs TC. Just one more layer of realistic restrictions.

[William Boone]

I actually like the concept of hardpoints, it was in MW4 some too.

My only concern is the lack of the Unseen mechs, we need mechs to fill those roles. The Clans use fairly speedy land mechs but few of their mechs are jump capable, I know some disagree but the more plentiful jump capable IS mechs is what helped in a war of attrition against the Clans. I know its a little harder to do the jumping and combat in the computer games but in table top whenever we did IS vs Clan in this time period, IS companies that had several jump capable medium mechs did far better against the clans then those that did not.

My only disappointment thus is that no jump jets on a model that did not have them in the base variant. However I'll learn to deal with it .

[Graphite]

MPcdn, on 19 July 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hi all

I am suprised by the limitations when adding weapons to a Mech. I will explain. To me a weapon is a weapon, if you have the space you should be able to put any weapon in it. Right now weapon loadout slots a limited to being a beam or projectile. This takes away some of the fun weapon loadouts. Think 10 machine guns on a light or two guass on an Atlas the variants are unlimited.

On one more note weapons loads should show in game, if you take a PPC off you should not have a big tube showig in game.

From the polls, between 25 and 30% of people here argee with you (I'm one of them), but there are plenty of people who feel that a particular chassis (e.g. the Atlas) should be associated with particular weapon types in particular location (as opposed to only a particular variant such as the AS7-D being associated with particular weapons).

PGI have to make choices that will minimise the number of people who will refuse to play the game: unlimited customisation would see a significant reduction in the potential market, and no customisation would see a huge reduction in the potential market.
The compromise they're offering is acceptable (not ideal) to almost everyone.

[RZeus]

whats the point in having a specific mech if all you need to do is strip it and load whatever weapons you want. The mech looses its "individuality". If you read the books, only the most well to do Mechwarriors were able to fully customise there mechs. Everyone else could get different varients of the mech from the company that makes the mech. I think that when you get enough money and level up high enough to purchase them mech, you then can choose varient you buy. Once purchased, you have to reach a level of experience with it IOT fully customise it. These are not omni mechs, these are inner sphere pre clan invasion mechs.

[RZeus]

in this thread it seems only a few really understand the period of time the game will start out in and what mechs were like. This isn't MW4 or 3 or 2. there setting the game in a place in battletech history, us the players, have to fight with what we have. the creators of this game are focusing on the Mechwarriors perspective, so through out Battletech history, certain famed warriors were associated with a particular mech that reflected there tactics and to a extent there personality. Ulric Kerensky was famed for piloting a Executioner. Natasha Kerensky (while in the Inner Sphere) a Warhammer, then was killed piloting a Dire Wolf. Jamie Wolf usually piloted a Archer. You get my point.