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#21 aresfiend

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:11 AM

View PostPvt Dancer, on 20 July 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

Oh I see... can't win the arguement so you change game versions. Whatever.

No, I didn't change game versions. We're in the MWO General forum, if you want to fight your boardgame battle do it outside of the video game realm. It's kinda like trying to have an intelligent converstaion on 4chan, you're in the wrong place.

#22 tvih

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:14 AM

Turns don't mean anything per se, but the same thing still applies, those 'Mechs can't escape from the BattleMaster by going backwards and so forth.

As for the BattleMaster in general, I'd definitely like to see it in game, if the license to use it has indeed been regained. It's probably the third in my most-liked Assault 'Mechs after Atlas and Zeus.

#23 aresfiend

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:37 AM

View Posttvih, on 20 July 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Turns don't mean anything per se, but the same thing still applies, those 'Mechs can't escape from the BattleMaster by going backwards and so forth.

According the the boardgame a 1v1 Atlas VS Firefly is always a win for the Atlas, in Mechwarrior 3 (Because 4 was garbage and 2 wasn't advanced enough) depending on the skill of the firefly pilot that Atlas is DEAD.

#24 ORIGINAL SteelWolf

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:47 AM

" Unlike the Atlas, the BattleMaster is a lousy piece of machinery and ..." Kiss my what? That is my all time favorite mech you are talking about there. [writes posters name in a black book of pain] I'll be hunting you in game when it launches. (Yes i know hes /flexing. Me too)

#25 Elkarlo

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:48 AM

View Postaresfiend, on 20 July 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

According the the boardgame a 1v1 Atlas VS Firefly is always a win for the Atlas, in Mechwarrior 3 (Because 4 was garbage and 2 wasn't advanced enough) depending on the skill of the firefly pilot that Atlas is DEAD.

Which speed did your Firefly have?
The 84Kph Max? Then the Firefly is dead in either Board or Mechwarrior game, because it is easy to hit..
When you boosted it with M3/4 magic... then of course you are fast enough to survive...

And when the Atlas is smart he goes on openground and kills you with his LRM 20..

We Should Compare MW with Battletech Solaris rules.
As the Weapon reload Times are out of it (In the MW games) and basically we have duells and not Big Field Battles.

And i am talking about an Atlas Tech2 level. As the Firefly is Tech2 by itself...
The Er L-Lasers will rip it into Pieces.

Edited by Elkarlo, 20 July 2012 - 01:50 AM.


#26 aresfiend

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 01:50 AM

View PostElkarlo, on 20 July 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

Which speed did your Firefly have?
The 84Kph Max? Then the Firefly is dead in either Board or Mechwarrior game, because it is easy to hit..
When you boosted it with M3/4 magic... then of course you are fast enough to survive...

And when the Atlas is smart he goes on openground and kills you with his LRM 20..

We Should Compare MW with Battletech Solaris rules.
As the Weapon reload Times are out of it (In the MW games) and basically we have duells and not Big Field Battles.

And i am talking about an Atlas Tech2 level. As the Firefly is Tech2 by itself...
The Er L-Lasers will rip it into Pieces.

I'm not going to lie... I have no idea what you just said.

#27 Elkarlo

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:00 AM

MW3 Mechs had a Speed boost against "normal" BT Mech's.

And the Problem ist that there are two Techlevels out. Techlevel 1 and Techlevel 2.

The Firefly is a Techlevel 2 Machine, a standard Atlas Techlevel 1 will have Problems.
Because he has only the LSR20 to fight the Firefly.

An Upgraded Atlas with Techlevel 2 has enough weapons to blast the Firefly into Pieces on distance because he has then two ER-Large-Lasers, a Gaus Cannon and a LSR-20 to take the Firefly when it is approaching...

There are Boardgame rules to improve Odds for smaller Mechs, the Duell Rules from Solaris.
And the MW Games incooperate this Rules. But even with them a Firefly won't stand a Chance, if the Atlas Pilot is not an dumb KI.
In a Mechwarrior game, when you see Light's approaching, you go into Full reverse so they have a longer way to get around you, and kill some of their Speed advantage then you kill them with Lasers, and Close Combat against a Atlas ... then you need to be in the Back of an Atlas... and he got enough Back Armour to survive it, so you simple Back up against a Wall after the first hit... then the Light have to run or it dies a nasty Death.

Edited by Elkarlo, 20 July 2012 - 02:03 AM.


#28 aresfiend

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:04 AM

View PostElkarlo, on 20 July 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

MW3 Mechs had a Speed boost against "normal" BT Mech's.

And the Problem ist that there are two Techlevels out. Techlevel 1 and Techlevel 2.

The Firefly is a Techlevel 2 Machine, a standard Atlas Techlevel 1 will have Problems.
Because he has only the LSR20 to fight the Firefly.

An Upgraded Atlas with Techlevel 2 has enough weapons to blast the Firefly into Pieces on distance because he has then two ER-Large-Lasers, a Gaus Cannon and a LSR-20 to take the Firefly when it is approaching...

There are Boardgame rules to improve Odds for smaller Mechs, the Duell Rules from Solaris.
And the MW Games incooperate this Rules. But even with them a Firefly won't stand a Chance, if the Atlas Pilot is not an dumb KI.

Aaaaand your point is? It's still pretty possible to beat an Atlas in the game by making the pilot lead his shots then as soon as he fires you slow/change speed or direction even if he has a gauss rifle, you don't have that chance in the boardgame.

#29 Elkarlo

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:11 AM

View Postaresfiend, on 20 July 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Aaaaand your point is? It's still pretty possible to beat an Atlas in the game by making the pilot lead his shots then as soon as he fires you slow/change speed or direction even if he has a gauss rifle, you don't have that chance in the boardgame.

Did you see the Footage?
A Gaus bullet will even be Faster then the AC/10 shown there... when you Dodge this i will call you Neo.
And as already said, the AS-7D has two Arm ER-LARGE-LASERS.
Arm weapons will be fast turning, i don't need the Gauss rifle when i can rip you appart with Lasers.

Btw and Yes it is implemented in the Board game, the Faster the Mech runs the Harder it is to hit,
in the Solaris Ruleset you can even do Dodge Actions to make you harder to hit.......
Read the Rules then Complain

Edited by Elkarlo, 20 July 2012 - 02:14 AM.


#30 Thorgar Wulfson

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:15 AM

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#31 ORIGINAL SteelWolf

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:49 AM

View PostElkarlo, on 19 July 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Battlemaster _was_ Unseen, but the Rights are not at Harmony Gold as it is no Macross/Robotech Mech.
And Wizkids got the Rights back to use it.
Theoreticall with the Battletech License bought by Piranha games should be the right to use the
original Battlemaster design.
But why do we need another light mech right now? (only 85 tons)
The Same goes for the Griffin ( Our favourit Recon light mech) Thunderbolt ( Light Scouthunter), Locust (Civilian Transport to the Atlas) and Wolverin/Shadowhawk ( Light recon mech's others call Medium..)

"OK, you asked for it:
Ryosuke Takahashi's anime series Sun's Fang Dougram was created in response to the success of rival Nippon Sunrise's Mobile Suit Gundam, the first giant robot series to incorporate valid mechanical principles into its robot designs. Dougram went Gundam one better, introducing mecha designed with a hard-edged look appropriate to military hardware, one the (sic) reflected Takahashi's darker view of human nature. Takahashi went on to create Armored Trooper Votoms, Round Vernian Vifam, Panzer World Galient and Blue Meteor SPT Layzner, all of which reflected his views of warfare and its effects on victor and vanquished alike. Dougram was, in many ways, a mirror image of Gundam -- a gritty, realistic view of futuristic warfare devoid of glamour.
The setting is the planet Deloyer in the 152nd year of the Space Calendar (SC 152). Deloyer has declared independence from the United Nations Of Earth, which has sent an occupation force to insure continued shipments of the raw materials needed to support Earth's global industrial complex. Their primary weapons are the Combat Armor machines, which range from walking tanks to giant humanoids, all armed with the deadly Linear Guns. The D-7 Dougram is the prototype for a new generation of Combat Armor: stronger, faster and more maneuverable than any of its predecessors. When Denon Cashim, governor of Deloyer, orders the destruction of a rebel stronghold, his son Crinn Cashim takes off in the Dougram and joins the rebel army known as Guerilla...
BattleTech = Sun's Fang Dougram
----------------------- ------------------
BLR-1G BattleMaster = Soltic HT-128 Bigfoot
GOL-1H Goliath = Abitate F44A CrabGunner
GRF-1N Griffin = Soltic H8-RF Roundfacer
SCP-1N Scorpion = Abitate F35C BlizzardGunner
SHD-2H ShadowHawk = D-7 Dougram (JAKT Type)
TDR-5S Thunderbolt = Hasty F4X Ironfoot
WVR-6R Wolverine = Abitate T-10C Blockhead

From http://www.angelfire...ch/mystery.html

Edited by ORIGINAL SteelWolf, 20 July 2012 - 02:50 AM.


#32 Elkarlo

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:54 AM

@Steelwolf.
I was a little unclear:
i wanted to say: Battlemaster is not a Harmony Gold Mech. (Robotech Mech)
So we can have it as the Battletech lizence now include the Reseen i mentioned.
And i have even the Animenia Example all was shown and stated which Mech belongs to which series... but it is somewhere on the Attic.

#33 tvih

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:30 AM

View Postaresfiend, on 20 July 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

According the the boardgame a 1v1 Atlas VS Firefly is always a win for the Atlas, in Mechwarrior 3 (Because 4 was garbage and 2 wasn't advanced enough) depending on the skill of the firefly pilot that Atlas is DEAD.


How does that have any bearing on what I said?

#34 Lycan

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:48 AM

View Postaresfiend, on 20 July 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

I thought MWO was realitme and not turnbased.... This is MECHWARRIOR that we're playing and not BATTLETECH. Keep that in mind. Everything is realtime, turns don't mean anything.


::pours out some gas::

Right . .and you wouldn't have your MECHWARRIOR game if BATTLETECH wasn't involved some how. And, you seem to forget that it's the BATTLETECH TT rules that the dev team is trying to stay as close to as possible. (Making changes were changes make sense . .etc . . )

So while turns don't, technically, mean anything in MWO, the rundown that Pvt Dancer gave still is extremely good and points out WHY the BLR isn't just an "average" mech, or is only "average" in the hands of an "average" pilot.

Either way, it boils down to the fact that it's your opinion that the BLR is average. There are those of us that have seen that it is anything but.

::tosses a match on the puddle and walks away::

Edited by Lycan, 20 July 2012 - 03:48 AM.


#35 MaxFool

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:54 AM

View PostElkarlo, on 20 July 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

The Masters main Advantage for an Assault Class is the Heavy Mech Speed. So it is more than an oversized Heavy Mech in Firepower and Speed, but with a decent Armour. (Like i said Scoutmech.. *cough*) There is a Variant with a Smaller Reactor, then it comes with Dual PPC and enough Heatsinks, and then again it is a good Damagedealer with Ton's of Armor. ( And two PPC in one Arm is very very nice)


I gotta agree with this. I generally love the combination of speed and firepower, only good things come from that combo, and Battlemaster is very close to being the ultimate mech on that. And no sane pilot would charge Battlemaster on open ground after something like Awesome. You obviously cover the distance using as much cover as possible, or stay out of range and do something different. One on one, being faster mech Battlemaster can choose where the battle takes place, or even if it takes place.

#36 Pershaw

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:12 AM

I just know the Battlemaster was very easy to headshot, taking two ppc's to the head for lots of salvage in Mechwarrior 1. =)

#37 Knight2pwn

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 01:37 PM

Pretty sure as has already been said, license crap stops the BM from being in the game. I know we all love a good BM, but this BM may be to hard for them to push out.

#38 SMDMadCow

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:19 PM

View PostKnight2pwn, on 09 August 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Pretty sure as has already been said, license crap stops the BM from being in the game. I know we all love a good BM, but this BM may be to hard for them to push out.


Nope. They could if they wanted but Catalyst isnt using anything that they havent made themselves, therefore Project Phoenix. Check it out on Sarna.net

#39 Theriophonic

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:25 PM

View PostKnight2pwn, on 09 August 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Pretty sure as has already been said, license crap stops the BM from being in the game. I know we all love a good BM, but this BM may be to hard for them to push out.

This is the only relevant thing said in this entire thread.Including this.

#40 SMDMadCow

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 02:31 PM

View PostTheriophonic, on 09 August 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

This is the only relevant thing said in this entire thread.Including this.


Project Phoenix.

Next please.





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