108 replies to this topic

[Brenden]

Cicada
Jenner
Spider
Grasshopper
ALL of these 'mechs have the potential to be Scout Hunters. Hell, the Grasshopper was made to be one.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Grasshopper

[Major Tom]

Brenden, on 19 July 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

Well, why not increase the engine size of a Centurion and equipt it with an LB-X AC/10?

I think you are right, a 50 ton with an arm mounted autocannon is probably going to be the best scout hunter of them all. And XL engines really open the playing field for that weight class.

[Brenden]

Major Tom, on 19 July 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

I think you are right, a 50 ton with an arm mounted autocannon is probably going to be the best scout hunter of them all. And XL engines really open the playing field for that weight class.

Especially a shotgun-like autocannon. If you can't hit him with one pellet, you might hit him with another. Then again, a Grasshopper would be nice. It's a heavy with Jump Jets.

[Kobold]

Brenden, on 19 July 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Hell, the Grasshopper was made to be one.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Grasshopper

Just because something is intended for a purpose, it doesn't mean it is particularly good at it. I think 6/9/6 speed (or at the bare minimum, 5/8/5) with a long ranged energy weapon (so you can take low percentage shots without worrying about running out of ammo) would be ideal. PXH, WVR, energy based CDA variants would be better.

[Hax DB Header]

Kaanon, on 19 July 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Cicada is indeed -nearly- as ominous as an Atlas. The Cicada deserves great respect from lighter mechs but the alphastrike of an Atlas is insta-death. It has to be feared despite it's drunken tree slug pace. My post was in favor of the Cicada as a scout hunter/killer if you hadn't noticed. However, I think the average lightmech still has a reasonable chance against the Cicada.

Atlas alpha strike only matters if the scout screws up and gets anywhere near the front of the Atlas; I'm mostly in control of that so it doesn't worry me.
A Cicada, however, can turn around fast enough to have a chance of hitting me and can then chase after me with a reasonable chance of keeping up at least long enough to chew me up some, possibly long enough to take me out. That is not under my control so it worries me.

[Brenden]

Kobold, on 19 July 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Just because something is intended for a purpose, it doesn't mean it is particularly good at it. I think 6/9/6 speed (or at the bare minimum, 5/8/5) with a long ranged energy weapon (so you can take low percentage shots without worrying about running out of ammo) would be ideal. PXH, WVR, energy based CDA variants would be better.

You could always go with the Centurion. Give it an LB-X AC/10, XL engine, could catch up to it.
And who knows, maybe you could do the same with a Grasshopper. If not, well then it would be a good frontline mech anyway.

Hax DB Header, on 19 July 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Atlas alpha strike only matters if the scout screws up and gets anywhere near the front of the Atlas; I'm mostly in control of that so it doesn't worry me.
A Cicada, however, can turn around fast enough to have a chance of hitting me and can then chase after me with a reasonable chance of keeping up at least long enough to chew me up some, possibly long enough to take me out. That is not under my control so it worries me.

Give you Cicada an AC/5 and aim for the Atlas' arms! If you can't kill it, atleast disarm it as much as you can for others to finish it.

[Shadowscythe]

I am tempted to see how a slow "scout hunter" would do against a 10/15/10 spider with an ERLL LOL

Or

A commando that goes 11/17 with a PPC (or ERLL) lol

Of course those are with XL, ferro, endo

I love it when people say "just put the XL engine in the hunchback with the AC20 to make it go faster" LOL...
BTW. you can't fit an inner sphere XL engine with an inner sphere AC 20...not enough crit slots

Edited by Shadowscythe, 19 July 2012 - 08:02 PM.

[Brenden]

Shadowscythe, on 19 July 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

I am tempted to see how a slow "scout hunter" would do against a 10/15/10 spider with an ERLL LOL

Or

A commando that goes 11/17 with a PPC (or ERLL) lol

Of course those are with XL, ferro, endo

I love it when people say "just put the XL engine in the hunchback with the AC20 to make it go faster" LOL...
BTW. you can't fit an inner sphere XL engine with an inner sphere AC 20...not enough crit slots

I learned something new!
So then why not gives us a freaking Wolfhound already?
It's light, it's a Laser Boat which we could use and best of all, it could be a Scout Hunter.

[Ulbrecht Stormcrow]

Brenden, on 19 July 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

...why not add a flamer or two to over-heat the scout 'mech so that it is forced to Shut down, and then you are free to damage it's legs so that it can't escape, thus enabling you to deliver the killing blow.

Unlike heavy and assault class 'mechs, light 'mechs almost never have heat issues - they simply don't carry enough energy weapons, and are not armored well enough for the sustained firefights needed to build shutdown potential heat levels. As well, the effective range on a flamer makes it exclusively a close in weapon - to use it effectively, you will have to be on top of your opponent and stay there. That means matching them for speed, maneuverability, and piloting skill.

Better off moving matching 70-80% of their top speed and shifting your weapons into a longer range category than that of the 'mechs you are hunting. Your greater reach defeats some of their speed advantage, allowing you to engage before they can return fire, and allowing you to maintain engagement while they attempt to flee/evade. (ER) Large Lasers, and LRMs should fill the majority of your load out. A/C and Gauss have the worst components of missiles and the big energy weapons - they are weighty and require ammo. Since heat won't be an issue for you, your Large Laser/LRM choice will depend primarily on expected terrain.

[Diancecht]

Brenden, on 19 July 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

I learned something new!
So then why not gives us a freaking Wolfhound already?
It's light, it's a Laser Boat which we could use and best of all, it could be a Scout Hunter.

Amen to that brother I love the idea of long term recons

[Major Tom]

Brenden, on 19 July 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

I learned something new!
So then why not gives us a freaking Wolfhound already?
It's light, it's a Laser Boat which we could use and best of all, it could be a Scout Hunter.

The only problem I see with a laser boat is the damage-over-time, you have to keep the target in your sights for a couple seconds. Which is why an autocannon is my favored weapon. Although I think the SRM will be a good weapon (actually I think machine guns would work if you have enough hard points and speed superiority)

[Brenden]

Ulbrecht Stormcrow, on 19 July 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Unlike heavy and assault class 'mechs, light 'mechs almost never have heat issues - they simply don't carry enough energy weapons, and are not armored well enough for the sustained firefights needed to build shutdown potential heat levels. As well, the effective range on a flamer makes it exclusively a close in weapon - to use it effectively, you will have to be on top of your opponent and stay there. That means matching them for speed, maneuverability, and piloting skill.

Better off moving matching 70-80% of their top speed and shifting your weapons into a longer range category than that of the 'mechs you are hunting. Your greater reach defeats some of their speed advantage, allowing you to engage before they can return fire, and allowing you to maintain engagement while they attempt to flee/evade. (ER) Large Lasers, and LRMs should fill the majority of your load out. A/C and Gauss have the worst components of missiles and the big energy weapons - they are weighty and require ammo. Since heat won't be an issue for you, your Large Laser/LRM choice will depend primarily on expected terrain.

Mmm... I think I get what you're saying.
Well, why not then just have -alot- of Pulse lasers, like five small ones on a Cicada running after a Jenner?

Diancecht, on 19 July 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Amen to that brother I love the idea of long term recons

Yay.

Major Tom, on 19 July 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

The only problem I see with a laser boat is the damage-over-time, you have to keep the target in your sights for a couple seconds. Which is why an autocannon is my favored weapon. Although I think the SRM will be a good weapon (actually I think machine guns would work if you have enough hard points and speed superiority)

Machine guns do little damage but high a -very- quick recycle time. Then again, I'd like to see a Jenner with two Small Pulse Lasers, both with a quick recycle time and giving it an SRM-6, or a Cicada with an AC/5. It could snipe it a little and then go after the target. If you like AC Scout hunters, might I suggest a Centurion with an LB-X AC/10 with an XL engine and three small pulse Lasers with an SSRM-2?

[Shadowscythe]

Ulbrecht Stormcrow, on 19 July 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Unlike heavy and assault class 'mechs, light 'mechs almost never have heat issues - they simply don't carry enough energy weapons, and are not armored well enough for the sustained firefights needed to build shutdown potential heat levels.

Not sure about that point
From the vids I have seen there are plenty of points where lights have PLENTY of heat %
And actually have to stop firing so they don't overheat.

Brenden, on 19 July 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

I learned something new!

You could however mount a Gauss Rifle in the torso with the XL engine in a Hunchback . The Gauss Rifle has WAY better range, but only 15 damage instead of 20...more ammo per ton...and a WAY smaller explosion if the gun goes up compared to any AC20 ammo ....Oh, and only 1 heat! For only 1 more ton...If you can't tell, I am a fan of gauss rifles

Edited by Shadowscythe, 19 July 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[Brenden]

Shadowscythe, on 19 July 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Not sure about that point
From the vids I have seen there are plenty of points where lights have PLENTY of heat %
And actually have to stop firing so they don't overheat.



You could however mount a Gauss Rifle in the torso with the XL engine. Has WAY better range, but only 15 damage instead of 20...more ammo per ton...and a WAY smaller explosion if the gun goes up compared to any AC20 ammo ....Oh, and only 1 heat! For only 1 more ton...If you can't tell, I am a fan of gauss rifles

Put a NON laser weapon on a WOLFHOUND? I 'ought to turn you into cornflakes!

[Shadowscythe]

Brenden, on 19 July 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Put a NON laser weapon on a WOLFHOUND? I 'ought to turn you into cornflakes!

Actually I was still talking about the hunchback I meant to only quote the "learn something new" part lol

Edited previous post

Edited by Shadowscythe, 19 July 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Brenden]

Shadowscythe, on 19 July 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Actually I was still talking about the hunchback I meant to only quote the "learn something new" part lol

Oh, well a Hunchie with a Gauss rifle would put it in a good sniper role, maybe take out the small laser for more ammo.

[Shadowscythe]

Yeah, I would take a Gauss Rifle over an AC 20 pretty much whenever I could

[Aidan Malchor]

I would say the wolfhound would be an excellant hunter. Generally doesn't have crazy speed, bit under a hundred I think, 1 LL and 4 mediums (1 rear facing which won't matter for this game). You'd have to know how to manage your heat, but good speed, good firepower and pretty good armor for a light would make it a pretty good scout hunter imo.

[Brenden]

Shadowscythe, on 19 July 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Yeah, I would take a Gauss Rifle over an AC 20 pretty much whenever I could

Though for a scout-hunting 'mech, I think I'd have to choose over the speedy Spider or the heavily armed Jermer. Take out a few of the Jump Jets and you still have a good jumping distance, so you can add more weapons to it. I'd add four medium Pulse Lasers to it. Have a friend of mine team up with me, maybe put him/her in a Cicada and let loose.

Aidan Malchor, on 19 July 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

I would say the wolfhound would be an excellant hunter. Generally doesn't have crazy speed, bit under a hundred I think, 1 LL and 4 mediums (1 rear facing which won't matter for this game). You'd have to know how to manage your heat, but good speed, good firepower and pretty good armor for a light would make it a pretty good scout hunter imo.

I'd say take out that rear facing Medium laser and use it to increase the speed with the freed up tonnage.

[Ulbrecht Stormcrow]

Shadowscythe, on 19 July 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Not sure about that point
From the vids I have seen there are plenty of points where lights have PLENTY of heat %
And actually have to stop firing so they don't overheat.

Only if they are jumping like crickets in a cast iron fry pan. A Spider running full speed generates 2 heat. Add both medium lasers, and its at 8 heat - against a dissipation of 10 per time/unit. So he spikes 8 and bleeds it all off before his medium lasers recharge. Jumping constantly he spikes 14 and can't bleed it all before the next dual laser barrage, but is still in no danger of overheating in the short term unless he jumps again AND fires. For flamers to be effective, you'd have to be on top of where he lands, hit him with (at minimum) paired flamers, and he would need to either jump again or fire both his lasers into you.

Flamers are effective anti-vehicle, anti-infantry, and for either terrorizing civilians or denying visibility in forests - because none of the four have effective heat sinks (there are some vehicular exceptions).

Once double heat sinks enter the battlefield, a jump happy spider pilot will upgrade them first, and weapons second.

Heavies and Assaults, on the other hand, tend to carry enough weaponry that an alphastrike pushes them into heat critical mode immediately, forcing either a cycled fire strategy or dependence on a single barrage followed by a lengthy cool down - firing 3 large lasers while walking is a 25 heat spike... Granted, if you can put them all on the same location, most mechs will drop a (hopefully important) limb. If you miss, however, you are 65+ tons of mass standing there attracting attention while you cool down.

Edited by Ulbrecht Stormcrow, 19 July 2012 - 08:53 PM.