34 replies to this topic

[Elessar]

Well, Battletech/Mechwarrior had a couple of rules for fighting in different environments ...
be it different gravity, toxic atmoshere, different temperatures or even the near vacuum of space.

Well we get the chance to experience combat in these environments with MWO as well?
(for example fighting on a low grav moon w/o atmosphere)

[donkeybas]

That would be neat to see a moon battle, with jumpjet mechs flying around...

From the videos and stuff, the only thing so far that they've stated of weather/map effects is how you have to handle your heat generation.

[JFlash49]

well im not sure as yet but based on what im getting they are trying to spread the range of environments as much as possible. so we can only hope they come through. it would be nice to fight on a moon

[Mordon]

I certainly hope so. I'd also like at least a few maps where you can fully submerge your mech in water... "Strike from the Sea!" (And try not to crack your cockpit window

[JFlash49]

Mordon, on 28 July 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

I certainly hope so. I'd also like at least a few maps where you can fully submerge your mech in water... "Strike from the Sea!" (And try not to crack your cockpit window

that'll be awesome!
"hey is it me or did that rock move?"
"thats no rock its the head of an atlas!!"

[Elessar]

Mordon, on 28 July 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

I certainly hope so. I'd also like at least a few maps where you can fully submerge your mech in water... "Strike from the Sea!" (And try not to crack your cockpit window

Oh yes,
in Battletech Tabletop we once had a pilot who died because his mech fell down in a river and cracked open his head armor

[donkeybas]

Mordon, on 28 July 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

I certainly hope so. I'd also like at least a few maps where you can fully submerge your mech in water... "Strike from the Sea!" (And try not to crack your cockpit window

The only example of underwater was in an older mech game (2, 3?) and it was terrible. But as long as they did it right...

[JFlash49]

donkeybas, on 28 July 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

The only example of underwater was in an older mech game (2, 3?) and it was terrible. But as long as they did it right...

i think it was 3. there was a small part of it in 4 though one of the early missions, but you wouldnt feel it unless you were in a small mech like the uller, cougar etc, bigger mechs just looked they were having a little splash

[Mordon]

JFlash49, on 28 July 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

that'll be awesome!
"hey is it me or did that rock move?"
"thats no rock its the head of an atlas!!"

You make me want to paint my Atlas's head with a moonscape now...

donkeybas, on 28 July 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

The only example of underwater was in an older mech game (2, 3?) and it was terrible. But as long as they did it right...

Certainly, and I'd hope they'd follow the expected restrictions. I think the main advantage would be stealth, at the expense of being mostly blind.

Edited because I put my comment to the first quote inside the second quote.

Edited by Mordon, 28 July 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[SakuranoSenshi]

Short answer is that we just don't really know, yet. Long answer is that is that's an obvious thing to do, we already have the rules we need and they have stated severalt times just how ambitious they are and that they're working hard to implement tabletop rules with changes only made when gameplay demands it because an implementation that works in tabletop doesn't in a realtime interactive game.

With that in mind, I fully expect to see it but possibly not too much of it at launch. On a side note (and I forget what the tabletop rules for this are) vacuum would be hell. You stand to die if you lose cockpit integrity and you cannot lose heat without ejecting matter, i.e. dumping hot coolant, or simply waiting for it to radiate away.

[Kai Harper]

SakuranoSenshi, on 28 July 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

On a side note (and I forget what the tabletop rules for this are) vacuum would be hell. You stand to die if you lose cockpit integrity and you cannot lose heat without ejecting matter, i.e. dumping hot coolant, or simply waiting for it to radiate away.

This would be true...if being out of atmo didn't already put you at close to absolute zero. Heat wouldn't last very long at all, I'd say - depending on how much armor you have between your coolant tanks and the outside, of course.

[Ranek Blackstone]

Kai Harper, on 28 July 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

This would be true...if being out of atmo didn't already put you at close to absolute zero. Heat wouldn't last very long at all, I'd say - depending on how much armor you have between your coolant tanks and the outside, of course.

The temp difference between the light side and dark side of the moon is almost 500 degree's F. You can boil water in the sun light and watch oxygen condense in the dark.
Space is only cold when your either in the dark, or very far away from the local star.

Edited by Ranek Blackstone, 28 July 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[MuffinTop]

Recently there was a thread asking about underwater battles, and then it went on a tangent that touched on what the OP is asking. I see lasers and visibility effectiveness decreased in sandstorms and heavy snow. No I will not copy and paste references from Star Wars Wikipedia or BT wikipedia to support this opinion. Thanks OP for posting this +1

[SakuranoSenshi]

Kai Harper, on 28 July 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

This would be true...if being out of atmo didn't already put you at close to absolute zero. Heat wouldn't last very long at all, I'd say - depending on how much armor you have between your coolant tanks and the outside, of course.

On the contrary and further to the post above, you are nowhere near absolute zero, if you were a ) you were in space a LONG time b ) You're long dead and every power source on your mech is too. Space is not cold, space is mostly empty and thus a really poor conductor and offers no protection from temperature variations due to radiation. If you can see a nice bright sun, you're cooking, if you're in the shade, it's chilly there. However, your own temperature is entirely down to energy produced by you and the rate you're radiating, conducting or convecting it away from you. Ejecting matter is sort of special case of the latter (or you can consider both to be a form of conducting, whatever).

[Insidious Johnson]

Well, if there are harsh storms and such put in at some point, I hope precipitation makes lasers and energy weapons useless by refraction or reflection. One fierce snowstorm full of ice crystals (snowflakes) should do the trick. Also, wind and gravity should have adverse effects on ballistics. The only all weather systems should be guided missiles unless we get a volcanic environment which spew iron shards all over (radar reflective chaff).

[IndigoHawk]

SakuranoSenshi, on 28 July 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

On the contrary and further to the post above, you are nowhere near absolute zero, if you were a ) you were in space a LONG time b ) You're long dead and every power source on your mech is too. Space is not cold, space is mostly empty and thus a really poor conductor and offers no protection from temperature variations due to radiation. If you can see a nice bright sun, you're cooking, if you're in the shade, it's chilly there. However, your own temperature is entirely down to energy produced by you and the rate you're radiating, conducting or convecting it away from you. Ejecting matter is sort of special case of the latter (or you can consider both to be a form of conducting, whatever).

just a little correction:

The temperature in space is close to "absolute zero" because any object there will radiate heat until it cools to that point. This is for objects not exposed to direct sunlight. In Earth orbit, the temperature of objects in sunlight can rise to 120°C/ 250°F. The actual temperature in space is about 3°K (-270°C or three degrees Celsius above Absolute Zero). There are still molecules in space, just very few of them, and this is their temperature.

Absolute zero is a theoretical temperature where the thermal kinetic energy of the molecules in a body goes to zero. This cannot be achieved through artificial or natural means, because there is no way to remove the last small amount of thermal energy. The coldest temperature in space is about 3°K above absolute zero. This is defined as the Cosmic Background (or Microwave Background) Radiation that was first detected by Penzias and Wilson using the Holmdel Horn Antenna in New Jersey, USA in 1965. This radiation quite literally is the echo of the Big Bang.

[SakuranoSenshi]

Space has no temperature because it's (to all intents and purposes) empty, so a small correction right back at you. I wrote what I wrote very precisely, not by accident.

There are molecules in 'space' depending on where in 'space' you are because density varies enormously; the inner solar system is practically soup compared to "outer space" for example but talking about space as being 3 Kelvins is meaningless, really. Also, it's Kelvins, no degrees and definitely no degree symbol. I'm well aware of the scale and its definitions. ;-)

[mrgamerwood]

donkeybas, on 28 July 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

The only example of underwater was in an older mech game (2, 3?) and it was terrible. But as long as they did it right...

JFlash49, on 28 July 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

i think it was 3. there was a small part of it in 4 though one of the early missions, but you wouldnt feel it unless you were in a small mech like the uller, cougar etc, bigger mechs just looked they were having a little splash

What you guys are thinking of is the underwater mission of Mechwarrior 2 Ghost Bear's Legacy. It is a difficult mission but i found it to be fun. I don't know of any underwater levels in Mechwarrior 3, but I have only played the main game due to jump jets not working for me in Pirates Moon. There are no underwater levels in ANY Mechwarrior 4 game but as you said you can fully immerse a small light mech in the water.

[Elessar]

I cannot remember the water level in GBL (has been a long time since MW2)...
but, as Battletech TT has rules for fighting underwater, I see no reason,
not to have an underwater map but hopefully it will eb a situation, where you know beforehand that you´ll fight underwater maps...
after all there are restrictions (LRM/SRM only in their Torpedo version, Ballistic Weapons IIRC functionless, Lasers etc. with reduced range) and I assume, not even a social general will send his mechs on an underwater mission, without in forming them beforehand, so they can prepare

[Noth]

Pretty sure that there are two maps with hostile environments in them. Caustic Valley which is very hot and the snow map which is very cold. They have mentioned the possibility of higher and lower gravity planets, but I highly doubt having any under water or space battles.