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Are there any safeguards in place to prevent MWO from turning into "Assault Mech Online"?


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#1 Doomstrider

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:29 PM

Hello everyone!

Although this is my first post on the forums, I've been lurking about since this game was announced. I've also played every Mechwarrior game since the original (anyone remember the Battlemasters? :)), and I'm thinking of buying one of the Founder's Packages for MWO.

However, as the title suggests, I'm a bit concerned that this game may devolve into an Assault-only brawl. In all previous Mechwarrior games, you had to work your way up from a Light mech--building up your c-bills/honor along the way--until you were finally able to buy/obtain that coveted Heavy or Assault mech.

In this game, however, it appears that players are allowed to pick one "free" mech when they create their account--and from my understanding, that mech can be within any weight class. So, that begs the question: if new players are able to choose whatever mech they want, what's to keep/discourage them from just choosing the Atlas or some other Assault mech (especially if they are unfamilar with the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe)?

Don't get me wrong: I think this game has a ton of potential, and it looks great from everything I've seen/read/heard (kudos to the development team!). I just don't want it to get sideswiped by a legion of roaming Atlases. :D

#2 Graefin Zeppelin

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:31 PM

I am rather sure you mean STEINER online.

And to answer your question. Yes.

#3 Boydsan

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:38 PM

Yes, there are repair bills. The cost to repair an expensive XL engine and heavier weapons is more (because you ahve more of them) on heavier 'mechs than lighter 'mechs. Plus, the game has certain safe guards... you can either win by killing the other team or capturing the enemy base. Once a slow assualt mech is away from the base - it is hard pressed to race back to it if a light or two sneak past everyone. Assualt 'mechs are slow.

Will most people play assaults and heavies...? probably. Will most people rage quit when they have more repair bills and losses than cbills? probably.

#4 Hammish

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:38 PM

Two scouts + LRM boats = better than all the assaults you can bring, anyway.

Well.. until/if the scouts get popped, and assuming the boats are all packing 10-12 tons 'o ammo. ;)

But as the guy above me said.. yeah. Right now everyone brings some goodies, regardless of weight class.. and that's before true class warfare mechanics are even in.

#5 Thornix

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:39 PM

Diferent mechs will have diferent roles. Fear not, the develepers are doing their best to not let this game turn into a mech "food chain".


BTW, I think a lance of "support" mechs (like catapults and madcats, things with long range missles that arn't super slow) can kill a lance of assualt mechs(like atlases, atli, or whatever the plural is) because the support mechs can move faster that assualt mechs and they will be shooting long range missles while walking backwards. I think.

EDIT: I want a Madcat, but I'd choose a Catapult if I had to get a founder mech.

Edited by Thornix, 02 August 2012 - 02:41 PM.


#6 Bluey

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:43 PM

They are making it soon TM

Edited by Bluey, 02 August 2012 - 02:43 PM.


#7 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:43 PM

Well I only have an Atlas because I couldn't get a founding Awesome or Stalker. I am a Wall of combat player. I know my job very well. I coordinate with my flankers and skirmishers and draw as much attention as needed to allow them the time to do their job. Read some of the threads, The light and Medium Jocks have it out for us assault daddies.

I know my role, and will preform it well.

Oh and Hammish. That is a maybe. I'd focus on the boats (not ignoring the scouts) cause once you cripple the bang, scouts can be dealt with with less worry.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 August 2012 - 02:45 PM.


#8 light487

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:48 PM

The 4 "pillars" as the dev team like to call them are the safeguards.. these are the backbone of the design and balancing of the game.

If everyone only ever played Assault mechs, even including the first mech they choose, I will be VERY (EXTREMELY) surprised.. there are just too many people who have played all the other MW games along with TT for this to happen. Add to that the "pillars" and I don't think we're going to see what you are suggesting..

Having said that, it is not impossible for this to happen..

#9 Python46

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:49 PM

given the mobility of the lights and meds, the sparsity of armor on the back of an atlas and the extremely slow speed a 100 ton mech moves at, the atlas will not rule the battlefield any more than it did in any of the books, or in the TT. lights and meds that can jump will simply jump over and behind an atlas and core him from behind. in that way, it's going to be similar to what you see in WoT, with tier 10 heavy tanks and tier 9 TDs. yes, they are deadly from the front, but from the rear, they are very vulnerable, and their mobility, in most cases, renders them easy targets for the faster, more agile tanks. even the lower tiers are able to pen rear armor on the top heavies. so the game will self-regulate, simply because there will be good pilots in smaller mechs who know how to use them and know the weaknesses of the assault mechs, which, in every case, begins with the back. and keep in mind, also, the all mechs have weak head armor. 9 points, unless they've changed that, so the head, especially that big dome atop an atlas, are particularly vulnerable to frontal assault.

regardless, a lot of starter players will pick a heavy or assault mech, because they can take more punishment, in frontal assault situations. that's just the nature of learning a new game. if you don't know how to play it, you take something that gives you the best survivability, most of the time, and most people see 100 tons as survivable. they will learn the hard way, if they rely on it too much.

#10 Gail Piazzi

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:01 PM

I've found that at cons and whatnot, assault preference is actually kinda rare. I've never been at a table where there were a shortage of lights and mediums, and I'm usually one of the few that insists on bringing an assault lance to everything. I don't know if the community here will be different, but I'm not worried about facing hordes of munchkins.

#11 Kasak

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:04 PM

It is incredibly exciting to run a light mech into a bunch of heavies/assault mechs, running around them and a few pieces of cover so they never know which way you will come out all while picking on them with small lasers and maybe a srm launcher.
To tie up some 250tonnes while you only weigh 35 or even 25 yourself.
This should get your team the win, it often does for me when I succeed in ******* off a lance of big guys, sometimes they oneshot my arse, by a lucky leg hit or by knocking me over, but mostly I stay on my foot and do a shitload more damage to them than they do to me - besides keeping them fumbling after me like a hillbilly after his greased up pig.

#12 Boydsan

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:04 PM

View PostPython46, on 02 August 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

given the mobility of the lights and meds, the sparsity of armor on the back of an atlas and the extremely slow speed a 100 ton mech moves at, the atlas will not rule the battlefield any more than it did in any of the books, or in the TT. lights and meds that can jump will simply jump over and behind an atlas and core him from behind. in that way, it's going to be similar to what you see in WoT, with tier 10 heavy tanks and tier 9 TDs. yes, they are deadly from the front, but from the rear, they are very vulnerable, and their mobility, in most cases, renders them easy targets for the faster, more agile tanks. even the lower tiers are able to pen rear armor on the top heavies. so the game will self-regulate, simply because there will be good pilots in smaller mechs who know how to use them and know the weaknesses of the assault mechs, which, in every case, begins with the back. and keep in mind, also, the all mechs have weak head armor. 9 points, unless they've changed that, so the head, especially that big dome atop an atlas, are particularly vulnerable to frontal assault.

regardless, a lot of starter players will pick a heavy or assault mech, because they can take more punishment, in frontal assault situations. that's just the nature of learning a new game. if you don't know how to play it, you take something that gives you the best survivability, most of the time, and most people see 100 tons as survivable. they will learn the hard way, if they rely on it too much.


The only problem of thinking MechWarrior and battletech is like WoT (World of Tanks) is this:

1. It is possible, from day 1 to get on an assault 'mech.

2. 'Mechs do not have different types of armor rating to prevent lighter 'mechs from hurting them. In general, they have more armor - but not always stronger armor (this is pre-clan and pre-3050). 1 medium laser will damage a 25 ton light (like the Commando) with the same damage as a 100 ton Atlas. The only difference is that the 100 ton Atlas has the potential to absorb more damage since it can afford to put more armor on itself than a small 25 ton Commando, for instance.

3. As you pointed out, rear armor and head armor is still weak. A huge slow moving 100 ton Atlas will not be able to manuever as fast as a nimble light mech (like the Jenner or Commando). So a good light pilot can kill a 100 ton 'mech.

4. In WoT, some tanks were OP - over powered with their gun design, shells, and armor thickness. All battlemechs are more or less equal in Battletech and MechWarrior. Light 'mechs can, in theory, carry the same type of weapons as an assualt. They are only limited by weight and internal critical space. A 25 ton Commando will find it vertually impossible to field a Gauss Rifle (Since Gauss Rifle has a weight of 14 tons and you need atleast 1 additional ton for the ammo - if not more for multiple shots). While an Atlas has no problem outfitting a single Gauss Rifle with multiple tons of ammo for the weapon.

#13 Stalgrim

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:18 PM

Remember, no matter HOW good the idea of bopping around the warzone in an Atlas looks, after a few hours/minutes of being ripped to shreads by faster moving mechs you will quickly reconsider and pick something a little bit more balanced.

The downside of having a 100 ton 'mech with unmatched weapons and armor is that you move slower than an "Asthmatic ant carrying some heavy shopping" and have an awful time shooting anything as small as a Jenner spinning around you faster than you can turn. It doesn't matter that you can kill a Jenner in literally seconds if you never even get the chance to land ONE shot. For all of my love for the Atlas I still have to consider the downsides are incredibly severe. You can't play Atlas as a lone ranger, you're too immobile, you may have top level weapons but you have a harder time hitting anything, you may have lots of armor but you also get focused a lot.

Oh, and that's just the IN-GAME downsides, you have to think of the downsides to the opperation and maintainance of an Atlas, someone has to pay fot that 100 tons of machinery, not even counting the repair of the actual 'mech you have to consider how much it costs just to keep an Atlas stocked up on Ammo, all of those rockets and bullets aren't free you know, and just think how little chance you have to mess around with builds and other 'mechs when a huge chunk of your income is going directly towards keeping the colossal war machine moving?

-Slow moving.
-Vulnerable
-Expensive
-Can't really kill light mechs
-Always focused
-Can't give chase
-Constantly bombarded by rockets
-Constantly harassed
-Always needs his team in order to be effective

All of those things are up against

-Lots of guns
-Lots of armor

Doesn't quite look so good now, does it? I just hope new players are informed about this in stuff incase they pick an Atlas and then say:



(P.S Oh, and I LIKE the Atlas...even with it's many, many glaring flaws it's still my main mech, I chose it when I was an Elite Founder but I then upgraded to Legendary.)

Edited by Stalgrim, 02 August 2012 - 03:23 PM.


#14 Gail Piazzi

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:23 PM

That is another thing I forgot about. May as well have a bullseye painted on your chest if you're driving anything over 80 tons.

Drop an assault mech in on a mechgrinder competition and it's amazing how quickly every gun on the board gets pointed at you. I remember I jumped in the game once and first round I was effective quite literally everything shot at me. I was an Atlas at the beginning of firing and reduced to half a head, a gyro, and a pair of legs at the end of the same round... Whoops.

#15 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:27 PM

Why does everyone seem to be thinking one on one? A Mech no matter the tonnage is going to win the game. It's going to take team workand a variety of weapon's platforms to be successful in the game.

The assault Mech back armor is weak? Not compared to the front armor of many Light Mechs!

Light Mechs are fast. Pulse lasers are faster! The back and forth on this topic is as old as the game is. Can't we just love the ride we choose and blast the crap out of each other. In the name of friendship!

Quote

-Slow moving
far reaching
.

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-Vulnerable
Compared to....

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-Expensive
Undisputed, more materials costs more!

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-Can't really kill light mechs
I have never seen this outcome!

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-Always focused
This is a good thing.

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-Can't give chase
Again long reach.

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-Constantly bombarded by rockets
That we shrug off while lighter rides have to hide.

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-Constantly harassed
LOL You haven't heard me picking on a Light mech have you! I can do it quite well ;)

Quote

-Always needs his team in order to be effective
Really? You think this is only true for Assaults?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 August 2012 - 03:36 PM.


#16 Stalgrim

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:46 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 August 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Random inaccurate stuff


We'd have to take this to beta forum, all I can say is that most of this is boastful "oh yeah well when I'm in an Atlas dem dur lights best watch out iffen ya know what I'm sayin'! hyuckhyuck!"

#17 Gail Piazzi

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:48 PM

XD Dad's usually the medium/heavy pilot. I'm the 'considers anything under 80 tons to be infantry' type. He likes to think he can play devil's advocate.

#18 Doomstrider

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:49 PM

I would just like to say "thanks" to everyone for the great responses! I think I'm now one step closer to pulling the trigger on a Founder's package. Now I just need to figure out which one to buy! ;)

#19 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:57 PM

View PostStalgrim, on 02 August 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:


We'd have to take this to beta forum, all I can say is that most of this is boastful "oh yeah well when I'm in an Atlas dem dur lights best watch out iffen ya know what I'm sayin'! hyuckhyuck!"
Did I say that Stalgrim? I'm a team player. I play my roll as the wall of battle. I do not chide my friends who excel at the recon role, Others are flankers, or snipers, or indirect fire masters. I want all of them on my team. Because my big bad Assault Mech... Is nothing against the enemy forces if it is alone.

As for boasting both sides are guilty of it and it is out of love for their field of expertise. I'm a former Infantry Marine, ask me about what I think of an Army Dog or a Navy Squid? To me it's just friendly banter that gets outta hand. Cause we all wanna think our ride is the best death dealing thing on the field of battle. I have played every weight class of Mech there is, I have Beaten a star of Clan Omnis in a Locust IIC.

I like having a thick skin and heavy guns so I can one shot kill my enemies. It's my style.

I am however happy to see my favorite Medium is already in game. I love the Centurion. Liao variant with the Large Laser. I went 12-0 in a local Solaris Tourney in it. I will definitely be adding it to my garage ASAP!

Also Doom, Get the Atlas. Even if you don't want the ride itself, it will sell for a great deal of C-bills and you can better custom a heavy , medium or maybe two Lights! Method to the madness, planning! Good times!!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 August 2012 - 04:08 PM.


#20 Gail Piazzi

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:10 PM

That's the thing. I know you like the big guns, but I always gave you puppy eyes until you gave me the big guns so I think of you more in mediums. XD Because you can rock the mediums. I am a definite one trick pony.





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