114 replies to this topic

[Balls of Steele]

DireWolf307, on 25 May 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

Sun-Tzu Liao is a coward and a tyrant. How can anyone like a man that sends bodyguards to fight in his 'mech for him, while sitting back and taking all the credit for everything everyone else does?

Sun-Tzu is a slimy snake, just like the rest of his family, with the exception of our beloved Candace.

You should be thankful it was Sun Tzu that conquered St Ives. If it had been Romano there wouldn't have been a Compact left to integrate.

Sun Tzu is a man that has a very specific set of talents and uses them almost exclusively to benefit his nation and the Capellan people. He is selfless and logical in a way Maximillian and Romano never were, he doesn't see slights against the Confederation as personal insults, as Romano did, he sees them objectively and combats them accordingly.

He is vital to the Confederation, that much is obvious to anybody. He wouldn't simply risk his own life for such petty concepts as honour or vanity, he knows his own value and what his loss would cost the nation, again an entirely objective view. That said, he has fought during the Jihad, when the morale value was needed.

Does all that make him a slimy snake? I like to think Sun Tzu would say if it benefits the Confederation then sure, he is a slimy snake.

Edited by Balls of Steele, 25 May 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[DireWolf307]

Balls of Steele, on 25 May 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

You should be thankful it was Sun Tzu that conquered St Ives. If it had been Romano there wouldn't have been a Compact left to integrate.

Sun Tzu is a man that has a very specific set of talents and uses them almost exclusively to benefit his nation and the Capellan people. He is selfless and logical in a way Maximillian and Romano never were, he doesn't see slights against the Confederation as personal insults, as Romano did, he sees them objectively and combats them accordingly.

He is vital to the Confederation, that much is obvious to anybody. He wouldn't simply risk his own life for such petty concepts as honour or vanity, he knows his own value and what his loss would cost the nation, again an entirely objective view. That said, he has fought during the Jihad, when the morale value was needed.

Does all that make him a slimy snake? I like to think Sun Tzu would say if it benefits the Confederation then sure, he is a slimy snake.

I will give Sun-Tzu this, the fact that he didn't turn out to be a raging lunatic like his mother.

But that's about all I'll concede.

[Cardosis]

Free St. Ives!!! Death to the tyrant!!!

[Balls of Steele]

DireWolf307, on 25 May 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

I will give Sun-Tzu this, the fact that he didn't turn out to be a raging lunatic like his mother.

But that's about all I'll concede.

A concession...how very Capellan.

[Merovek Hetzau]

I never understood how simply being a Warrior has always been considered the main qualification to lead a successor state. The reason the other states are still in decline while we Capellans grew under Sun-Tzu is precisely because he educated to be a Statesmen born to rule and interstellar empire. He would not, and should not concern himself with leading from the front on a constant basis. Why must a leader be only a Warrior and not also a Strategist? He was able to take back St. Ives and the Sarna march precisely because he has the sense to think ahead several steps before his adversaries.

Balls of Steele made a great point in his post.
"]He is vital to the Confederation, that much is obvious to anybody. He wouldn't simply risk his own life for such petty concepts as honour or vanity, he knows his own value and what his loss would cost the nation, again an entirely objective view. That said, he has fought during the Jihad, when the morale value was needed."

A good leader is a worthless one if he is dead on his mech on some backwater battlefield. He applies his talent where they are best used.

[Anton Lysenko]

Merovek Hetzau, on 28 May 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

A good leader is a worthless one if he is dead on his mech on some backwater battlefield. He applies his talent where they are best used.

I agree. Sort of like Hanse's older brother, Ian.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ian_Davion

[Justin Wolf]

The Holy Son of the Celestial Throne will be one of the greatest rulers the Inner Sphere will ever see. The Chancellor's son will bring us from the brink of the abyss back to our rightful place as a true power of the Sphere. Not even the Fox can claim to have the cunning of the future Chancellor. The Davion dogs sucker punched an old man with an unstable mind. Sun Tzu fought against the best and brightest his enemy had to fight him.
For the sanctity of Sian
Body blood and bones for the Confederation.

[Lethal Joke]

Sun-Tzu? I like him. The guy who wrote The Art of War, right? No? Nuts.

The Liao leader I can respect for at least having read up on his Machiavelli. But I serve no hereditary title.


...wait, wasn't it a different Liao in charge of the Cappie Confederation at MW:O's launch? That crazy mother of his, maybe?

[Aldous]

He's competent.

[Adridos]

Lethal Joke, on 06 June 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

...wait, wasn't it a different Liao in charge of the Cappie Confederation at MW:O's launch? That crazy mother of his, maybe?

Yes, his mother. But she dies a liitle after Clans invade.

[Alpha Six]

Ok, Cappellans don't shoot me.

I like Sun Tzu for the same reasons I liked Hanse Davion...

Both leaders were ruthless, brilliant and self serving. They executed brilliant schemes and even their enemies knowing what was coming could not stop them. I'll grant that Sun Tzu might get a reputation bump because he is the ONLY person in his entire family that is sane, but then again that is what is so great about him. Sun Tzu built a crumbling empire into something respectable.

(I'm still not a fan of the totalitarian way the cappelans run things, but at least sun tzu isn't having people tortured to prove their loyalty.

[Adridos]

Alpha Six, on 07 June 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

I'll grant that Sun Tzu might get a reputation bump because he is the ONLY person in his entire family that is sane, but then again that is what is so great about him. Sun Tzu built a crumbling empire into something respectable.

(I'm still not a fan of the totalitarian way the cappelans run things, but at least sun tzu isn't having people tortured to prove their loyalty.

You actually stereotype Confederation for 4th SS era.

Before and after, we had normal rulers and not such a totalitarian regime.

[HustlerOne]

While 'm as big a fan of personal freedoms as anyone, the Capellan Confederation had been getting crapped on for so long that an authoritarian government where everything was done for the good of the state was pretty much required to ensure the Confederation continued existing. I also support the need for each Capellan to earn his citizenship, and the emphasis on education. Sun Tzu simply took this mindset to the next level, and the Capellan Confederation became that much stronger for it. Patriotism was at an all time high during his rule, he returned countless worlds to the Capellan fold, and he made powerful allies in places other houses where to dumb to look/take seriously. The guy gets my vote (or at least he will in a few years).

Edited by HustlerOne, 07 June 2012 - 09:10 AM.

[Alpha Six]

Adridos, on 07 June 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

You actually stereotype Confederation for 4th SS era.

Before and after, we had normal rulers and not such a totalitarian regime.

That may be glossing over some of the past leaders like Elias (The patriarch of the family) and Kalvin (Established the entire current form of Liao government) .

[Lipot]

Bah, there is only one rule when it comes to dealing with any Liao. Make sure you get your full C-Bill payment up front! Sun Tzu is no better then the rest of the family. A Kurita contract is better then a Liao contract. You know at least you are being used as cannon fodder with them. Plus their damn liason officers that the family likes to employ is just too much. Damn guy makes the clans look good.

[Kithmar]

Out of Character I like Sun-Tzu, he's rather brilliant, but he's bat-**** crazy sometimes too, just like his mother.

[rilianv]

any body who has ever read the battletech series would know that out of all the chancellors the capellan confederation ever had, Sun Tzu was the best leader they ever had. He turned the whole nation from being the laughing stock of the inner sphere, into a threat to any other realm. he even reclaimed most of the world his grandfather had lost in the 4th succession war.
during the jihad, he managed to keep his realm intact against assaults from world of blake and federated suns forces and even launched a massive counterstrike against the federated suns that made it all the way to New Syrtis.

[Adridos]

Lipot, on 07 June 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Bah, there is only one rule when it comes to dealing with any Liao. Make sure you get your full C-Bill payment up front! Sun Tzu is no better then the rest of the family. A Kurita contract is better then a Liao contract. You know at least you are being used as cannon fodder with them. Plus their damn liason officers that the family likes to employ is just too much. Damn guy makes the clans look good.

You really can't speak in character, nor real life, since we employ the biggest number of merc groups in the whole IS. Also, those which serve us well get new tech and recruits from the Confederation. That's worlds apart from Kuritan "Kill all merc dogs" way of dealing with you.

[Bastard Ken]

Bestow rewards without respect to customary practice; publish orders without respect to precedent. Thus you may employ the entire army as you would one man.

[Adridos]

******* Ken, on 14 June 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

Bestow rewards without respect to customary practice; publish orders without respect to precedent. Thus you may employ the entire army as you would one man.

Wrong Sun-Tzu.