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Clan honor and gameplay


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#1 Stormwolf

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 11:48 AM

I know that any and all Clan factions are still a long way down the road, but I'd already like to offer some advice to balance them out against the I.S. factions. Otherwise we'll get a huge influx of players who are only interested in having the best toys.

Use what has always been used, the honor levels. Many scenariobooks (especially the old ones) describe how Clan honor works. Only now honor should be linked to your mech selection options, the more honorable you are the better mechs you get. Dishonorable warriors get stuck with secondline mechs and leftovers from the Star League.

Dishonorable conduct like ganging up on weaker mechs should be punished. Total Warfare already has a number of rules in place when it comes to handling Zellbrigen.

I'd prefer stuff like:

1. Don't interfere with two mechs that are already fighting (no ganging up, otherwise lose honor)
2. A Clan warrior can engage multiple enemies at the same time if the other side has more mechs (gain honor)
3. Kill a enemy of lower tonnage (gain very little honor or no honor at all)
4. Kill a enemy of higher tonnage (the higher the weight difference, the more honor)
5. Killing a enemy Clan mech will net you more honor then a I.S. mech.
6. Stealing kills from other warriors will result in a massive reduction of honor.
7. Taking out a enemy with physical attacks should result in a minor honor reduction

I've also had some ideas for the bidding system, but I'll post them at a later point.

Any thoughts on this?

Edited by stormwolf, 01 November 2011 - 11:49 AM.


#2 saber15

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 12:14 PM

This actually sounds pretty good. Steal-killing might be a bit odd to implement, as the game might think that a guy accidentally spraying a Mgun across an enemy means he's going to duel him, and anyone else shooting him would loose honor.

Regarding the influx of players to Clans if/when they're implemented, I highly doubt that the Clans will be the unstoppable godlike killing machines they were in the boardgame - it'll probably be more like MW4 where it's better as a whole or easier to use, but makes some sacrifices (ie clan ballistics are super light, but reload slightly slower than the much heavier IS).

#3 mithril coyote

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 12:34 PM

by the rules of Zellbrigen, spraying a target with a machinegun does effect the honor of the firing unit. if the target is not in a duel, it launches one. if the target is in a duel, it counts as interfering. even accidentaly.

the whole point was to limit collateral damage by forcing clan pilots to aim their shots more effectively. to avoid over penalizing the player for accidental hits, you could tie the loss of honor to the amount of damage inflicted. so say, a 1% reduction in the armor (from say a machinegun hit) would reduce it by only a few points, but an accidental hit from say, an AC20 would reduce it a lot more.

kill stealing would be the hard one to program. how do you define it? by damage? if i'm fighting a light mech with a light mech, and a hunchback cores my target with the AC20, the hunchback did more damage than i have..so do i get penalized despite him stealing the kill?
or do you go by last shot..at which point what happens if someone else cripples my target, but i fire the shot that finishes it off?


my suggestion would be to put a penalty to any character who fires on a target already in a duel with someone else...with the person interfering not getting any honor from the kill, and the person in the duel receiving a reduced amount based on the amount of damage inflicted, not the nature of the target.


in regartds to the official canon rules of zell...the only ones i'd ignore are the ones about leaving line of sight and weapons range. given this will be mostly urban battles, enforcing those would make following the rules of zell way too difficult.

#4 Chris Fetladral

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:43 PM

Truth to tell, following the rules of Zellbrigen will be difficult. Even though it makes the game more enticing (from a clan pov), it will only really work against other units playing by the same rules.


Take interferring with a duel for instance. If the other player agrees to such, then I can understand. But seeing how, in a mass engagement, it only applies to clan units, how does one designate an 'interference' when, in the innersphere school of combat, "ganging up" is a usual practice?

That is how the the clans fought in the beginning of the Invasion- Zellbrigen, but as the series progressed, the Invading clans somewhat switched tactics to more of an IS way of conduct- (jade falcon's gamma galaxy against Archer Christofri in a Trial of Annihilation).

I believe the only way such a rule could be implimented is if the two pilots were to take their battle elsewhere or if a code or button was implimented that informs players that Zellbrigen is between two designated players.

#5 Amarus Cameron

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:44 PM

I know not what other clans will say but I know that Clan Smoke Jaguar will fight with honor.


Except for Vahilior...who is a dezgra surat...and he knows it...*bursts out into song* Hide yo wounded, hide your officers!*

Edited by Amarus Cameron, 01 November 2011 - 01:46 PM.


#6 Darklord

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:48 PM

You will always have the player that will play to win at all cost
In my mind the balance with Clan vs Inner Sphere is going to be one of the
hardest hurdles this game will have if and when they bring in the Clans

DL

#7 SquareSphere

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:51 PM

You'd have to have it be enforceable in game dynamics. Trying to enforce Honor RP in any online game is a losing battle. The Battletech folk incorporated clan honor, high battle value, and low numbers to try and balance their overpowerd tech against the existing IS units.

#8 Amarus Cameron

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:52 PM

Pit us against 2 lances for one star, we can handle the number disparity. In fact we can handle it and run with zellbringen...and win, like bosses

#9 Stormwolf

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 02:26 PM

View PostAmarus Cameron, on 01 November 2011 - 01:52 PM, said:

Pit us against 2 lances for one star, we can handle the number disparity. In fact we can handle it and run with zellbringen...and win, like bosses


This, I've got a feeling that the match setups are going to be like this.

Though I hope that there's going to be a bidding system where everybody tries to one up each other.

#10 Ossie

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 02:31 PM

I have no idea how the game will work, and I'm certain my own ideas are somewhat off from how things will go down, but if it involves anything resembling two or more teams battling it out to achieve certain objectives, then these types of gameplay restrictions would be terrible additions.

The preference of breaking a unit-on-unit engagement down into individual duels by tonnage, while perhaps a valid assessment in some rare situations, just seems counter-intuitive for the mere sake of making an impression of good-will on the opposition. Divide-and-conquer, isolate-and-overwhelm, whatever you want to call it, if I get left a smoking ruin in the face of multiple, heavier adversaries, I don't expect to be frustrated at anybody but myself and my teammates for the thorough ****-kicking, and I wouldn't expect members of that opposing team to suffer a penalty for their success.

In regards to simple mechanics of gaining XP and credits or whatever, I suppose it makes sense that a system be in place to adjust rewards in proportion to tonnage piloted and tonnage killed, and it will be interesting to see how the game is structured.and how they tie these things in.

#11 taxman

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 03:18 PM

Sigh !!

Impossible to implement .

Sadly what you are asking for will not happen (IMHO).

Rules & Conduct set down for a table top game are good for that Genre.

In War Nothing, I repeat, Nothing is ever Fair. Real life has taught us that lesson.
As I see it Teamwork will be the Key to survival and progression in this game.
Save your Honor and your posturing for your Forums.
Honor yourself and your fellow team mates by Surviving and winning a campaign.
If the only part of a mech you can see is its foot then blow it off... If the only Part of a mech you can see is the Cockpit , then blow it off and enjoy the salvage reward.
Honor yourself by being the best you can be.
Remember IS have no Honor code and would use your Honor code against you .

So while you are merily engaged in a circle of Death with an Atlas having envoked Zellbrigen Do not disgrace yourself by crying in open chat... stop legging me.... or as your lifeless Mech hits the Deck after your cockpit has been reduced to ash..
scream Head shots are not allowed..... You will be dead... no more... and we your team mates will have to complete the mission without you.

Remember this will be an online game only and your game play will be dictated by the game designers. If legs can be destroyed then they are valid Targets.

Quaff ?

#12 FaydeShift

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 03:21 PM

Though I like the idea, isn't MWO set in 3025, well before the Clan invasion anyway? Not sure what they plan on doing, but it would throw everything out of wack if they had Clan vs Inner Sphere in 3025, due to the Inner Sphere having very limited technology.

In reference to your comment on the Star League left overs, arn't the Star League 'mechs more advanced since the House wars had a reverse effect on technology... Thought the Clans used Star League technology in the first place... I could be wrong though, it's been a while.

#13 Darklord

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:35 AM

View PostFaydeShift, on 01 November 2011 - 03:21 PM, said:

Though I like the idea, isn't MWO set in 3025, well before the Clan invasion anyway? Not sure what they plan on doing, but it would throw everything out of wack if they had Clan vs Inner Sphere in 3025, due to the Inner Sphere having very limited technology.

In reference to your comment on the Star League left overs, arn't the Star League 'mechs more advanced since the House wars had a reverse effect on technology... Thought the Clans used Star League technology in the first place... I could be wrong though, it's been a while.

Time line for thje game starts yesterday as 10/31/ 3048 and each day is a day in the game so launch date will be sometime 2012 that means it will be the year 3049

DL

#14 Stormwolf

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:04 AM

View Posttaxman, on 01 November 2011 - 03:18 PM, said:

Sigh !!

Impossible to implement .

Sadly what you are asking for will not happen (IMHO).

Rules & Conduct set down for a table top game are good for that Genre.

In War Nothing, I repeat, Nothing is ever Fair. Real life has taught us that lesson.
As I see it Teamwork will be the Key to survival and progression in this game.
Save your Honor and your posturing for your Forums.
Honor yourself and your fellow team mates by Surviving and winning a campaign.
If the only part of a mech you can see is its foot then blow it off... If the only Part of a mech you can see is the Cockpit , then blow it off and enjoy the salvage reward.
Honor yourself by being the best you can be.
Remember IS have no Honor code and would use your Honor code against you .

So while you are merily engaged in a circle of Death with an Atlas having envoked Zellbrigen Do not disgrace yourself by crying in open chat... stop legging me.... or as your lifeless Mech hits the Deck after your cockpit has been reduced to ash..
scream Head shots are not allowed..... You will be dead... no more... and we your team mates will have to complete the mission without you.

Remember this will be an online game only and your game play will be dictated by the game designers. If legs can be destroyed then they are valid Targets.

Quaff ?


It's quiaff.

MW2 already had a honor system, it could also deduce wether or not you were responsible for a direct kill.

Anyway, you should really read this article by deathshadow to know what it means to be a Clan warrior:

Quote

[indent]Sheesh, boards are only up for five hours and I've already got four PM's asking me to repost this.

What it means to be a Clan Warrior

My distaste for how the clans are currently handled and played, compared to how the players I knew back in the early 90's handled them is well known. The clans of the early 90's are so completely different from the ‘soft’ clans of today.

Perhaps my biggest problem is the Wardens behavior running contrary to the philosophy they claim to follow. Look at true old-school clan warfare as handed down by Nicholas: Warriors fight on the battlefield minimizing damage to infrastructure and civilians, isolating the populace from the horrors of war. The Inner Sphere illustrates this lesson to them, waging total war and the Wardens just roll over and take it. Worse, many begin to adopt the same tactics. If anything, the mere existence of forces fighting by Inner Sphere standards should be a rally cry for the Wardens to want to remove said forces from existence, as they endanger their own people with their practices. The hypocrisy shown by the Wardens on the whole bothers me no end.

Truthfully, I am amazed the clans did not pack up the whole invasion and turn the invasion corridor about 180 degrees when Kali started lobbing nerve gas around. The clans a people who waged a war of genocide against part of their own nation for using a nuke on a city they spent the time to evacuate first; the wardens with their so called high ideals should have been first in line proposing the annihilation of House Liao.

Between their unwillingness to use might to make right, and the fact that no less than two warden clans are willing to be little more than Mercenaries to the great houses, I cannot believe that said clans ever were part of any sort of great warrior tradition, and certainly those who play them generally seem unable to play a people whose viewpoint and morality should be so radically different from their own.

Malicious Intent:
A Warrior is one trained in the art of killing.
A Warrior is one who kills without regret.
A Warrior is one who leaves dead enemies in his wake because he knows the dead can never harm him.


I think a lot of this stems from most players not being able to grasp what being a Warrior first means, or the concept of "might makes right" that is an inherent part of it. I often say the best way to play clan is to always remember - "We are the strong, and the strong shall rule!", to which I often hear responses like "I cannot grasp concepts like manifest destiny."

Cannot understand/play manifest destiny? Then what the {censored} are you doing playing the Clans?

Just the mere way people play Clans in battles runs contrary to the training and lifestyle we have seen for warriors. They put the ideal of surviving to win a bloodname ahead of the actions necessary to be considered to enter the trial to win one! One does not retreat from a battle with a functioning ‘Mech and get nominated for one of the bloodname slots. One does not even retreat from superior odds and get considered for a bloodname. It is the warriors who survive against impossible odds remaining on field past the point the average person would consider sane that get nominated. The flashy showy victory with the lowest force is what a clan warrior is bred for. It is the ENTIRE reason for the bidding system.

I cannot believe anyone would bid an assault with more force than the enemy has; that is pure nonsense and no road to advancement. I repeatedly encounter players who consider the cutdown to be 10-20% over the force they are facing. Gutless cowards; any freebirth scum can win a battle with more strength than the enemy, and this is no way for a clan warrior to behave.

But then, people focus on winning being more important than honor; Using certain characters as the focal point of their supporting arguments. What they forget is those who use dishonorable tactics are often derided by their peers for such should it ever be known. A victory without honor is no victory among the clans, should the loss of face become public knowledge. Such behavior is easily the grounds for unseating a Loremaster or even a Khan; imagine what it would do to a normal warrior. Their road to a bloodname would quickly disappear, should they even be allowed to remain a member of their Clan.

One of the keys to the warrior mindset is no surrender, no retreat. If you give up fighting while your body still draws breath, you are violating everything clan training is supposed to instill. Clan training is brutal and uses live weapons for a reason; and not the one most people think of. It is plain as day once you know to look for it.

In several novels, most notably "Lost Destiny", we are informed that the clans are ‘but mayflies’, going through twelve generations of warriors in 60 years. That’s five years per ‘generation’. Since the average clan Touman seems to remain fairly fixed in size, this means a 20% turnover of personnel yearly under normal conditions.

Where does this 20% go? While certainly a handful is tested out of the warrior caste, that number must be fairly low since most warriors would rather die than not continue as warriors... Many of these likely take their own lives; they were the pinnacle of evolution and society, being anything less is unacceptable.

While a number end up in Solahma units, those that do are sent there for one purpose and one purpose only; to die as a warrior should, weapon in hand ready to meet their fate.

Bloodname
If they ran out of ammo, they were to use their knives. If they lost their knives, they must go after the nearest enemy with their bare hands. If their hands were broken, they must kick the enemy with their feet. If their feet were shot off, they must crawl to the enemy warrior and try in some other way to kill them. If they could not crawl, then they must fire into the nearest brush. If they could not move, then they must wait to die. If they could not die, then there must be something wrong with their attitude.

Even this group must be a fairly small number; The Clans are a bit like the klingons in this regard:
"Look around you, there are no old warriors."
"No sir, I’m sure they died with honor."


So where does the remainder go? Simple, they {Censored} DIE. In battle; as warriors... No surrender, no retreat. The bid is simply a means of controlling the rate of attrition. The clans are in a constant state of war, always attacking and raiding each-other. In war, Soldiers die. Get used to it. If anything I think a 20% yearly mortality rate shows a fair degree of restraint and control.

When I say this to people, they often go "That is a waste of resources" or "How could they maintain that scale of losses"... We’ll get to hardware resources later, but for now let us look at the ‘waste’ in terms of manpower.

The Clans can MAKE PEOPLE; as many as they like; at will! In all probability it would less cost than a ‘Mech or a tank. All you have to do is just churn out ten thousand or so sibbies a year; the constant testing weeds out the truly inferior either through death or relegation to another caste. If even 80% of these are sent to other castes it would help explain the EXTREMELY high figures for the clan’s civilian population. You make a constant stream of replacements to replace those killed in the field, and a steady attrition is easily maintained by all clans. This is why to me people who think the Falcons or Wolves should still be feeble a few years after the Refusal war are (IMHO) dimwits. Five years for the Falcons for total personnel recovery, perhaps longer for the Wolves since Phelan and Ulric raped the sibkos of their best and brightest.

Likely expecting higher losses for the invasion, the clans would have stepped up production ahead of time. There are indications of this within the ‘wolf supremacist’ movement that caused the refusal war. Not enough warriors were being killed off in peacetime (or the invasion for that matter), leaving no room for the warriors entering service to advance:

Bred for War
I turned twenty-nine a month and a half ago. I am a Star Colonel, which is an excellent position considering the fact I have no Bloodname. Without one I can go no further, and if I do not earn one in the next five years, the chances of my ever getting one drop off precipitously - as do my chances of maintaining my rank.

Clan Wolf has many warriors who have proved their worth in the invasion, but who cannot advance because war is no longer killing off the older warriors or forcing them off to retire. Of all the clans, only the Wolves did well on Tukkayid, but it has hobbled our young. They see themselves as part of the Wolf Clan, and revel in its glory, but they do not believe they will ever be allowed to add or increase that glory.


Repeatedly we have been shown that the beliefs of the clans and their way of life is that warriors must die; en masse, in great quantities to make room for "those below rising above". Inherently a rank system has to be a pyramid, and let us face it... How many 29 year old Clan warriors are going to hold their rank if they have not even reached Star Commander? It makes me question the 45 years old ‘average life expectancy’ for a clan warrior as unrealistic, as I prefer to view that as the maximum age you could expect a ristar to reach. It often seems that with each sourcebook release the age a clanner can expect to live gets pushed further and further up, removing yet another thing that makes them unique.

We are also shown in most every piece of literature involving the clans that the "Elderly" (those over 30) are viewed with disdain, even outright disgust over lacking the good graces to die for the clan. Despite this it seems a goodly number of players are obsessed with having clan characters that survive every battle, victory or no.

I think a healthy portion of people’s problem with the concept is the inability to separate their own beliefs from those of others. When you can make as many people as you like, breeding them to fight and die in battle, life itself becomes devalued. Fanatics have been bred for centuries to fight the enemy and die in battle, sacrificing their lives in fashions that would make a normal ‘soft’ person cringe. What I’m talking about is no different than that.

Often I get the argument "There’s no such thing as someone who doesn’t care for their own life." Rubbish, pure and simple. The minute someone believes they are dying for a higher cause all that goes out the window. If you tell someone from the day they are born every day something, regardless of what total tripe it is, they will believe it and act on it. As was so aptly put in "Dogma" - "A belief is more dangerous than an idea." If you can convince a couple hundred people that if they suicide with arsenic laced yogurt while wearing blue silk robes that aliens will come down and take them to heaven... You get the idea. Self sacrifice for the greater good, or for the promise of bettering your own position in the scheme of things is nothing new.

So much for the human ‘waste’, what about materiel? By nature clan ‘Mechs are more likely to survive yet be salvageable. The XL engine allows them to be reduced to ineffectiveness long before a more ‘conventional’ design. The clans are salvage obsessed, and in this way operate more like mercenaries than I think any clanner would be comfortable admitting. Their superior CASE, XL and other components make large portions of a ‘Mech survive the worst damage to be rebuilt to fight another day, reducing the strain on manufacturing new ‘Mechs. Assuming at worst a 50% materiel loss per warrior killed, you would still be looking at a mere 10% force replacement yearly, something that a society in which the ‘ruling’ Warrior class needing said materiel’s is a single digit percentile of the population should not be a huge strain economically; While they abhor waste, they accept that it is ALWAYS the number one cause in war, and instead of fighting it have chosen to isolate it to a mere fraction of their population to save the remainder from the horrors of war.

All of these things culminate in the Warrior: the pinnacle fighting machine within clan rules and beliefs. During sibko training they are taught to die at a moments notice and not mourn those who have passed. Worrying of death is NOT clan. As warrior training progresses they are put in more and more realistic combat situations; live fire exercises culminating in actual combat, all of which can result in the trainee’s death at any time. A clan warrior gives their life for the clan; if they are worth keeping alive, they can prove it by putting themselves in near death situations without fear of failure or death. All this is formulated to create a warrior who in battle given the choice between life and death, will push forward for the clan without worry or concern; not tuck their tail between their legs and run. Those who survive pushing forward are those worthy of life and a continued place within the Warrior cast, NOT those who merely survive. It is not necessarily the RIGHT thing to do, but it is the CLAN thing to do...

This leads to a portion of Clan training that I consider being both their greatest strength, and their greatest weakness. In training Clan warriors are simply not prepared to even consider the option of losing.

The way of the Clans
If you think Kill, you will Kill.
If you have a boot, you crush your enemy.
If you have a hand, you strangle your enemy.
If you have a club, you bludgeon the attacker.
If you have a knife, you stab at your foe.
If you have a gun, you shoot it.
If you have a tank, you roll it over the opposing ranks.
If you have an aerofighter, you bomb them.
If you have a mech, you win.
You are always the victor.
When the blood is spilled, the bloodname is earned.
We are the Clan.


The above passage speaks volumes, and spells out that clan warriors are not prepared for failure. "You are always the victor."

Doubtless many remember my dislike for Nystul and his work on Battletech. Despite my distaste for much that happened during his reign, I have to say that in his final contribution, "Test of Vengeance", he delivered an excellent example of the clan warrior with Jake Kabrinski. When we are introduced to the character, he is the uber Ristar Ghost Bear elemental, best of the best who despite being a mere point commander equals a Khan in combat, forcing said Khan into the most shameful of things, retreat. Defeating opponents and kin alike to advance his position, he reaches command of a supernova binary only to face the unthinkable: Defeat.

While many warriors likely face defeat early in their careers and learn to deal, A Ristar who faced victory after victory would have no such experience to draw on, and this comes out in bloom with Kabrinski. The loss nearly cripples him; even with the campaign on the whole being a relative success, his simple loss not only garners him shame, but brings shame to the unit as a whole. Worse, it removes his unit from frontline combat, the ultimate disgrace. It takes a risky victory and the death of his trusted second to rouse him from his funk, and a victory against impossible odds to remove the taint from not only himself, but his unit as well.

If a simple defeat that doesn’t even affect the outcome of the whole battle could have such far reaching effects, what of the effect of a large scale defeat on a unit commander? With the shame of defeat, the simple fact is it may be better to die on the battlefield than return to the clan in disgrace. Depending on the situation a defeat could even result in abjurement from the clan; the worst of all fates. A defeat where you stood in fought may at least make the enemy Clan want you... Can you say the same of your own Clan if you turn and run? What if you begin to retreat and are still defeated? Take up a defensive posture avoiding the enemy? Could you bear the shame of the enemy not taking you as a bondsman? A warrior lives and dies for the clan, how does one deal with the clan abandoning you for a failure?

I think that is the heart of the problem many ‘power gamers’ have in playing a clansman, is that to many people winning is the all important thing; Yes, clanners play to win, but that does not mean their victory conditions are the same as yours. An honorless win is no victory. Without honor in clan society, you have won the battle, but lost the war.

To me, this is the heart of what it means to be a Clanner, and seems to be something few others seem willing to grasp or even attempt.

I will close with the passage I try to keep in my mind every time I play the clans... To me this is a clearly worded ideal to which anyone wishing to achieve the true warrior mindset must adhere to... Hopefully I won’t have to censor too much of this, but it is George so...

Gen. George S. Patton, June 5, 1944
When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a German will get to him eventually. The hell with that idea; the hell with taking it. My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving, and don't give the enemy time to dig one either. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-{censored}, we're going to rip out their living {censored} guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy hun {censored} by the bushel-{censored}-basket. War is a ******, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!

I don't want to get any messages saying, "I am holding my position." We are not holding a {censored} thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's *****. We are going to twist his ***** and kick the living {censored} out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like {censored} through a goose; like {censored} through a tin horn!

From time to time there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard. I don't give a good {censored} about such complaints. I believe in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder WE push, the more Germans we will kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that.

There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again. You may be thankful that twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II, you WON'T have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, "Well, your Granddaddy shoveled manure in Louisiana." No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, "Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-{censored}-{censored} named George S. Patton."
[/indent]


#15 Amarus Cameron

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:09 AM

View Poststormwolf, on 01 November 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:


This, I've got a feeling that the match setups are going to be like this.

Though I hope that there's going to be a bidding system where everybody tries to one up each other.


I would love a bidding system implemented for the clans

#16 SquareSphere

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:15 AM

Any clan behavior that's expected to be enforced has to be tied to in game mechanics. By it's very nature Clan honor is exploitable and leads to rage :)

#17 DFDelta

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:18 AM

Especially because most players won't be clan because they like the lore behind them, but because they want the easymode I-win button the far better tech is.

#18 godmonkey

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:30 AM

clans without honor and zellbringen are a meaningless powergamer faction. those two things are amongst the keys what defines them as clan. given the technological disparity i do not see any downsides with enforcing some form of behavior in battle for the clans. Be it bidding before the fight or be it zellbringen on the field.

#19 Beaker

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:38 AM

The thting with Clan v IS battles is that group combat favours the IS teams. Absolutely no rules against multiple mechs targeting a single enemy. No qualms about hitting parts of the mech some people would consider Dishonourable etc.

As a Merc, and if there are increased chances of salvage I'll be be legging and headshotting as much as is practical.

#20 godmonkey

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:42 AM

well that is kind of the point isn't it? after all the clans did not crush the inner sphere for a reason. The reason wasn't the disparity in tech but the disparity in thinking. this is the point stormwolf was making with his post. Sure you can play as a "clanner" by running around in clan mechs and blowing people up and making every battle into a Grand Melee but it will not make you a Trueborn.





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