24 replies to this topic

[FinnMcKool]

Any 1 play the Beta 'Battletech 3025'?
the game was cut , but they had a system to balance the Mech class so the new guys in light mechs wouldnt always be wiped out by the old guys in the heavys.
there would be battles with restrictions on the class of mechs , some dropship issue or what?
so to get into some planets you could only use light mechs , some would be" team" weight restrictions, !00 tons say 2 "50 ton mechs" or 4 "25 ton mechs" the idea was a team had a limit and would work it out them selfs before the fight. other planets would be a free or no limits but only 4 to a team.

any Ideas out there?

please tell me the dev s know about 3025 , the game engine i heard was released as the original battlefield.

[Agent CraZy DiP]

This is completey dependent on how they have the launch system setup. Does it go to a ready room where you can swap out gear and talk about strategy? Or does it just drop you into a match that's 5 seconds from starting battle each and every time? It's too speculative right now. I'm hoping for a "CIC" (Combat Information Center) where you have time to choose gear and load out while going over a strategy myself.

If I'm not mistaken some planets will have rules, but so far the only confirmed was a Melee planet (to my knowledge).

[Nik Van Rhijn]

So far we have no information on matchmaking, whether drops will be by number of mechs, weight, BV, class or any mixture of these. Somehow I get the feeling that this won't be notified until much closer to game release/ open beta.

[DEVASTATOR]

I'm in favor of somethign like that. I prefer a system that stipulates a maximum combined drop tonnage per side - each side gets to use a combined max of 500 tons that could be spread across any number of players. If you want to field 5 Atlas' knock yourself out. If you want to go out with 10 Hunchbacks that's good too.

No suystem will be perfect I suppose. There's going to likely be some form of limitaiton on what players can use. Possibly by "ranking" or experience points or some other system.

[Corsair114]

I think you'll find that this won't work out so well.

It seemed pretty clear from the NGNG podcast w/ the playtest results (episode 11) that two Jenners were able to come very close to beating two Hunchbacks (it was a 2 kill spread after several respawns for both sides). This suggests that the variance in firepower between 'mech tonnages may not be as huge as it was in the last outing (MW4: Mercs). Were I a betting man (I'm not, I'd just as soon guarantee a victory), I'd say light, space efficient weapons like Medium Lasers are going to be quite powerful, likely to the point that a team with a significant numbers advantage is going to end up with quite a bit more firepower than the team with fewer 'mechs to the point that the smaller team will be able to be killed quite quickly.

tl/dr: Weight of numbers will be way stronger than simply fewer, bigger 'mechs.

[DEVASTATOR]

Well, we're talking about a pretty small sample size here. With no way to measure the player's ability which is the biggest factor. The Jenner and Hunchback are pretty close in weight (35 vs 50 tons) which is a far cry from the hunchback, atlas example i used (wonder how 2 hunchbacks would do against the atlas). I don't see anything wrong with 2 hunchbacks eeking out a 2 kill win over 2 jenners.

This kind of system worked extremely well in league play by the way.

Edited by DEVASTATOR, 23 January 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Corsair114, on 23 January 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

I think you'll find that this won't work out so well.

It seemed pretty clear from the NGNG podcast w/ the playtest results (episode 11) that two Jenners were able to come very close to beating two Hunchbacks (it was a 2 kill spread after several respawns for both sides). This suggests that the variance in firepower between 'mech tonnages may not be as huge as it was in the last outing (MW4: Mercs). Were I a betting man (I'm not, I'd just as soon guarantee a victory), I'd say light, space efficient weapons like Medium Lasers are going to be quite powerful, likely to the point that a team with a significant numbers advantage is going to end up with quite a bit more firepower than the team with fewer 'mechs to the point that the smaller team will be able to be killed quite quickly.

tl/dr: Weight of numbers will be way stronger than simply fewer, bigger 'mechs.

A lot of factors have to be weighed in that Match up. The Jenners, although lighter, run much faster (118 vs 64) The Range battle is = across the board, save for the SLaser the Hunchies carry. The Jenners are Jumpers, and depending on the environment, that can play a huge role and advantage, given knowledgable pilots.

We have no way to know what, if any, the Module load outs of the 2 Teams. Given what can be assimilated just from the actual data available on each Mech and thier load-outs, there is no reason that 2 Hunchies should be wiping out 2 Jenners simply due to some pre-concieved, 15T weight advantage.

I would like to think that the Heaviest of one weight class, should be able to have a decent chance to reply favorably, during a fIght, to the 3rd weight group in the next closest weight class. Otherwise they may as well just run off and hide and leave it to the Bruiser classes...

Edited by MaddMaxx, 23 January 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[Corsair114]

That's true, but if the Jenners weren't able to deal meaningful damage in the first place (like was often the case in Mercs with just 4 IS Medium Lasers and an SRM4) then the Hunchbacks would had little to no trouble defeating them soundly. I really think allowing swarm situations is not going to end well for balance sake at all. It'll likely end up massively favoring the team with the greater number of players.

[FinnMcKool]

Numbers are allways better in war, but this misses the point, being that a heavy or assault mech will not allways be able to drop on some planets, these are contests that those who only have light mechs (new players) can have a chance to learn and have an impact on the game.
and from what I understand is that the numbers on each team will most likely be maxed out at 4 each reguardless of weight.

[Akane Yashiro]

FinnMcKool, on 23 January 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Numbers are allways better in war, but this misses the point, being that a heavy or assault mech will not allways be able to drop on some planets, these are contests that those who only have light mechs (new players) can have a chance to learn and have an impact on the game.
and from what I understand is that the numbers on each team will most likely be maxed out at 4 each reguardless of weight.

New players will not be limited to light mechs....

[Volume]

Corsair114, on 23 January 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

That's true, but if the Jenners weren't able to deal meaningful damage in the first place (like was often the case in Mercs with just 4 IS Medium Lasers and an SRM4) then the Hunchbacks would had little to no trouble defeating them soundly. I really think allowing swarm situations is not going to end well for balance sake at all. It'll likely end up massively favoring the team with the greater number of players.

Assuming they're using the tabletop as a baseline, 4ML do the same damage as an AC20, and it's not like the Hunchback is the most armored thing ever, so yes, Jenners and Hunchies are more equal than was assumed in this thread.

FinnMcKool, on 23 January 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Numbers are allways better in war, but this misses the point, being that a heavy or assault mech will not allways be able to drop on some planets, these are contests that those who only have light mechs (new players) can have a chance to learn and have an impact on the game.
and from what I understand is that the numbers on each team will most likely be maxed out at 4 each reguardless of weight.

No comprendo. Numbers are not "always" better. Take a Clan Star vs 2 IS Lances, or Binary vs Company, for example. The Clan technology advantage overcomes or balances the "numbers" issue. Also, I don't think there are going to be any planets in this game where heavies or assaults can't play, as it's based upon 8v8 or 12v12 fighting, with different roles encompassing 'Mechs of all weight classes. New players can start with any weight class 'Mech as well - light, medium, heavy, or assault. Obviously they will not be starting in a Daishi, but something like an Awesome or Zeus is entirely plausible.

Nik Van Rhijn, on 23 January 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

So far we have no information on matchmaking, whether drops will be by number of mechs, weight, BV, class or any mixture of these. Somehow I get the feeling that this won't be notified until much closer to game release/ open beta.

Actually, I was almost positive that the devs were working on a new system that is basically a "BV3" for this game, for the sole purpose of matchmaking. I will try to find the quote but I swear I could have read it on here at some point.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

There has been mention that BV3 is being developed externally. The problem is dealing with player ranking as stats are easily "massaged" etc and it is player skill that makes up the main difference. The one conclusion from previous threads about matchmaking was that no one is going to be satisfied. I get the feeling that this sort of info is going to be a few months away yet. After all the only thing we do know is that they "hope" to have up to 12 v 12

[Elizander]

There was a lot of talk about similarities with World of Tanks so I decided to play the game to check what the fuss was about. The matchmaking system there seems to work so anything similar would be fine for me here.

Instead of tank tiers mechs could have Battle Value based on what they equip. I mean if you're using old IS tech with non-XL engines and PPCs then your BV would be low and if you are decked out with full Clantech then you'd be through the roof.

Maybe the game will even allow for a 5 vs 8 battle if there are like 2 full clan mechs on the team of 5 and all crappy old IS tech mechs on the team of 8.

I do hope they manage to get it up to 12 vs 12 on launch. It would make things a lot more fun, but they could also have a flexible system that will make an 8 vs 8 or a 4 vs 4 if there are not enough qualified mechs queued up for your tier instead of making you wait 40 minutes.

Like I said before it could also go with uneven numbers depending on the BV of each mech (then you can go rage in the forums when that top tier Madcat on your team AFKs the match). Allowing uneven teams based on BV will certainly bring on that Clan domination feel by allowing clan mechs to have their insane damage weapons but the matchmaking system will ensure that there are:

1) less of them on the team they are fighting or
2) matching them with other teams that have clan mechs.

Edited by Elizander, 24 January 2012 - 08:03 AM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I hope match making is based both on BV and tonnage.
Tonnage so you don't see Assault only lances all the time, and BV since its the real balance mechanism.

I'd like to see at least two match makers.
1) A preset system where you get a lobby, invite friends, open up slots for randoms and pick mechs and loadouts before dropping. These would be matched vs other preset lances. Possibly have several BV brackets.

2) A random quick find feature where you pick a mech and it attempts to find you a match by BV. I wouldn't allow groups of more than 2-3 to drop together in this with a 12vs12 limit.

[BigMo5]

Weight Limits, I would have to say that is the best way to balance any drop.

WoTs match Maker is hands down the worst ever. The Match Maker is designed from the ground up to feed the paying players(Higher Tier Tanks Cost a fortune to use) with all the mid tier players. If you are Tier IV-VI you are fodder. If someone can explain how a TierV-VI tank is supposed to be in a match with 10 Tier VIII-X tanks..and no it wasn't a scout...and the Match Maker has NO player level controls at all.

Can you tell, I find the WoT MM horrible. I should be able to choose what i use in the Drop, or what maps I'm on. MW4 wasn't to bad when it came to game drops, wasn't the best but not to bad either.


Weight limits should be enough.

[TheRulesLawyer]

BigMo5, on 24 January 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Weight limits should be enough.

Unlike WoT mechs vary quite a bit in capability per weight class. A 3025 mech may be 1/3 the value of a clan mech of the same weight for example. Weight alone is not sufficient to balance in mechwarrior. Weight lights really are just to force a diverse force composition as not everyone can take an assault mech.

[BigMo5]

ok, weight and Cost. Both are already in the canon, nothing new needs to be added.

[TheRulesLawyer]

BigMo5, on 24 January 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

ok, weight and Cost. Both are already in the canon, nothing new needs to be added.

Both of those are only indirectly related to effectiveness. BV is what you want. Its already in canon as well. Though they are moving to BV3 for the TT.

[FinnMcKool]

maybe they wont try to make everything even , give more for clan mech and less for IS?

But if they let you see who and what your dropping against, and you feel your team is up to a challenge,
Maybe you think you have better players who know how to work together, and you know those other guys
are just there for a quikie? anyway if you have the choice to drop against them or not? Or maybe an option
to pull out if it looks really bad (I think the honor thing didnt matter to much to IS, at least not as much as
to the Clanners)

I hope they give more options for a player or team to make choices, on everything not just on drops.

Funny but I was just looking at it from the perspective of the other Mech games , could be this will have
somthing very different????



Dont forget its a cruel universe out there.

[BigMo5]

TheRulesLawyer, on 24 January 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Both of those are only indirectly related to effectiveness. BV is what you want. Its already in canon as well. Though they are moving to BV3 for the TT.

But the Battle Value cannot take into account the players actual skill. It can take into account the Avatars overall ability. Not only that, but if a resource system is used, this can spill over onto Large scale engagements, like Clans/Guilds taking over planets and limiting how much they can use as an attacking force, vs a defending force. BattleValue is fine for Small Skirmishes but will require a double effort if something similiar tomy suggestion is used, where as the resource based system can be used in broad strokes.

Each side is allow X Weight and X resources for the battle, how that is used is up to the players/Clans/Guilds...


Just some Brainstorming.