64 replies to this topic

[Geist Null]

theres two kinds of people on forums. those whose excitement builds learning details a little bit at a time and those who get their panties bound in a knot and have to rage about it. i like canon, i like cannons, i like cameras, and i like devs who know when to tweak an outdated rule so that it works in a game 25 years after it was printed. does that airfoil on the top of the jenner really improve traction?

Edited by Geist Null, 02 February 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I have both a Canon & a Nikon. Both great camera's and capable of taking better shots than I do.

[Kael Tropheus]

Canon over non-canon. I extend this to everything about the game. Mechlab needs to be for minor changes and paint schemes. You have medium lasers, you earned some exp and can upgrade? Now you have the option of adding medium pulse lasers instead. I want the mechs I know and love not some kid's idea of an optimized mech that is armed and armored nothing like the originals.

The only thing so far I am missing is, wheres my Periphery? Oh well, cant have it all.

[Roughneck45]

StaggerCheck, on 02 February 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Not trying to be a ****, but back when the TRO 3025 was first published, this artwork was not considered rubbish. In fact, it was pretty cool for the time, and we should all be thanking Duane Loose for his artistic vision, because we had way more Mech designs to pretend/imagine/play with than the seventeen or so 'Unseen' mechs that originally came with the game.

Think on it this way... twenty-five years from now, when some game company is producing their holographic Battletech games, someone may very well post one of FD's digital paintings and say, "This is rubbish!" They'd be totally wrong, but who knows what artwork will look like in twenty-five years?

It was cool back for the time because there was nothing else. What do you compare it to? Most sci-fi animation and art looked pretty silly back then, and has advanced leaps and bounds since.

Im sure whatever they make in 25 years will look awesome, but their redesign will always look good, and those TRO's will always look silly.

Its all moot though, because art is completley subjective, so to each their own.

[Mchawkeye]

I think, like the canon itself, it's all open to reinterpretation and tweaking. It's battletech, it's been growing and changing for 25 years. to stop that progression and to hold yourself to strongly to that which has come before could well hobble the ability to make a good game.




P.S. Nikon smells....

[RoundTop]

Sony Alpha.

And gotta go with Canon.

Note that one of the major discussion points of canon vs non-canon is not about the storyline, but about the mech designs. Should a Jenner have 4 medium lasers + armour, and 4 medium lasers + srm4, (canon JR7-D and JR7-K) or should someone customize it with 12 machine guns.

[Nasty McBadman]

Should I be able to make a 118kph Loki when they are available by swapping out for a huge engine and just putting a pair of ERPPCs in the arms? It was fun in MW4 but I don't think I should be able to do that. Man that Loki haul butt though.

[Rayge]

Nasty McBadman, on 03 February 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Should I be able to make a 118kph Loki when they are available by swapping out for a huge engine and just putting a pair of ERPPCs in the arms? It was fun in MW4 but I don't think I should be able to do that. Man that Loki haul butt though.

eh, not really on topic but you're talking about what is termed a 'full mechlab' scenario: where you can strip a mech down and totally customize it. That is technically not canon, in fact even the Clan Omni-mech technology doesn't create a fully moddable mech: engine and internal structure are not able to be changed. See http://www.sarna.net/wiki/OmniMech

[VEDRFOLNIR]

Well, I'm a big lore-nut myself, but in any game based on an established IP, I've always taken the view of 'Canon when possible, non-canon when necessary'. Though I've scratched my head over the whole St. Ives issue, for the most part I've been pleased with what PGI has done.

[Nasty McBadman]

Rayge, on 03 February 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

eh, not really on topic but you're talking about what is termed a 'full mechlab' scenario: where you can strip a mech down and totally customize it. That is technically not canon, in fact even the Clan Omni-mech technology doesn't create a fully moddable mech: engine and internal structure are not able to be changed. See http://www.sarna.net/wiki/OmniMech

Yea, I agree 100%, I am quite familiar with Canon but thank you for offering information to those you think may be in need.. I would much rather have this game limit designs to be more towards the Canon. Since the previous MW title had no such limits I did not self impose limits to remain in canon or even within plausible deniability or logic. Man that Loki was fast though.

[Rayge]

Nasty McBadman, on 03 February 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Yea, I agree 100%, I am quite familiar with Canon but thank you for offering information to those you think may be in need.. I would much rather have this game limit designs to be more towards the Canon. Since the previous MW title had no such limits I did not self impose limits to remain in canon or even within plausible deniability or logic. Man that Loki was fast though.

see the interesting thing is that compared to mw3 (which I played more of than mw4), the mw4 mechlab was rather limited. Hopefully they'll continue the trend.

my favorite mw3 mech was an owens with no armor, maxed engines, and 30 machine guns only worked with UA on lol

[Insidious Johnson]

Nice segue into a sales pitch. Got a Trolleiflex for sale?

[Xenois Shalashaska]

Doesn't any one use the Kodak Easyshare any more

[Lyon]

I'm a canonical kind of guy. I love the storyline in Battletech. I respect most of the art there, and the writing more than anything else.

And yet....Duane Loose was nowhere near as good at Matt Plog. The Plog improved the artwork immensely, and yet...we have a further improvement available to us now, with FlyingDebris. This is a Darwinian progression, and no canon was harmed in the process, only improved.

If I had a say in it, the mechlab would be utterly minimal, with only minor customizations available. The major battles in the storyline would be avoided, and the players kept to the areas where nothing was written. And there would be major Periphery action going on right now.

But I don't have a say in it. In fact, way too many people are having a say in it, as if their random thoughts matter to the guys in Vancouver who are desperately trying to make a killer game. This canon vs. non-canon argument is coming to the fore way too often now, and I think I respect where the devs are taking this game, enough to leave them alone and let them do it.


Last random thought: If there is a God, let there be no requests for a Wyvern (a la Duane Loose) to be included in this game.

Edited by Lyon, 08 April 2012 - 07:48 PM.

[wwiiogre]

Canon vs Non Canon

So far I like what PGI has done and the choices they have made. They have been sticking to as much TT as possible and explaining to us old grognards the reason why if they change something. To me they have made perfect sense so far. Hopefully, they will continue to get it as right as they can given time and money and game play.

Super Canon can shoot the moon, Saddam was building one.

chris

[Saint of Sinners]

TheRulesLawyer, on 02 February 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

No. Non-cannon gets you industrial and agricultural mechs.

Industrial and agricultural mechs have been cannon since the begining of the universe. Go read Mercenary's Star (2nd GDL book)... The Legion uses mining and agriculture mechs in it.

[Stormwolf]

Canon all the way, trust me, it will work out better that way.

[William Petersen]

Lyon, on 08 April 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

The major battles in the storyline would be avoided, and the players kept to the areas where nothing was written. And there would be major Periphery action going on right now.

My, that would be boring.

[Kargush]

Non-canon leads to speculative ideas.

Speculative ideas lead to fan-fic.

Fan-fic leads to cross-overs.

Cross-overs lead to a MadCat piloted by a sparkling Vampire, or mercenaries units made up of the worst sections of furries and bronies.

I'll stay with canon, thank you very much.

[Ramien]

Saint of Sinners, on 25 April 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

Industrial and agricultural mechs have been cannon since the begining of the universe. Go read Mercenary's Star (2nd GDL book)... The Legion uses mining and agriculture mechs in it.

But did those canon mechs have cannons?