95 replies to this topic

[Bluey]

Skyrim launch price 59 dolar
First Patch came 1 month later
Second Patch came 1 month 3 days later
Third Patch came 2 months 7 days later
Fourth Patch came 4 months later

Battlefield 3 launch price 69 dolars
First Patch came a month later
Second Patch came 2 months later
Third Patch didnt even happen yet

From Dust launch price 29 dolars
Patched once after realese

Alas Total War Series launch Price always 49 dolars
Never gets patched more than 3 times and never solves main issues.

My mom always say hot money is better than instant money. *economic term hot money means continues gain*

• All those games are half baked left for scrap without reaching their full potention why cause COMPANY already got their money but since its not being sold anymore after 2 months.THEY move onto next project leaving a dead game behind.PGI IGP aware of it.Let them do what they want.Let them gain hot money and not keep them away from adding more contents without killing game at hand

[BruceP]

It's obvious from a LOT of the replies in this thread that the people who are complaining about free to play games have either

a) never played a true free to play game
only played pay to win games

Free to play means exactly that. You can download and play the game for free and go from 0 to cap for free. if it's anything other than that, it's pay to win and you got suckered.

I've said it in another post, and DDO is the epitome of free to play games. There is no pay to win in that game. I have both a free to play account and an account with a monthly subscription. While playing the game you earn points, and those points can be spent in the store to buy character slots, adventure packs or whatever you want. There is no limit to the points you can earn.

If you want you can make a character, get as many points as you can in x hours, delete it and do it again!

As a completely free account, you can cap just like any other paying customer can. If you spend some money on adventure packs you have access to more gear and a more diverse selection of quests, but this gear is not needed or required to play any quest in the game.

As for updates, in 2011 DDO had 6 full updates, and numerous patches and fixes released. Take a look at DDO if you want a good example of a free to play game.

Edited by BruceP, 26 February 2012 - 12:47 AM.

[Fluffinator]

BruceP, on 26 February 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

As for updates, in 2011 DDO had 6 full updates, and numerous patches and fixes released. Take a look at DDO if you want a good example of a free to play game.

As someone who played DDO from day 1 on through the FTP model let me put out a few corrections to this...
Look at DDO if you want to see a FTP model where many people still pay the mothly sub because FTP is so crippled and expensive...Look to DDOs FTP if you want to pay extra money for the new classes, new races, higher point builds, new content etc as they are all purchase items in the store...look to the DDO FTP store if you want unlimited mana pots (something not real common) in stacks of 100x cause they are in the store too...Look to FTP store if you want the rare +2 stat tomes cause they sell them there too, they even sell 1 that is +2 to all stats. Look to their FTP model if you want to have to pay for 90% of the new content in the store and even if you do pay for it still get access 4 days after the monthly sub people do... IE in the years and years I played the drop rate of items always dropped like a rock within 72hrs of a new area being released which makes even FTP players who buy it day one miss the boosted drop rates. Also look to the FTP store if you want to respec your hero, change a feat, or True ressurect it...DDO is the worst possible example of a FTP store as its both Pay to win, and even pay to play more than just a teaser amount of content, pay to select classes/races other than beginner ones, pay for high point builds, pay for respecs, pay for potions, pay for pretty much eveything except Epic gear. And on top of that you will still missing the opening days of every area when they are paid sub only and have far better drop rates of the new gear.

Edited by Fluffinator, 26 February 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[Chapel976]

I would prefer the traditional "I give you money, you give me game... I play game when I want to" model...

I don't want to pay for game, then pay for the privilege to play it...

[Halfinax]

Chapel976, on 01 March 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I would prefer the traditional "I give you money, you give me game... I play game when I want to" model...

I don't want to pay for game, then pay for the privilege to play it...

You're not going to pay for the game, or the privilege to play it. You download game for free. Start up and play for free. Eventually you might decide you want something sooner, or something cosmetic and then you will pay for that at your own discretion.

[Rastan]

Only time will tell how the F2P pans out for this game.

A lot of times games will say that the pay items are cosmetic or don't offer any real combat advantages in the game.
Almost always however that is a lie, a cover, and usually the game is pay-2-win if not at first then eventually they progress that way.

Im not saying thats whats happening here, Hopefully not, We wont really know till it's released.

If done fairly then the F2P model is fine with me, Almost all games are going this way even games that have monthly sub's still end up going with some sort of pay system for bonuses or perks, It's just a matter of to what degree.

[Rigamortice]

I feel the term Free to Play is missused sometimes. True F2Ps yes will be free all the time, but when you add the option to purchase better ammo, the ability to gain more XP and credits to speed up leveling, the term F2P is wrong and the game becomes a Microtransaction game.
WOT, LOL, and most of these style games are called F2P but are MTGs.

[wassup]

Worst example of a free to play game ->Dark Orbit, but ugh its so addicting and i havent payed for anythig yet and i can almost pvp some higher lvl ppl

[PersuesOne]

I personally absolutely hate Free to Play, I have never came across a F2P that does not translate into Pay to Win! Even the infamous WoTanks in clan wars is that way. I personally would much rather pay $10 a month and have everyone's ability's based on skill not there wallet.

That being said if MWO can provide F2P that does not equate out to Pay to Win then I guess it's OK but I still don't like F2P personally cause I feel it's way to easy for a developer to get greedy or is subs run low to jack up the rates on things.

I mean I guess if you were to have a F2P that could have a subscription just to unlock some content or little things that would be OK but nickel and dimming you for the nice weapons and mechs is garbage in my opinion.

[Roughneck45]

PersuesOne, on 01 March 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

I personally absolutely hate Free to Play, I have never came across a F2P that does not translate into Pay to Win! Even the infamous WoTanks in clan wars is that way. I personally would much rather pay $10 a month and have everyone's ability's based on skill not there wallet.

That being said if MWO can provide F2P that does not equate out to Pay to Win then I guess it's OK but I still don't like F2P personally cause I feel it's way to easy for a developer to get greedy or is subs run low to jack up the rates on things.

I mean I guess if you were to have a F2P that could have a subscription just to unlock some content or little things that would be OK but nickel and dimming you for the nice weapons and mechs is garbage in my opinion.

League of Legends is the most sucessful F2P game at the moment, and there is nothing in that game you can purchase to give yourself a tactical advantage in game. It is not pay to win, and MWO will not be pay to win either.

What you will be able to pay for are cosmetics, and things to eliminate grinds, such as purchasing mechs or xp boosts. However, neither of these grind eliminating things are pay to win. They simply cut the time you would have to put in to get what you want.

Edited by Roughneck45, 01 March 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[Roughneck45]

Rigamortice, on 01 March 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I feel the term Free to Play is missused sometimes. True F2Ps yes will be free all the time, but when you add the option to purchase better ammo, the ability to gain more XP and credits to speed up leveling, the term F2P is wrong and the game becomes a Microtransaction game.
WOT, LOL, and most of these style games are called F2P but are MTGs.

No, the term is not wrong. Free to play games are free to play all the time. Microtransactions are a necessary evil for F2P to exist. They are F2P games with microtransactions. If it was a microtransaction game, you would log on and spend 5 dollars here and there, and that would be the game. Doesnt sound like much fun to me

However, purchasing better ammo is pay to win, which is a very very bad thing, and something that MWO should not do

On the flipside, more XP and Credits are not pay to win, they are pay to eliminate grinds. The people who dont spend a penny on the game will have the same access to things that people who purchase those boosts can get, they just have to grind it out.

[wpmaura]

Bluey, on 25 February 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Skyrim launch price 59 dolar
First Patch came 1 month later
Second Patch came 1 month 3 days later
Third Patch came 2 months 7 days later
Fourth Patch came 4 months later

Battlefield 3 launch price 69 dolars
First Patch came a month later
Second Patch came 2 months later
Third Patch didnt even happen yet

From Dust launch price 29 dolars
Patched once after realese

Alas Total War Series launch Price always 49 dolars
Never gets patched more than 3 times and never solves main issues.

My mom always say hot money is better than instant money. *economic term hot money means continues gain*

• All those games are half baked left for scrap without reaching their full potention why cause COMPANY already got their money but since its not being sold anymore after 2 months.THEY move onto next project leaving a dead game behind.PGI IGP aware of it.Let them do what they want.Let them gain hot money and not keep them away from adding more contents without killing game at hand

I think you have a level of expectation that is insansely high, I have enjoyed every single tw series to date and all have been playable from day 1. With exception of empire because I dont like that time period. Skyrim is a great game as well and had no issues with it.And betheseda keeps supporting there products. Heard about dust and am disapoined as they looked very interesting.

Otherwise I would actually hope MWO was more a BTP, you pay for the game like normal up front some fee and then there is some sort of exp shop, etc. Although I still think ftp turns into pay to win.

cant comment on the other two.

[Rigamortice]

Roughneck45, on 01 March 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

League of Legends is the most sucessful F2P game at the moment, and there is nothing in that game you can purchase to give yourself a tactical advantage in game. It is not pay to win, and MWO will not be pay to win either.

What you will be able to pay for are cosmetics, and things to eliminate grinds, such as purchasing mechs or xp boosts. However, neither of these grind eliminating things are pay to win. They simply cut the time you would have to put in to get what you want.

I very much hope that this games goes a simalar route like LOL has done for in game purchases. If this game goes the way of WoT then this game will get old very fast.

[Roughneck45]

Rigamortice, on 02 March 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

I very much hope that this games goes a simalar route like LOL has done for in game purchases. If this game goes the way of WoT then this game will get old very fast.

I think it will. If i had to guess, you unlock the mechs exactly like champions, but we might have to pay a repair cost to get them up to snuff after we use them in a match.

[EDMW CSN]

As long PGI does not handing out cash shop Clan tech fitted Omnis when everyone else is still trying to fit on a SL era ER Large Laser on to their mechs, I am chill.

[Kartr]

Every single game has to make money. No game can be 100% free because then there would be no money to pay the Devs, the shareholder, the electric bills, the internet bills, the costs of the servers, etc.

There are three general revenue models for videogames:
1. Box only: this is generally only for single player games that have a multiplayer component and is quite rare to be the payment model for Massively Multiplayer Online Games, which is what MW Online is. The only MMOG that I'm aware of that uses this model is Guild Wars and even that has the NCSoft cash shop.

2. Box + Monthly subscription: this is the classic MMO revenue model. People buy the box which helps offset the the production costs and then they pay a subscription. With enough players the subscriptions cover the daily operating costs, and generate profit, hopefully enough profit to invest into make expansions so you can keep your players coming back and staying subscribed. With the sheer number of games available this model is becoming less competitive as people choose not to play your game because the can't afford the sub since the money is going to a competitor of yours.

3. Free to Play: There are actually two different kinds of F2P models, the straight F2P where everything has to be bought through the cash shop, and the hybrid that allows people to subscribe for a fixed monthly sum and get the content free plus an allowance to spend on things like extra skins. If a person doesn't care about the extras he/she doesn't have to pay any money, if he/she likes the extras then they spend the money. Games like this also usually sell xp/money buffs that increase the rate of experience/money gain. F2P games usually have a way to earn cash shop credit through game actions. LotRO gives you Turbine Points for completing "deeds," WoT gives clans that hold territory a gold allowance per territory held per day which the clan can then dole out to its players to buy the gold shells, (incidentally gold shells are rarely used out of clan wars for this reason, its too expensive to waste in a public match). Lastly Star Trek Online has an exchange where you can trade an ingame resource for Cryptic Points. Because these games offer ways to earn store credit in game and they make it so that any store purchases that enhance a players capabilities don't affect general game play they don't turn into "pay to win." This model is becoming increasing popular because it encourages people to try your game, and buy the parts of it they feel is worth spending money on, rather than forcing them to pay first and then make the decision if it was worth their money or not.


F2P games have a cost to the player, however this cost is optional and if you wind up spending more money than you would on a monthly sub its your own fault. The main problem is that people have this misconception that "Fee to Play" means "Everything is Free" which isn't true, only the gameplay is free.

As for speculation on what kinds of things we might expect in a cash shop look here.