111 replies to this topic

[Artifice]

The PPC, is it too good?

No.

[Prosperity Park]

The PPC... is it like having too much bacon?

[Riptor]

Quote

The PPC... is it like having too much bacon?

Youcan never have to much bacon!

[XGhostbearX]

I can't argue with bacon...

everyone keeps talking about medium lasers...yeah they're fine. My argument holds that its a moot point if I've already been able to hit you with 40 dmg (2 salvos of 2 linked ppc's), odds are you wouldn't be able to get to me in time to use them. Also by the time you would a fair ammount would most likley be destroyed. Love the 90M rule. Like I said, I've just been finding that in the later versions of the game that it was easy to load up on PPC's and dominate.

**the older IS version seems perfect for proper balance. I guess it was more the later stuff and the Clan equipment that threw it outta wack...but I guess it is susposed to.

[Mason Grimm]

XGhostbearX, on 13 February 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Just looking for some thoughts and alternatives

Your analysis might be good in a 1v1 match where kill fast = kill first most of the time. But in team play? What good is it if you shut down after killing one of the enemy? The rest of his buddies are now going to concentrate fire on you and take you out and there won't be a single thing you can do while you are cooling your heels.

Essentially you have now removed one for them and yourself from the equation. Instead of 12v12 it becomes 11v11.

Implementing a multi-system weapons loadout allows you to be a little more effective. Mix PPCs with a Gauss or an LBX and you can still unleash Whoop-arse while avoiding shutdown; this in turns allows you to stick and move, maybe take out another enemy or two.

[Lorcan Lladd]

XGhostbearX, on 14 February 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

My argument holds that its a moot point if I've already been able to hit you with 40 dmg (2 salvos of 2 linked ppc's), odds are you wouldn't be able to get to me in time to use them. Also by the time you would a fair ammount would most likley be destroyed. Love the 90M rule. Like I said, I've just been finding that in the later versions of the game that it was easy to load up on PPC's and dominate.

It's true, in the previous games and, likely, in this one, a PPC boat could disable a 'Mech or two on its own before they even got into their respective maximum firing ranges, depending on what kind of armament they're mounting.

But in MechWarrior Online, scouts using magnification and sensors should be able to spot the boating 'Mech and alert their lancemates against the sniper.
In theory, this would allow them to seek cover behind natural or man-made terrain obstructions, and, using targeting information from the scout, to effectively approach the sniper while remaining behind cover to hit it with indirect fire weapons like LRMs.

I guess we'll see what happens.
It seems pretty balanced, to me, at least, and if the implementation of those features is done right, it should be.

[Geist Null]

if you fire off so many PPCs in one alpha that you shut down, i think the opposing force should get a free mech. well, soon as they scrape your remains out of the pit anyways.

[Jack Gallows]

Lorcan Lladd, on 14 February 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

I guess we'll see what happens.
It seems pretty balanced, to me, at least, and if the implementation of those features is done right, it should be.

I'm really looking forward to how the different roles may negate the easy "load up on X weapon" boats and other failings of previous 'mech games and really make each 'mech type and role into the fore as being incredibly important and something that has a good bit of depth with strategy and tactics.

Enemy favoring a bloated force of only one scout and a ton of heavy/assault and you've got a few fire support 'mechs? Make em pay with good use of Indirect Fire, etc. etc.

[Razed]

Yeah I hadn't even thought of that aspect of it. Scout narcs your PPC boat then runs while you dance the LRM dance of death.

[Jack Gallows]

Razed, on 14 February 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Yeah I hadn't even thought of that aspect of it. Scout narcs your PPC boat then runs while you dance the LRM dance of death.

There's tons of things, like....'mech jumps over an edge and pops the PPC boat who doesn't have scout data or is being radar jammed then descends back down, etc etc.

It's not all one sided, but shows how power is nothing without proper application.

[Purps]

New guy here.

Another thing to bear in mind, is scouts mounting flamers, if they cause you heat problems (ie you're on fire) they could do a great job of tying down sniper boats while the rest of the lance closes.

[El Loco]

I wouldn't use a PPC for sniper jobs... missing costs too much, hitting won't do the job. It's not only the heat, but it takes a while before you can shoot again.
Nevertheless, it is a great weapon, if you can handle the heat. It delivers a lot of damage over larger distance, but is rather heavy, heat inefficient, and has a minimum range. There are many ways to use the PPC... mostly to give the light or medium 'Mech on the opposite side a moment to think about engaging you in serious battle. You can scare the hell out of a 20t 'Mech even if you miss, cause the pilot will know what happens if he takes the hit

[Maltduck]

it the old days of SL we used novea cats with 7 er large with no heat sinks u would use a hill go to top hit back up butten fire all 7 erlarge lazers and it would back back over hill and shut down now with 2 nova cats they worked together and would blow away anything that came after them

[ScreamingSkull]

I don't think there's anything really unbalanced about the IS PPC. In tabletop 10 damage is only able to penetrate the head, leading to a possible critical hit but never an automatic headcap. There is an argument to be made about Clan ER PPCs (15 damage 15 head, 6 tons, same range as an IS ER PPC), but I don' t think you can really complain about inbalance until you've fought a Clan Large Pulse Laser boat in Battletech (10 damage, 10 heat, 6 tons, -2 to hit, 20 range aka twice the IS version).

So far the developers are implementing what used to be called "level 1 tech" which includes technology before the Clan invasion but after the Star League's collapse. Only the essentials are in level 1 tech. Small/Medium/Large Lasers. LRMs 5/10/15/20. SRMs 2/4/6. ACs 2/5/10/20. PPCs. Flamers. Machine Guns. Hatchets. The devs are added their own flavor to this with information and role warfare, but these basic weapons are what you can expect at launch.

[GrimJim]

Ton for ton in TT is a sweet weapon to build 'Mechs with. But in the computer games recharge times are killer long vs. how fast you can pull the trigger for an AC/5. Sure do 15 in dmg per shot vs 5 for an AC, but if your opponent can fire 4 times (8 if its an Ultra) or more while you sit desperately punching the "O" overide key, it will be a short match.

Also it is a direct fire weapon. Good for punching holes. But considering most Assaults armor, you won't get the job done in a salvo or even two, whereas the venerable LRM and LB-X spreads the goodness around. You can often end a 'mech twice as fast with critical hits vs. coring the beast's engine.

Plus LRMs can shoot over hills for those pesky opponents who won't politely give your PPC LOS.

[KaiserSoze]

In honor to the true death machine "Awesome" with 4 PPCs " Suck It "

[Vergial]

Let me just state this much for you, GhostBear.

All PPCs sounds good on paper, and you seem to be aboslutely stuck to the idea.

You go ahead and run in with your setup against a team. Even a two-man or three-man team.

For this scenario, let's assume you're running Active Radar (you DO want to see your enemies at range, in order to hit them first, after all) but a lancemate and I are both running Passive (which means you won't see us on your radar right away) and we have a third spotter running Active (you'll see him immediately).

You begin the chase. The spotter knows what you're running by now, and even if he doesn't, his job is simply to attract you. You chase him. Your radar shows only him, so you feel 'safe'. He uses dunes, trees, buildings, you name it, to avoid a direct LOS to you. You cannot fire on him, but you want that one-hit kill.

He relays your location to us every second he can. We don't NEED our radars active.

My lancemate crests a hill, rounds a building, whatever, and pegs you with a TAG Laser.

And while I'm sitting behind a dune, building, blabla in my Longbow, I let loose four racks of LRM20s, and two racks of LRM10s.

You haven't hit anyone, and you're already dead.

PPCs aren't overpowered at all. Teamwork is. This scenario is one match I've been in in MW4 myself against another PPC toting loony, only I'm retelling it to put your PPC into perspective. If you can use it WELL, then great. But you come off to me as someone who isn't thinking about the fact that there is a TEAM backing up that guy you want to shoot so badly.

I have a feeling that the MW:O Devs will certainly not overlook the importance of teamwork above all else.

Edited by Vergial, 14 February 2012 - 01:45 PM.

[Jacob Davion]

Strum Wealh, on 13 February 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

As stated by other posters, the PPCs really shine whe in the hands of someone who has good aim, timing, and good heat management - it is a weapon where (perhaps moreso than others?) one benefits far more from "fighting smart" than from "fighting hard"...

Again, the Hellstar is a perfect example! X-)

[Thom Frankfurt]

Good weapon. I'm not positive on how it will be on MWO, but I love it on TT.

Head capping posibility (Death by Marauder anyone?) I try to make all of my customs to have at least one 'mech killing' weapon that does atleast 10 pts of damage. Hitting my opponents mech in the head with a large laser or something else and hurting the pilot is good and all, but I want to kill that a-hole not just give him a stinger. A hit to the head from a PPC can strip all the armor off the head and could possibly vaporize the pilot. And even if that doesn't happen you leave the pilot feeling miraclously lucky but very vulnerable because a harsh fart in his general direction could prove fatal.

But it does have it's faults, min range and heat issiues, especially with old school mechs with only single heat sinks you have to be very picky when taking your shot, else you may be that guy overheated, helpless, while your enemies use you for target practice.

So all in all I think that if you're gonna be worrying about heat to stick with large lasers or something smaller. (med lasers FTW!!!)

But if you want to strike down your enemies with lightning like you are the Thunder God Himself use it. Just use it wisely.

[Razed]

I'm not sure how the TT rules work for targeting specific body parts but scoring a headshot on a moving target is hard.