131 replies to this topic

[Pht]

SilentWolff, on 26 February 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Bryan says there is no legal battle with HG. Who knows what was agreed to behind the scenes.

I think what he meant is that there's no current or ongoing legal battle. That doesn't mean the old agreement doesn't still stand... we really have no idea.

Quote

I'm still crossing my fingers to see a Thunderbolt or a Warhammer.

I would love to see the nice unseens, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

It'd take someone with an obscene amount of money to sort out the unseen's visual rights in court; they'd have to contest it here in the states and in japan, and find witnesses and a paper trail that's twenty eight or so years old.

Edited by Pht, 26 February 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Pht, on 26 February 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

Um actually, the first one is a marauder IIC, the second is a plane-jane marauder, and I think that's even the original line art for it.

Indeed, the first one is a Marauder IIC (85-ton Clan assault 'Mech) - at least, the original art for it.
It also has a PP version:


It is much more similar in design to the PP version of the Marauder II (100-ton IS assault 'Mech) than to the Marauder (75-ton IS heavy 'Mech).

However, the "jet-plane Marauder" is, in fact, the heavier Marauder II - as shown on Sarna and on Solaris7.

And then there is the Marauder design used for the Japanese version of BattleTech :


As it happens, the Japanese BattleTech designs were apparently done by Studio Nue - the group that created Macross, and thus the original Macross-derived designs that are, today, "the Unseen".
Talk about "coming full-circle", eh?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 26 February 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[Mautty the Bobcat]

Halfinax, on 13 February 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Making this thread because I keep seeing people asking for the "Unseen" designs. There seems to be some confusion on this matter so I thought I'd clear it up.

The "Unseen" refers to the artwork of certain chassis. This artwork violated Harmony Gold's copyright holdings and will never be seen in any official BTU product ever again.

The new artwork for those chassis is the "Reseen." This new artwork does not violate Harmony Gold's copyrights, so we can look forward to seeing them. Amongst them are: The Pheonix Hawk, Warhammer, Rifleman, Locust, Marauder, and Wasp. I look forward to Flyingdebris take on the "Reseen" version of those chassis

Here's the Sarna articles on them: "Unseen" and the
"Reseen"

Actually, to clear this up, the ORIGINAL designs had a legal copyright claim because they were heavily similar and sometimes nearly directly copied from their sources. We'll probably not see LAMs... Though, any "Unseen" mech can be useable if FD takes it and puts his twist on it enough where it can still resemble the original, but does not look exactly like it.

I'm pretty sure any "unseen" mech that FD took a crack at would have no legal issues.

[Prower]

I say who cares. Sure, I loved the WArhammer. But... I also loved the Avatar and the Timberwolf.

After almost a decade of waiting... are we really going to look a gift horse in the mouth? Better yet, a LITERAL gift horse; As this sumbiatch is a FREE TO PLAY game. That its quality is even hinted at being remotely above a Warcraft equivalent of Mechwarrior (which is not hard, but is often not sought.), is damn fine enough for me.

[SMDMadCow]

Im going to have to start a "Marauder Recognition" thread, aren't I? No one has posted the actual PP Marauder IIC, which looks badass.

[Strum Wealh]

SMDMadCow, on 27 February 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Im going to have to start a "Marauder Recognition" thread, aren't I? No one has posted the actual PP Marauder IIC, which looks badass.

This one, attributed to Chris Lewis ("...an artist who has produced BattleTech art for FanPro, BattleCorps and Catalyst Game Labs. Lewis's first official BattleTech work was Technical Readout: Project Phoenix, and he is most notably recalled for producing art for a number of Technical Readouts."), is the one that is attributed by Sarna as the PP Marauder IIC:


Also, this design (representing a Marauder IIC Variant 2) apparently(?) appears in TRO 3067 and/or Field Manual: Crusader Clans:


And again (representing a Marauder IIC Variant 7) in TRO 3085 (attributed to Matt Plog):


And, then, there's this design:


So, which one (if not the first one) are you referring to as "the actual PP Marauder IIC"?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 27 February 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[SMDMadCow]

This is one of the few places where the wiki is wrong. The first image is a Marauder II (not IIC) the second is the one i was refferring to, the PP Marauder IIC, the IIC 2 model.

[Strum Wealh]

SMDMadCow, on 27 February 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

This is one of the few places where the wiki is wrong. The first image is a Marauder II (not IIC) the second is the one i was refferring to, the PP Marauder IIC, the IIC 2 model.

I brought up the PP TRO, and you're right.

I even see how the mix-up occurred.
Page 73 clearly shows the second image as the Marauder IIC (with the Marauder IIC Variant 3 appearing on page 103), but page 99 shows the first image labeled as the Marauder II C standing next to the MAD-4H variant of the Marauder II.

That is, someone at Sarna evidently mixed up the Marauder II C (the C-variant of the IS-built Marauder II (built for the Wolf's Dragoons using Clan tech); note the space between "II" and "C") with the Marauder IIC (the Clan-built successor to the original Marauder; note the lack of space between "II" and "C").

Edited by Strum Wealh, 27 February 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[Caballo]

I'm sorry. I have the miniatures in front of me (but i don't have a camera), and this is a marauder:



this is a warhammer:



and this is a rifleman:




any other thing is just another mech. Don't get me wrong: the whammy in the 2009 trailer was enough close to the original to be called "Warhammer", but those... monstrosities are simply unacceptable. The things above have no single resemblance to the marauder. I'm not saying they aren't cool, but they are clearly not for the purpose of impersonating a marauder.

My opinion is this: if that thing is going to be ingame, don't call it marauder. I prefer to not have those mechs than calling egg to a potato.

Edited by Caballo, 27 February 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Caballo, on 27 February 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

I'm sorry. I have the miniatures in front of me (but i don't have a camera), and this is a marauder:



this is a warhammer:



and this is a rifleman:




any other thing is just another mech. Don't get me wrong: the whammy in the 2009 trailer was enough close to the original to be called "Warhammer", but those... monstrosities are simply unacceptable. The things above have no single resemblance to the marauder. I'm not saying they aren't cool, but they are clearly not for the purpose of impersonating a marauder.

My opinion is this: if that thing is going to be ingame, don't call it marauder. I prefer to not have those mechs than calling egg to a potato.

Though, part of the problem is that the first was a Glaug before it was a Marauder, the second was a Tomahawk before it was a Warhammer, and the third was a Defender before it was a Rifleman...

[Aokarasu]

Caballo, on 27 February 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

My opinion is this: if that thing is going to be ingame, don't call it marauder. I prefer to not have those mechs than calling egg to a potato.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, the fact is, the current iteration is what's known as the Marauder. You may not like it, but that's what it is.

[SMDMadCow]

Aokarasu, on 27 February 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, the fact is, the current iteration is what's known as the Marauder. You may not like it, but that's what it is.

And it is that way for a reason, to prevent litigation from crazies (yeah that's HG).

[Dihm]

The PP Marauder reminds me a lot of the Ryoken/Stormcrow.

[Hartsblade]

I am an old time BT/MW player and love the original Unseen 'mechs. That said,if the Unseens are going to be in MWO then they will be redrawn by FD and given a new look, and that is to be expected. My hopes are that they are based more on the original Unseen 'mechs and not based on the Project Phoenix versions. Either way I trust that FD's versions will out shine the PP versions and I look forward to seeing his re-designs. For me I can say that if they are in the same vain as the designs we have seen so far, I will be happy.

I apologize to all of my fellow "old-timers" when I say: We will not be seeing the Unseens "as is" from the original TRO's (we will not see any 'mechs "as is" from the TRO's), but I feel we will see them reborn in FD's current MWO style. It's time we opened our minds to the changes that are coming and take an honest look at each design as they are revealed and accept them on their own merits.

[Doolie]

I'd like to see the retooled versions on the un/reseen. BT/MW without the Warhammer, Marauder, or Rifleman just doesn't seem right.

-D

[Asmeroth]

Why cant they use the reseen Designs of those mechs? Sorry about that question but i didnt read an answer about that yet.

Marauder

Warhammer:

[Dihm]

Some people don't want them to use the Reseen (Project Phoenix) designs because they think they are hideous and an abomination.

[Aokarasu]

Dihm, on 28 February 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

Some people don't want them to use the Reseen (Project Phoenix) designs because they think they are hideous and an abomination.

I've been playing since the Unseen were in the game, and I am of the stance/perspective/opinion, that those folks really need to build a bridge and get over it. I'm sure this stance will make me unpopular, but grumbling/griping about something that can't/won't be changed is a waste of time, energy, and somewhat akin to a mild tantrum.

Edited by Aokarasu, 28 February 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[Asmeroth]

I dont know...i like the reseen Marauder just as much as i like the unseen one, i have to admit that the reseen Warhammer´s Hips look a bit strange but tbh i rather have the reseen Models than not having those Mechs at all.

[Mautty the Bobcat]

Dihm, on 28 February 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

Some people don't want them to use the Reseen (Project Phoenix) designs because they think they are hideous and an abomination.

This is pretty much the case, and the picture of miniatures Asmeroth posted are in my opinion quite hideous. The marauder is the worst offender, as its entire center mass is sitting behind the feet...that thing should be falling backwards on its *** right now! The old design proportioned the center mass of weight over the feet, it may have looked similar, but there was a larger area of mass towards the front and the feet weren't as far forward. As for the Warhammer...just what the hell...it doesn't even have a resemblance to the original beefy design that we know and love.

Now, if it were the case that these were entirely different mechs, I could accept the Warhammer. The Marauder on the other hand, the PP design is just godawful.