131 replies to this topic

[Maurice]

so i cant see my baby 3055s Stone Rhino .that sucks

[Big Willie]

The sad thing about the unseen is that they were draw to the game for many of us old timers, and they hold a great deal of nostalgia. That being said the weapons loadouts and technical designs weren't all that great, but when you remember back it doesn't matter.

The fact is, an Awesome is (IMO) a better functional mech than the maurader and warhammer, but lacks any personality (style) and weighs in at an assault class 80 tons. And the maurader has a slim profile going for it making it a harder target.

The Catapult makes an effective Crusader/Archer replacement (I am so glad the catapult is in, it is one of my favorite designs both aestheticly and functionaly)

The hardest hit are the 55 ton trinity: Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine. They were never adequetly replaced, although the Dragon and Dervish are ok.

The Pheonix Hawk also left a huge vacancy as a fast, jumping, heavily armed, heavily armored, medium mech. Of course of all the unseen I think the iconic macross mechs will be missed the least (Pheonix Hawk, Stinger, Wasp, Valkarie), these are the same mechs that brought us hand actuators and guns.

I'll end this on the sadest note personally, the loss of the Rifleman. It was a horrible functional design, but in my opinion one of the coolest looking mechs ever drawn. The feeble attempt at a faximile, the Jaggermech, is just salt in the wound. The one thing that that I will miss most about MWO is the artwork that drew me in, massive chests with cannon arms. Hopefully flyingdebris can find a common ground for some of these designs.

[Marauder3D]

If I was technologically inclined and capable, I would link you a picture in the text of my response, but I am hopeless, so here is a link to the Project Phoenix Rifleman. I honestly thin it looks pretty good. Sure, it isn't the Rifleman you loved, but we know those are gone forever legally speaking.

Big Willie, on 15 February 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

I'll end this on the sadest note personally, the loss of the Rifleman. It was a horrible functional design, but in my opinion one of the coolest looking mechs ever drawn. The feeble attempt at a faximile, the Jaggermech, is just salt in the wound. The one thing that that I will miss most about MWO is the artwork that drew me in, massive chests with cannon arms. Hopefully flyingdebris can find a common ground for some of these designs.

http://www.sarna.net...6x_rifleman.png

Far too early for RACs, but I think the RAC rifleman looks great:

http://www.sarna.net...8d_rifleman.jpg

Edited by Marauder3D, 16 February 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[John Moon]

As far as I am concerned, this is a Warhammer...


And this is not...


I refuse to use the reseen in my battletech games (except the Rifleman... which is pretty damn cool and the only decent reseen).

Edited by John Moon, 26 February 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[Aokarasu]

Halfinax, on 13 February 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Making this thread because I keep seeing people asking for the "Unseen" designs. There seems to be some confusion on this matter so I thought I'd clear it up.

The "Unseen" refers to the artwork of certain chassis. This artwork violated Harmony Gold's copyright holdings and will never be seen in any official BTU product ever again.

To be fair/honest, the main reason HG "won" is because they could afford to keep the legal proceedings going longer than FASA could. The actual veracity of the copyright claim was a good bit more nebulous, as I understand it.

[Mason Grimm]

John, I agree with you about the Warhammer but I think some of the Reseen are pretty cool.

In the beginning I didn't like the Marauder reseen and guess what? the GRC sports three of them now....



2x Marauder (Reseen) and 1x Marauder II for the Command lance...

I would sooner slit my wrists though than use the Reseen Crusader...

I also have 2x Reseen Archers in the GRC.

[Outlaw2]

Aokarasu, on 26 February 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

To be fair/honest, the main reason HG "won" is because they could afford to keep the legal proceedings going longer than FASA could. The actual veracity of the copyright claim was a good bit more nebulous, as I understand it.

Yea basically Harmony Gold wanted it more, and FASA didn't think it was worth the effort to try and keep them...and MS didn't either later on. But HG's US rights over those images is by no means rock solid. HG are just very persistent.

BTW, I actually don't mind the Crusaders new look. Actually the only unseens I will miss are the archer, marauder, rifleman and warhammer...their reseens are no where near as good and/or iconic.

However All the other unseens....meh, I could VERY easily live with a FD sprucced up version of their reseen version.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 26 February 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

I am new to the concept of " unseen " . but understand the principle as to why some are not seen. However, if you go to dev blog 0 Reboot, and look at the full colour footage you will notice in the right hand side of the cockpit display the mech being piloted is in fact a Warhammer....unless my eyes were playing tricks on me so we may have them but not as rendered previously.

[Morashtak]

Seeing a number of field maintenance logjams with the Unseen's;

• Too many curved surfaces. While good for deflecting force and maybe reducing the radar signature it's a PITA to maintain and repair. Not to mention that a panel has to be on hand or if it needs to be ordered you'll be waiting for the next supply ship to deliver it. And a curved surface makes for less room under it unless you make the panel bigger which starts it's own set of problems.
  
• Non-standard surfaces. Flat is best for quick repair. Similar sized panels that can be patched using similar sized patches would make for quick field repairs. Can't see these 'Mechs being built all these years without a "Blue Team" of designers going out to the field and getting the crew chiefs inputs.
  
• Naked Weapons. I cringe every time I see a design where the gun barrels are just hanging out there waiting for a missile barrage to take it out. At the very least there need to be armor sleeves wrapped around them. Makes me scream "Bulk up those weapons!"
  
• Huge weapon pods hanging on stick thin upper arms. Visual balance is all out of whack. Any recoil is going to give the upper arm structure repetitive stress cracks. Again, "Bulk up those arms!"

Those are just some of my least favorite things of the Unseens. Those designs just beg to be thought of being magically repaired with pixie dust and faerie tears.

[mindwarp]

As far as the reseen versions went, it was only the Shadow Hawk and the Marauder I didn't like. Some of the reseens - like the Thunderbolt - I actually thought looked better. The only problem I had with them vanishing and not being able to be used in computer games etc was that those designs filled pretty crucial roles. Losing mechs like the Locust definitely cut down on the proper recon mechs in 3025 and the loss of the medium strike mechs (Griffin/Shadow Hawk/Wolverine) was a massive blow. The Bombardier, Lancelot and Flashman certainly did not make up for the loss of the Archer, Warhammer and Marauder.

[Slepnir]

Brakkyn, on 13 February 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Harmony Gold is only protecting what is legally theirs by law. The fault lies in those who took those original images from their proper place and slapped new names on them and made them into something they weren't.

That said, they are now also a part of BattleTech and cannot be ignored. They exist, for the most part, in name only, but they exist. I am certain that, if these Unseen can find their way to be included in MWO, Flying Debris will give us some excellent and completely acceptable substitutions.

Funny little thing about that, HG tried that line with bandai&co with the newer macross releases(plus, zero, frontier). because HG held the rights for the US release of the ORIGINAL macross they somehow thought they deserved rights to the new series and threatened legal action against the japanese creators who promptly told them to go stuff it...sadly this means no official US releases of the above series in all their glory aside from those of us who get our hands on the imports and fan subs.

The only problem i have with some of the re-seen/unseen is that some of the rescuilpts are great like the thunderbolt and marauder while others are just plain hideous like the warhammer(i use a hammerhand as my warhammer) and pheonix hawk.

[Thorn Hallis]

I can hardly forget that the unseens ever existed. I always see their miniatures when I enter my living room, so...

And go away with that PP Marauder.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 26 February 2012 - 03:29 PM.

[Outlaw2]

Thorn Hallis, on 26 February 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

I can hardly forget that the unseens ever existed. I always see their miniatures when I enter my living room, so...

And go away with that FD Marauder.

FD Marauder?
I'd like to see that

[Thorn Hallis]

=Outlaw=, on 26 February 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

FD Marauder?
I'd like to see that

My fault, I ment PP Marauder (Project Phonix). I'll correct my post.

[Pht]

John Moon, on 26 February 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

As far as I am concerned, this is a Warhammer...

And this is not...

I refuse to use the reseen in my battletech games (except the Rifleman... which is pretty damn cool and the only decent reseen).

The reseen battlemaster and griffin are decent. That said, I'm with you, the reseen 'hammer isn't warhammer.

Mason Grimm, on 26 February 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

John, I agree with you about the Warhammer but I think some of the Reseen are pretty cool.

In the beginning I didn't like the Marauder reseen and guess what? the GRC sports three of them now....

HERETIC! BURN HIM! BURN HIM!

Seriously, that's not what a marauder looks like; and even besides that, the reseen marauder didn't get smacked with the ugly stick ... it had the dna from the ugly tree grafted into it at conception; and at birth just for good measure it was tossed down into a forest of ugly-tree redwoods at mach 10.

Edited by Pht, 26 February 2012 - 04:25 PM.

[Mason Grimm]

I've got my Fairie Dust and Pixie Tears right here so you may all feel free to take very long walks off very short piers, ya know?

Haters!!!!

Unless HG implodes or there is some act of god I would be very surprised to see the Unseen in the game. I think the NAMES will be in game (ie: there will be a mech called Marauder) but I doubt we will see anything close to the originals. As for the PP mechs? I think that is the basis that FD will work from for Reseen chassis. Look how different the Centurion is from the original? We could see the same difference in the Unseen/Reseen/Whatever mechs.

Too many people are hung up on "I want THIS style of machine in the game" and are forgetting that FD is going to retouch any and every mech with his own style and impression on how they should be. This will give us a ton of new mechs to love or hate.

[Pht]

Mason...

It's all for the maruader. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

'Cmon now, there's no comparison ...






A thing of beauty, it is...

[Strum Wealh]

Pht, on 26 February 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Mason...

It's all for the maruader. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

'Cmon now, there's no comparison ...






A thing of beauty, it is...

Except the second one is a Marauder II, not a Marauder.

Marauder:

vs




Marauder II:

vs



As long as it's in the game (and looks good and invokes the spirit of the original and/or PP designs), it's all good, right?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 26 February 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[Pht]

Um actually, the first one is a marauder IIC, the second is a plane-jane marauder, and I think that's even the original line art for it.

[SilentWolff]

I'll be disappointed if we dont see the unseen in some capacity. They are old school iconic mechs that DESERVE to be in the game. Bryan says there is no legal battle with HG. Who knows what was agreed to behind the scenes. I'm still crossing my fingers to see a Thunderbolt or a Warhammer.