=Outlaw=, on 02 March 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:
If its the same VictorMorson I know of, then he is a long time league player and unit leader. In which case he is WELL aware of roles and their effect in a match.
I think his point was without restrictions, most roles can be filled with heavier hitters.
Sure a Scat is a fantastic brawler, but when push comes to shove I'd rather have a Timberwolf doing the same exact thing. Most heavies and assaults fill every role except maybe the most extreme super fast scouts. Even then ecm/bap lokis in NBT were excellent scouts, and were our unit's go-to scout mech if we could spare it.
Hell, Im sure even in Battletech they'd do the same...if it wasn't for those pesky things such as costs and logistics.
BTW, I think you are putting too much faith in objectives solving everything. In NBT we played in plenty of objective based maps....didn't really change the underlying tactics. Killing the other side's mechs is still a fantastic strategy regardless of the objective. Also, a veteran player in a light mech could take on a assault player...if its a newbie. Against a veteran assault player...no.
Hey Outlaw! Yep, same Victor. Good to see some more NBT folks, hopefully we'll get to see each other in-game at launch - we're definitely reforming the Blazing Aces there.
That's exactly what I was trying to say, you got it right on the nose. If there's no restrictions, I'd doubtlessly swap a Shadow Cat out for a Timerwolf, Novacat, etc. every single time. Honestly, even in objective play, a lot of Timberwolves were nearly as fast as the typical Shadow Cat, just armed far better.
On top of that a concern after playing MWLL is with pre-set variants in MWLL, the differences between a good variant and bad variant are extremely pronounced, but ironically I found that this actually gave purpose to the bad variants - some poorly armed mediums were on par with the price of a typical light, and some lights were on price with a typical heavy in that game, but it was really necessary; if the game was a tonnage sim, I'd probably never looked at quite a few fun designs. From what I've read about MWO the 'mech customization will be limited to armor and speed changes, but I don't think they've clearly spelled it out yet.
Aegis Kleais™, on 02 March 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:
What I'm saying is that if the Mech doesn't prove to be useful, it is either that PGI did not give the chassis enough worth, or that players have not yet unlocked the potential of the Mech. If the former, it's understandable that players would not choose it. But this is all to be seen. I'm really hoping for variety and hope that Lights/Mediums provide players who enjoy those chassis with something that they cannot find in Heavies/Assaults.
Some 'mechs are just inferior to others in terms of capabilities. It's a fact of the BTU; this even includes variants of the same 'mechs. Are you suggesting that they should balance a the AC/20 Hunchback with, for example, the UAC/20 T2 Hunchback? One is simply better than the other. Past that, chassis to chassis, it's impossible to make a Hunchback that has an even chance in group combat (where coordinating fire on a single target is VERY important) with an Atlas. The Atlas just has 50 more tons of space to work with for armor and guns.
That's not to say the Hunchback is a bad 'mech. It's a positively great front line fighter. When you need to bring a lot of firepower for the tonnage or price point, it's likely to be great. But if my entire team can field heavier equipment instead, there's no reason to ever use it.
As far as Objectives go, there's a reason I'm saying "11 assaults and 1 light" and not "12 assaults." You'd want a recon/raider pilot out there, in particular if you're taking mostly heavy stuff, not just to find targets but in objective based games act purely as a harasser. They can get there first and tie the enemy up for a minute or so just being annoying (say, darting into and out of a capture zone playing defensively) if there was a capture game type, etc. Again to use LL as a reference point, often when I'd drop with my coordinated friends on objective maps, two of us would field Harassers right out the gate (a super fast light tank) while our focus would be getting everybody else in assaults as quickly as possible. So really, objective based gameplay isn't going to save the light/medium 'mechs role in the game on a larger scale. Ultimately the team that brings the most guns and armor to the objective for the final capture/attack will be the team that wins it.
I whole heartedly agree that a skilled light 'mech could beat an assault, with more or less difficulty depending on the game in question. Turn rates and acceleration speed is something impossible to guess about MWO right now: It's the biggest changing factor between MechWarrior titles. But the problem is when you're talking groups - a group of lights can't really beat a group of assaults, because the assaults are then in a position to cover each other (no blind spots) and mass firepower. In otherwords, if a light tries to out turn an Atlas, it can be done. If a light tries to outturn 2 Atlas, it's always going to be in one guy's guns or the other. If four lights try to do that to four Atlas, the lights won't even get much damage in.
Again I'm not trying to say light & medium 'mechs are bad, at all, and they fill a great role in terms of cost effectiveness and weight. I could easily make the case that 2 Hunchbacks are worth more than 1 Atlas in MWO terms, but I can't make the case that 2 Hunchbacks are anywhere on par with 2 Atlas.