137 replies to this topic

[Bloody Moon]

@OP I wonder if you realize how many of the popular games are just as complex if not even more so than MWO. Just to mention the Role-Warfare can be summarized into 4 classes effectively: scout, medium fighter, heavy fighter, crawling fortress with some differences according to the mech at hand, not that hard right?

Usually in teamgames if someone won't do what he should then there will be players who rage at him also there will be some who will try to help him. Personally i tend to teach newbies if he is humble enough or asks for help, but those who say nothing or just flame&fail all game get nothing from me. Except maybe some cheesy comment on their performance.

Overall threads like this point in the direction that MWO should have some newbie pool in matchmaking where everyone is just that, a new player with no flashy tools.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 05 March 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[DarkTreader]

Metro, on 05 March 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

森小熊 is this symbol, Korean , Japenese or Chinese??


it translates differently in all 3 languages.

It doesn't look hangul, so that rules out Korean... The first and last characters are too complicated to be simple hiragana/katakana script, so either Chinese or Japanese Kanji (as they're visually almost identical, only translated slightly different in some cases).

[ArchLurker Chad]

I'm one of the newbies. I've only played MW4 mercs and loved it.
The one big reason I'm attracted to this game is because it doesn't sound like one of the dumbed down shooters out there where you run around and shoot! As mentioned above; we got enough of those crappy console shooters out there already!

I'm not scared off by the vastness of the universe of the game, simply because I don't care about the story/lore. At all.
I'm here because of what I believe will be one of the most unique pvp gameplay experiences ever, and not just another CoD/quake/halo game.
The role warfare is truly intriguing and I'm looking forward to it. You're scared it will repel newbies because it forces them to play in teams?
Look at League of Legends for a moment. It's a fairly complex game to get into, with new players having to learn what all the champions can do and what their roles in a team are, and play as a team, even in games where you don't know any of the other players. And it's one of the biggest games out there now.

As for the customisation of weapons, we don't know much there. But I doubt it's going to be a headache.
I'm of the opinion that in this case the complexity itself is what will bring players to the game. There are already so many boring run'n'gun shooters out there that are so dumbed down it's saddening. MWO will stand out from all those games because of this. It's free to play too which will let new players try it out with nothing to loose. There's never been a game like this. The poor players that have only played the simple shooters may find that they like this much more and in retrospect wonder why they ever thought CoD was fun.

Too long have we waited for a game like this. Don't ruin it now.

[LakeDaemon]

Hey..uh.. whatever your name means,

You dont have to read the books or be familiar with the TT game. MWO will be set up not unlike other online games with stages to advance through, experience to accumulate that translate into upgrades. This is not going to an esoterc game just for the enthusiasts. It will be fun and exciting for casual players but it will also have roles to explore and experience-based advancementfor people who want to dig a little deeper. So its not unlike other online games. MWO also has an ongoing BT timeline and joining a faction would let players actually play a part in the classic forces of BT.

If you like less complex, but still fun, MW action then try MWLL.

If you want something even less complex then try MA.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 05 March 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[Lyon]

Quote

Piranha isn't going to make this game as inaccessible as you fear.

And I hope they won't dumb it down as much as I fear. Serving the few casual gamers is self-defeating if it costs you the many hardcore gamers. Everyone here was a noob once, we're not out to push them away. At the same time, the majority of this community have no intention whatsoever of throwing out everything we've built to make the noobs love giant death robots more...that would be ridicuolous. We'll welcome the new players, teach them what they're willing to learn, and Darwinize those incapable of learning.

@Archlurker Chad: <sniff> I love you, man.

Edited by Lyon, 05 March 2012 - 07:55 AM.

[Poultron]

I think, as with any game, the level of support you get from fellow players will be dependent on how you treat your fellow players. If you run in willy-nilly, just expecting to 'win' by nagging help from people, you probably won't get any. But if you approach the game with maturity, an open mind and do your homework (ie - RTFM) I'm sure people here, like anywhere, would be more than willing to help you.

This game will predominantly be played by fans to start with, and as fans (I assume) we'd try to encourage others to pick up MWO and BattleTech as a hobby. And ya don't do that by being a pompous oaf.

I used to lead a small clan in MechWarrior4 in an on-line tourney and sure there are moments when you want to reach down the mic and throttle some ***** that's just tried to pick a fight with an Daishi, while he's supposed to be doing spotting in a Raven. But fundamentally everyone is pulling in the same direction and as such will, more or less, be helpful.

[Rix]

I love MechWarrior. I love tooling around in a giant Mech blowing up other Mechs. I know a little of the lore but not enough to be able to explain any of it. I'll leave the nuances of the game to the people who run the Clans and I will climb into my Mech, shoot at the enemy and do my best to win for my Clan.

Essentially, I will start out as a grunt who just wants to hear "Weapons online" which is what a lot of players in the game will be. As long as they have a good clan with good leadership, they will enjoy the game.

[DaZur]

森小熊, on 05 March 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

I do realize that wording my question as such was vague, so I will propose it again. "How will MWO make the battletech universe inviting?" How will MWO nurture new players and allow them to enjoy this game? As one person stated, a tutorial will probably be present. However, a tutorial is not enough for a universe as detailed as battletech. Will you, as members of the community welcome new players, hold their hands and mentor them? or will you shun them until they have the requisite knowledge and skills to become immersed in the universe.

In the middle of a match, if a new player is running and gunning, and not serving the team well, will you shout at them, or will you offer them a helping hand?

Let me preface this by saying I am a huge advocate of welcoming new members into this genre...

That said, expectations of this community and the game mechanics themselves to effectively coddle a new-comer will be severely limited. Much of this responsibility must fall on the new-comer, as they need to meet the community in the middle and is their own personal responsibility. I suspect the "helping-hand" and introduction to this genre and it's universe will be provided mostly by direction to various links, documentation and websites. Failure by a newcomer to acknowledge these resources and make a cursory effort to assimilate this information will quickly wear thin and will result in some hardship for a newcomer.

In a nutshell, to answer your question frankly... This community will go out of it's way to welcome newcomers but as the saying goes... "One cannot help someone until they help themselves". Expectations for the community to incessantly and gently lead newcomers around by the hand with soft words and unending patience without "them" putting a little effort into it, is a bit of a stretch.

Edited by DaZur, 05 March 2012 - 08:06 AM.

[StaggerCheck]

The game will not be too complex. The table top game can be picked up and played with little to no effort. From there the effort to get really good increases. You can, if you wish, get into the different Houses and their histories, conflicts and old aggressions. This is pure gravy. These message boards are what they are... 60000 seagulls fighting over a dropped bag of french fries in the McDonalds parking lot, because the Dev team does not feed us very much at the moment.

As for the complexity of the game itself, I really see some good things being done. If they stick close to canon, Mechs will have a variety of roles to fill, based on mass, speed and weapon load. When combat starts the game turns into a balancing act between heat generated vs. heat dissipated. If you generate more heat than dissipated, your Mech loses effective movement, targeting and... in severe cases, can suffer ammunition explosions internally or Mechwarrior damage. This is really no different from any Mechwarrior game previously produced, but the Dev Team is, for what seems like the first time ever, going to stick to a simplified system that will be easy for the average gamer to understand... the system from the board game! [Shocking to read, I know!]

Let’s take the Commando, for example. If memory serves, the Mech has 10 heatsinks and a weapon load of 1 Medium Laser, 1 Short-range missile 4 pack [SRM 4] and 1 Short-range Missile 6 pack [SRM 6]. Medium lasers generate 3 heat when fired, SRM 4 packs also generate 3 heat when fired. The SRM 6 pack generates 4 heat when fired. If they stick close to movement heat generation, which I see no reason why they wouldn’t, walking generates 1 heat, running 2 and standing still generates 0 heat. So… given a standard combat ‘round’ or ‘turn’, the Commando would probably look something like this…

10 heatsinks available

Mech ran [+2] and fired a full salvo of weapons [3+3+4=10] for a total of 12 heat generated. The 10 available heatsinks would dissipate 10 of the 12 heat generated, leaving a +2 heat surplus.

Heat management is as simple as that in the board game, round to round. The player can either choose to push that limit, or slack off on weapon fire to offset that heat gain. Say firing both SRM packs the following turn after a run, generating 9 heat. The 10 available heatsinks would dissipate the 9 heat generated, and then reduce anything in the surplus range… dropping the overall heat surplus by 1 point, down to a net of +1.

As for a new player coming into this universe and feeling like they don't belong, I could draw a comparison to World of Warcraft. You can join the game and level up on your own [as a lone wolf], or you can join a Merc company or House and play with friends or new friends you meet along the way. It will come down to how you wish to play the game and how you feel comfortable.

Hope this little insight clears things up for you, and welcome aboard.

[Sears]

It'll be in the best interest of a Lance's Commander to bring new players up to speed and get them to work coherently as a unit. Hopefully the battlegrid system will make it clear where and what the commander wants you to do.

[GaussDragon]

森小熊, on 05 March 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

A good example of this is this topic. Only the 5th post in provided a constructive response that suggested where a new player should begin, and this was by a mod. A few members posted derisive comments regarding console gaming. many of the responses to this topic simply stated that such complexity is what make the game good, not answering my question of how MWO is not going to be just more of the same.

This. Spasmatic reactions that parry into red herrings and straw men about console games are very common around here.

Lyon, on 05 March 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Serving the few casual gamers is self-defeating if it costs you the many hardcore gamers.

I think you may have the proportions inverted.

My 2 cents: This game will probably be fun by all of our subjective measures of whatever that may be. It won't be callofmechassaultstupidconsolegameforthemassesrabblerabblerabble. And questions asking whether or not this game should be more inviting to new players do not equate to a poster saying this game should be callofmechassaultstupidconsolegameforthemassesrabblerabblerabble.

Edited by GaussDragon, 05 March 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[GaussDragon]

StaggerCheck, on 05 March 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

These message boards are what they are... 60000 seagulls fighting over a dropped bag of french fries in the McDonalds parking lot, because the Dev team does not feed us very much at the moment.

Hahaha, this is a great analogy. Up there with the remark a few weeks ago about about 'the future equivalent of the phone company waging a holy war'.

[Killian Axe]

What a stravag freebirth comment to make. I truly hope the complexity of this game scares away desgra like yourself.

[AdamBaines]

From what I have read from all the Q&A it seesm like the entry point for new players is pretty simple. You pick a Faction (like you would in most online games) get a Mech, get a mission or get into an instant match and shoot things. It seems you can keep it that simple if you want, or really get into it an persuse specfic roles and etc. Look at most online game that are MMOs, there is a learning curve there. It does not seem this one will be any more complicated at its core then say WOW, WOT, etc.

Then again no one really knows to we get our hands on it.

[wwiiogre]

In any team based games, solo and pub and noob players are going to be at a disadvantage in a game based completely on team and clan play. Any good team or clan or house will be actively recruiting new players and will have training programs in place. Why, because all of us know that will ensure the games longevity meaning all of us get to play more. As with any community you are going to have the good with the bad and really there is nothing that can be done about that. As part of a merc group, I looked long and hard and read alot of posts until I found a group I wanted to be a part of. So it is up to the individual to do their research when they join this game, if we as a community are smart we will do everything we can to help new players enjoy the game early and often. I am an old grognard and have been around since the beginning of battletech(droids) and thru every incarnation of the video games. I have read all the novels and alot of the fan fiction as well. I have played on the tabletop and roleplayed with hardcore gamers. Yet, I will be one of those trying to help new players and welcome them into a great game and fantasy world. Why? Because I want more people to kill online or to save me by being there when I get overwhelmed.

chris

[Vexgrave Lars]

We welcome all mature players (personallity is important)! If your nervous, unsure, concerned... Check out the 1st Robinson Rangers.

We can teach you the "technical stuff", and share our enthusiasm for the game. This goes for anyone new to the great mythology of the Inner Sphere! There are more web resources than one could imagine which contains the rich and detailed history of the game world, not to mention books, and people to talk to, who can drone on for hours about battle tactics, theory, motivations. The Battletech universe will provoke your OCD, if you get into it.

I know even though it might look intimidating when your new, once you get with a group to spend time with, especially with knowledgable players (In the history and original games, because no one has played MWO yet) new players can quickly be made comfortable. Battletech is equal to Chess with Partical Cannons (More rules than Chess.. but essentially), and Mechwarrior is simply your being the pilot of the Chess piece (The Pilot gets stats and perks, so even a few more rules)... with particle cannons!

To all you experienced Mercs and House Knights out there... keep your arms open for these new players - they need us

....getting into the cockpit and shooting stuff... Well thats probably as simple as any other FPS/Sim out there.. If thats all your looking for, you'll be just as good to go.

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 05 March 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[Thomas Covenant]

I have only played MechWarrior 4 Mercinaries- and loved it, then came here seeing potential to take that experience and add a layer of depth. I have read in the dev blogs that actual gameplay will be made simple for greenhorns yet veterans will have access to micromanage all the finite details.

This game will really focus on you as a pilot of a mech, the true definition of 'mechwarrior'. I see your question aswered as viewing the MWO experience, forums included, as a learning curve. Mechwarrior online will be a persistant online game so complexity and depth is needed for player wanting extract a deeper experience. Can you get a well rounded community and gameplay experience as both a enthusiast and a battletech inductee? I believe yes, it is a major design goal, "spiritually" and financially for the MWO team.

[Technoviking]

Quote

'I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to [please everyone]' -Bill Cosby

However i WOULD miss you, so:

I'm pretty sure there is not going to be a forced 10 point start up procedure. The core of the game, as much as the grognards and hardcore will see more in it, will probably be, "Accelerate to range, fire weapons at target". That's it. If you can manage those two things, you've got the handle on it. You can play.

From there on, its just learning more and more advance tricks, like any sport.

Edited by Technoviking, 05 March 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[Lyon]

GaussDragon, on 05 March 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

I think you may have the proportions inverted.

Don't think so. We've had decades to build up a fanatic fan base. We've assimilated all the fans of other lesser mecha games, and grown stronger. We are many, we are legion. And we have beards.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Lyon, on 05 March 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Don't think so. We've had decades to build up a fanatic fan base. We've assimilated all the fans of other lesser mecha games, and grown stronger. We are many, we are legion. And we have beards.

Yes.. beards....