64 replies to this topic

[Moenrg]

LORDxXxTAO, on 16 March 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Just wanted to point this out the game is set in 3049 but the clans dont invade until 3050.
Just saying.

The invasion starts August 3049, it's just in the periphery until March 3050.

Peiper, on 16 March 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Comstar will stay nuetral as usual,

Very, very wrong. One of Comstar's goals is to 'encourage' the Successor States to beat each other into the stone age. Then when mankind has been has been reduced to stone knives and bearskins, they will step in and be the "new" star league. As we see in 'The price of Glory' and the Warrior Trilogy, they take an active role in destroying mankind's access to knowledge and act constantly to ensure no Successor State ever gains dominance over another. Lets not forget that they tried 'Operation Scorpion' during the clan invasion (though after tukayyid). Comstar's neutrality is a sham. If there was no clans, Comstar would eventually be revealed as the true enemy of man.

SnowDragon, on 13 March 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

You know, if Clan gear is supposed to be as hardcore as they want, there's a good chance no player will EVER get their hands on Clan gear. I reckon Clans might just be Bots...

I keep coming to this conclusion too. If clans are introduced after initial launch, how will their pilots be 'elite', as their pilots will be months behind IS pilots? However, I thought there was no PvE part of this game. It would work nicely if the clans were PvE, we would eventually recover their mechs and weapons after many fights. Speculation is fun nonetheless.

Edited by Moenrg, 16 March 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[Jack Gammel]

Moenrg, on 16 March 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

Lets not forget that they tried 'Operation Scorpion' during the clan invasion (though after tukayyid). Comstar's neutrality is a sham. If there was no clans, Comstar would eventually be revealed as the true enemy of man.

You are right that ComStar is anything but neutral, but let's be fair about Operation Scorpion. Myndo Waterly was insane, and she planned Operation Scorpion without the knowledge of many high level members of ComStar.

[Pvt Dancer]

Gremlich Johns, on 12 March 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

Then you will have succession war after succession war........ Yawn. No great tech except for forestry mecha.

Mech conflict vs mech conflict is the same. If your going to be bored with it, your playing the wrong game. If your idea of 'fun' mech vs mech conflict is having better tech than your opponent, then your idea of fun is shooting fish in a barrel. OMG, your skill might actually matter and not have a crutch of better tech!

To be honest, that is what ****** me off about most clan players is that kind of attitude. It is all fun and games when you have the advantage, but if the playing field was even (clan vs clan) suddenily the tears start to roll... and then all they have is a even match. You also have the problem that Clan tech was so stupidly powerful and broken, that FASA had to try to impose restrictions on the players using it... something most players ignored. If the Devs can not artifically enforce some form of balance... like forcing people to fire only on one target till it is dead by not allowing them to shoot other mechs, or gang up on mechs, much less the tonnage thing, clans will not work. Maybe penalizing them severily for it after the match (like FF in WoT) at least.

It shouldn't matter /what/ the tech level is. If you can't hack standard tech, you don't deserve to play with clan tech, much less lost tech.

If they had Unseen and nothing but the 3025 TRO mechs, I would enjoy this game. Having some lost tech is fine. I just hope they did not paint themselves into a corner by doing the day by day timeline gimmick. Besides, 95% of the mechs after the 3025 book are so damn ugly they make my gums bleed, and the other 5% are barily tolerable.

[Brakkyn]

I would be totally fine not being able to play as a Clanner. I wouldn't play as one even if given the option.

Besides, you cannot trust players to adhere to any sort of Clan-like behavior. They might run around affing and negging and seylaing themselves into their graves, but when you get on the battlefield, all that Clan mumbo-jumbo goes out the window, so what's the point?

The only discernable advantage is access to better equipment, and who doesn't want that? I'm simply saying we don't need it to have a good, fun game.

R.I.P. Adrian Kohl.

[DavidHurricane]

Quote

What if there are no clans

Then I would commit suicide.

[LORDxXxTAO]

Whats the problem the story is already written. if the clan has tech advantage in the lore then it should be so in the game.In my opinion what is is. As fans its our job to enjoy the mechwarrior universe not rewrite it to our liking. in other word the devs set the stage according to the lore and im good. I'm from house marik and the clan has given us no reason for concern. all those whiners must be from the periphery lmao.

[Peiper]

Moenrg, on 16 March 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

The invasion starts August 3049, it's just in the periphery until March 3050.

Timeline-wise for us, it means that the FRR will be invaded March 2013. Plenty of time for us to practice!


Very, very wrong. One of Comstar's goals is to 'encourage' the Successor States to beat each other into the stone age. Then when mankind has been has been reduced to stone knives and bearskins, they will step in and be the "new" star league. As we see in 'The price of Glory' and the Warrior Trilogy, they take an active role in destroying mankind's access to knowledge and act constantly to ensure no Successor State ever gains dominance over another. Lets not forget that they tried 'Operation Scorpion' during the clan invasion (though after tukayyid). Comstar's neutrality is a sham. If there was no clans, Comstar would eventually be revealed as the true enemy of man.

I didn't want their agents to catch me. Glad you'll be the one to be devlin stoned to death! Makes me wonder, (chews his lower lip) what if the my Devil Dogs take Terra from Comstar BEFORE the clan invasion?

I keep coming to this conclusion too. If clans are introduced after initial launch, how will their pilots be 'elite', as their pilots will be months behind IS pilots? However, I thought there was no PvE part of this game. It would work nicely if the clans were PvE, we would eventually recover their mechs and weapons after many fights. Speculation is fun nonetheless.

IF the clans were PvP, I wonder if Zellbringen will be put into play. I was playing MWIV last night on veteran with two lances of heavies vs. 'a full binary of Jade Falcon' mechs. If I were to practice Zellbringen, I would challenge Anastasia to trial by single combat. Instead, though the bots are supposed to be Jade Falcon traditionalists as the fight is a trial of possession, they immediately go into free-for-all mode and kick my rear by weight of numbers and the fact that her bots are better than mine.

Yes, speculation is fun! But oddly, the problem with the clans remains not with their tech, but their players both in battletech TT and MW. The CULTURE of the clans is what is meant to be the balancer in the game, but in TT that required roleplaying when most of us just wanted to bash each other with the new mechs, and in MW, programming bots with honor, or rewarding human players properly for it is quite a challenge for the devs/programmers, I would think.

I've TRIED to play with IS mechs in the MW games, but in the end find myself giving into the arms race. Unless they can come up with a way to enforce zellbringen, I'm not sure how PVP will be fair. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just not seeing HOW. I am going off what I KNOW from dev. blogs, though, so there could be a lot of options for the clans they are keeping their mouth shut on - for good reason!

As of now, the only way to keep things fair is a black market for clan tech, but considering the great loss of storyline and character that would suggest. I say let's let our companies salvage chassis and refit our mechs with clan tech as it's far more interesting, and promotes trading within merc/loyalist companies - that is, promote teamwork and community, yay!

[Brakkyn]

Peiper, on 16 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

IF the clans were PvP, I wonder if Zellbringen will be put into play. I was playing MWIV last night on veteran with two lances of heavies vs. 'a full binary of Jade Falcon' mechs. If I were to practice Zellbringen, I would challenge Anastasia to trial by single combat. Instead, though the bots are supposed to be Jade Falcon traditionalists as the fight is a trial of possession, they immediately go into free-for-all mode and kick my rear by weight of numbers and the fact that her bots are better than mine.

I noticed playing that mission with invincibility on, and going solo, the other Clan 'Mechs won't attack you, but Thastus will. After she's down, it's a free-for-all.

Also, if you play with lancemates, and order them to attack her, they won't.

I'm not sure if it's a specific difficulty or what, but I thought that was interesting.

[Gremlich Johns]

Pvt Dancer, on 16 March 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Mech conflict vs mech conflict is the same. If your going to be bored with it, your playing the wrong game. If your idea of 'fun' mech vs mech conflict is having better tech than your opponent, then your idea of fun is shooting fish in a barrel. OMG, your skill might actually matter and not have a crutch of better tech!

To be honest, that is what ****** me off about most clan players is that kind of attitude.

Dude, you are such a troll. There would indeed be succession war after succession war if the Clans did not show up, the effect of which wouldbe that the IS would not get along better - you can concede that. Also, if there was no immediate threat of the Great Houses developing better tech than the next guy over the ensuing 20-30 years, then tech development would be relatively stagnant - I am sure that you can concede THAT as well.

Your personal opinions about the Clans concern me not, mostly because you make it plain that you do not understand the Clans in BT milieu. And, I am sure your tears are delicious, all the same. When I play any mecha game, I pilot what I can get, not necessarily what I want. If I win yea, if I lose, yea, I got to play for a little bit.

I will lay odds that you prefer NHUA and try to get the biggest mech to pilot. ("Having some lostech would be fine") I do not care what tech is available, I just want an enjoyable game to play. If you read some of the other Clan threads, you will find that few if any Clan-oriented players are all about the tech. Please, read some of the other threads about the Clans. I hope it will change your narrow point of view.

Was not Private Dancer a Tina Turner song? I know Yellow Dancer was a primary character in "Genesis Climber: Mospeda" the anime that got turned into "The New Generation". But I digress.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 16 March 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[stabwest]

What if there is no cake? And you found out that, the whole time you were working so hard for the goal of getting the cake, you were being lied to?

[Gremlich Johns]

stabwest, on 16 March 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

What if there is no cake? And you found out that, the whole time you were working so hard for the goal of getting the cake, you were being lied to?

Ahhh, what if I am lactose intolerant and the cake has been said to be made with dairy products (a usual circumstance) - I would avoid said cake for fear of the intestinal distress it would bring me.

I am more interested in the outcome (MWO) than the icing (Clan techa)

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 16 March 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Prosperity Park]

Petroff Northrup, on 12 March 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

A weird thought i had, what if they go AU with this game and the clans never show up in-game?

What if Clan Jade Falcon had inherited the Kerensky namesake instead of Clan Wolf...?

That'd mix things up a bit.

[Moenrg]

Jack Gammel, on 16 March 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

You are right that ComStar is anything but neutral, but let's be fair about Operation Scorpion. Myndo Waterly was insane, and she planned Operation Scorpion without the knowledge of many high level members of ComStar.

I agree she she planned Operation Scorpion pretty much in a vacuum. But what I keep getting from Warrior Coupe is that the rest of Comstar doesn't disagree with her, just some of her conclusions. Not once does any of the Precentors step up and mention, "We are neutral, we shouldn't involve ourselves with the fourth Succession War." Instead they tell her to create the fake holovid so they have a reason to interdict the Federated Suns. During Myndo's speach about Hanse (where she compares him to Kerensky), they all agree that Comstar needs to stop the Federated Suns, not to make peace or save lives, but because they are winning, and this would move the IS away from Blake's vision and teachings.

Comstar might differ in their application of Blake's teachings, but they all agree with them. Some great quotes;

"Myndo shook her golden hair back from the shoulders of her red silk robe. "Blake said wars
would fragment the Successor States. Then, and only then, would ComStar rise up to lead
mankind to its true pinnacle. Hanse Davion's war has swallowed half the Capellan
Confederation. It does not divide. It unites!""

"Ulthan Everson rose to her challenge. "Have you forgotten, Myndo Waterly, that the holovid of
a raid on our installation that you manufactured uses a location that appears to be the
substation in the Weng-chu Prefecture of Santa's Gold Coast? Davion's troops have not pacified
that area yet. How can we base our Interdiction on so transparent a piece of fakery?""

"She kept her voice soft, yet full of urgency. "That's right, my friends. The Word of
Blake is full of directives on how we may blunt the advances and drives of nations and
nationalism. Jerome Blake, in his wisdom, tells us how to manipulate economies and the
demands of the populace for material goods. He points out to us the tools that can turn a
minor, local protest into a cause that can unite worlds, and he has instructed us in ways to
smother revolutions that work counter to our goal."
Her eyes glowed with the light of inspiration. "Jerome Blake foresaw everything we would face
in pursuing the mission he laid out for us. He equipped us to deflect empires and turn nations in
on themselves. He taught us to hobble that which did not conform to his ideals. He molded us
in such a way that we are able to defeat all threats he foresaw, but Hanse Davion is outside
anything in Jerome Blake's experience.""

Ironically enough, none of the Precentors disagreed with her or even questioned her sanity. Comstar is the enemy of civilization and thus man. With no clans, eventually one would hope we'd figure this out. Sadly we don't seem like we'll be able to kill them yet....

[Gigaton]

Loss of contact with Oberon Confederation (fluff wise, one of the first hints of clan advance) has already featured in ISN News Flash.

[LordDeathStrike]

theory.

the clans come out next year as a godly npc enemy (thus theres no need to enforce clans playstyle of dieing instead of ejecting, trials of position and all that).

merc units are hired to fight other inner sphere people all the time for pvp, we band together to kill clan npcs, then as a year or 2 progresses and we find the star league data and clan tech gets looked at, we even the playing field with the test tube ********, we get tech on their level and out number them 100 to 1.

now you allow clan merc unit play, is players to use clan tech, and its even stevens tech wise, maybe 3 lances of 4 is vs 2 5 man clan stars as has been suggested. otherwise it would be a nightmare to try and nerf clans/buff IS to a fair fight scenario, reboot or not.

[CCC Dober]

Funny thing is the deafening silence from the tops whenever Clans pop up on the topic radar. If somebody has anything resembling solid information in that regard, please share.

Given the general lack of information (from my point of view) and blatantly overriding Clan Mechs in polls does not look reassuring to me either.

Examples:

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1
http://mwomercs.com/...ed-70-ton-mech/


What the hell is going on here?

I just came from another game called WoT where the devs are currently completely screwing over the US line of tanks, after 'promising' to fix them for one year. As a result I am very sensitive when information is withheld or sketchy at best and implications are all you can work with. I'm already beginning to feel cheated before MWO even launches :/

Edited by CCC_Dober, 17 March 2012 - 03:32 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

I can't see any reason why the devs should concern themselves with clan-related topics at the moment. When the game goes live its still IS vs IS, with several months to go before any Clanner sets a foot on Inner Sphere soil.

[Gigaton]

Dober, since the game currently follows RL real time = BT real time, Clans are not likely to be in in any form before before March 2013 (or March 3050 in BT).

Those polls are there to see what IS 'mechs people would like for the initial release, as Clans are naturally out. I don't see any reason to feel cheated unless somebody announced that "Clans will be in for release!".

I can understand if you feel left out if you are hardcore Clan fan though...

Edited by Gigaton, 17 March 2012 - 04:18 AM.

[Shredhead]

Just some speculations about implementing clans:
They could split the game into two different realms (IS and Clans) with lots of internal PvP arenas and make an additional PvP arena (the clan front). This way players can fight "fair" battles in their own tech class and have the opportunity to salvage some clan tech on the actual front. In this case there's no need of implementing bots or something like this. I'd guess we will have no great influence while fluff is moving on, but I hope in the end I'll be able to fight in the battle for Tukayyid (and other battles from the books), just to see the clanners run with their tails between the legs.
This way clanners can too have a completely different atmosphere in the gameplay and can roleplay clan behaviour, while in the IS you can have all the "dirty stuff" like Solaris fights, mercenaries with oddly painted mechs and house wars.
As for the balancing issue:
Clanners have "stars", while IS fight in "lances". That makes a full fight 10 to 12, if Devs want to.

[CCC Dober]

@Gigaton

Perfectly reasonable, but consider this: Clan Mechs and Clan tech has thrown balance in all past titles and if that is happening again here because it wasn't part of the initial concept ... How is that not my father's MechWarrior?

Assuming that Clans are part of the concept, then we could surely get more than scraps of information? Clans are no small part of MechWarrior and basically around the corner given the original timeline. I just don't see that happening, given the visible information and efforts. In fact nothing I have seen so far proves that Clans are even part of the final game. Hopes, dreams and wishes at best.