39 replies to this topic

[SHORTZ]

So initially when i saw that MW:O had brought back the red, green and blue lasers that i loved so much in Mechwarrior 3 i was absolutely thrilled. Because for me, that is the definitive mechwarrior feel for energy weapons. However, i was then confused about how the small lasers were red and the heavy lasers were blue, as they were obviously reversed in MW3, and so it took me a little while to stop freaking out about getting hit by masses of red lasers fired from jenners and other light mechs (Which seemed highly unlikely at the time)

So basically i was wondering why it is that the lasers are the particular colours they are in Online as opposed to older mechwarrior titles, and why it is they would completely reverse the colours for small and large lasers and yet keep the medium laser as its familiar green. Yesterday i worked it out, thanks to my very observant friend Weston. Lasers supposedly being concentrated beams of light, he pointed out that red light being at one end of the spectrum, blue light at the other and green roughly somewhere in the middle, the wavelengths and frequencies of the particular colours of light would directly correspond to the strength of the laser. For the red lasers, having the lower frequency and longer wavelength would mean that they would be less damaging than the higher frequency and shorter wavelength of the blue large laser. To me that makes perfect sense.

Not particularly useful in any respect i just thought it was interesting hope someone else does too

[Damion Sparhawk]

simply put? we know more now about lasers and how they work than they did back in the day, a red beam is the lowest spectrum of laser, retains it's energy for the shortest distance, a blue laser respectively is the tightest frequency of visible light, a violet laser would be tighter still and would retain it's energy for an even greater distance, green respectively is intermediate between red and blue, as would be yellow and orange, however those would be more difficult to distinguish from red, especially under certain lighting conditions. Also, it's more difficult to make a laser of the higher frequency spectrum thus a smaller cheaper weapon would be more likely to be red than a higher dollar weapon like a medium or large laser. Sometimes it comes down to economics though the former reason is possible as well ^.^ Truthfully it really wouldn't matter what color the laser is each level of the spectrum has it's pluses and minuses so the only tactical reason would be differentiation in the field... would be kinda amusing to be able to buy a blue small laser for a few c-bills more and make some people do a double take XD

[ValdnadHartagga]

Nice observation!

The laser color assignments also harken back to MW2, where the same system of red=small, green=medium, and blue=large was used. MW4 had a whole different system, where red indicated IS tech no matter the size or type, green lasers were always Clan tech, and blue ones were exclusively X-Pulse lasers - the only way to tell the class of laser was by sound and size of the laser beams., though it does seem to keep with the RGB hierarchy (if X-Pulse lasers could be considered the pinnacle of 3060s laser tech).

[SHORTZ]

Damion Sparhawk, on 05 October 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

simply put? we know more now about lasers and how they work than they did back in the day, a red beam is the lowest spectrum of laser, retains it's energy for the shortest distance, a blue laser respectively is the tightest frequency of visible light, a violet laser would be tighter still and would retain it's energy for an even greater distance, green respectively is intermediate between red and blue, as would be yellow and orange, however those would be more difficult to distinguish from red, especially under certain lighting conditions. Also, it's more difficult to make a laser of the higher frequency spectrum thus a smaller cheaper weapon would be more likely to be red than a higher dollar weapon like a medium or large laser. Sometimes it comes down to economics though the former reason is possible as well ^.^ Truthfully it really wouldn't matter what color the laser is each level of the spectrum has it's pluses and minuses so the only tactical reason would be differentiation in the field... would be kinda amusing to be able to buy a blue small laser for a few c-bills more and make some people do a double take XD

Thanks for the input Sparhawk, i did put mine rather simply yours was a much better explanation and makes a lot more sense. I'm quite happy about it, i feel it adds a little bit of realism to the fiction, as opposed to MW4's lasers. I found having faction specific colours almost a bit ridiculous. Part of the reason i much preferred 3 to 4. But yeah i think its a nice touch

[Damion Sparhawk]

well, faction specific lasers make a small amount of sense too, if you know everyone firing red lasers is the bad guys, and everyone firing the blue lasers is the good guys, it helps a lot in determining who to shoot at, however, if one of the bad guys picks up your blue laser and starts shooting your teammates well... that's why it's NOT such a good idea

[Noth]

The colors actually pertain tto the energy level of light. Red light is very low energy, Green is higher and blue is even higher.

[EDMW CSN]

The laser system is exactly reminiscent of MW2 and MW2: Mercs.
This is fitting because MWO takes at the same time frame of MW2: Mercs.

And from a tech standpoint, red is low energy intensity, green is higher and blue is very high.

[Wrecket]

Yet for industrial lasers, the type used to cut steel, it is infra red. which is not visible and is a longer wavelength then red, go figure.

[Pisces Proxima]

Wrecket, on 06 October 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Yet for industrial lasers, the type used to cut steel, it is infra red. which is not visible and is a longer wavelength then red, go figure.

Except for the fact that those industrial lasers are not cutting steel at 90+ meters from the focusing lens. And said steel are only thin sheets of steel, not thick plates that would be used as protection. So there's that. But now we have a basis for the clan's Micro Lasers!

[Damion Sparhawk]

Wrecket, on 06 October 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Yet for industrial lasers, the type used to cut steel, it is infra red. which is not visible and is a longer wavelength then red, go figure.

red light can carry more energy more efficiently but for a shorter distance, so a cutting torch will often be red, or infra red, because you're only travelling a few inches from beam to target, if that. Blue light on the other hand takes more energy to generate the same amount of heat, but will travel farther with less loss. Keep in mind however that a lot of this is still theoretical because apart from a few cutting lasers and whatnot there are few lasers actually designed to generate heat on a target to any great distance because of the amount of energy required to do so, one of the reasons why most mechs are supposed to operate on fusion reactors ^.^

Edited by Damion Sparhawk, 06 October 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[Damion Sparhawk]

closest thing I can find is the ADS (active denial system) which uses microwave frequency to generate heat over a target area, basically a hyper focused radar beam (you can quite literally cook a goose just outside the feedhorn on a radar ^.^) Ironically proving nothing since microwaves are lower frequency than infra red (however the ADS is not a 'laser' so it doesn't actually fall into the same category) microwave lasers (masers) appear be somewhat difficult to make, along with ultraviolet and x-ray lasers (x-ray's pass through mirrors, lol)

[Lege]

I'd rather use lasers out of the visible spectrum, so they wouldn't see where they are coming from.

[Bigchunk1]

Yep ultraviolet light is a higher frequency and would be more damaging, probably also longer range with its ability to maintain stability for a longer duration through the air.

The real truth about lasers is disturbing though. A true weaponised laser would be so high on the electromagnetic spectrum that it would not be visable. An X-ray, or a medical laser for instance, both are non-visable beams of heat. The mars rover currently is using invisable lasers to dig. The anti-missile lasers the military is experimenting with are invisable. The problem being that invisable lasers would totally suck in a game.

Last point, remember the supernova from MW3? I loved that thing. I would load it up with so many large lasers that Alpha-Striking meant instant self destruct! That was always quite amusing.

[Renthrak]

Honestly, the color reversal of small and large lasers was just about the only thing I didn't like about MechWarrior 3.

[Damion Sparhawk]

Bigchunk1, on 06 October 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

Yep ultraviolet light is a higher frequency and would be more damaging, probably also longer range with its ability to maintain stability for a longer duration through the air.

The real truth about lasers is disturbing though. A true weaponised laser would be so high on the electromagnetic spectrum that it would not be visable. An X-ray, or a medical laser for instance, both are non-visable beams of heat. The mars rover currently is using invisable lasers to dig. The anti-missile lasers the military is experimenting with are invisable. The problem being that invisable lasers would totally suck in a game.

Last point, remember the supernova from MW3? I loved that thing. I would load it up with so many large lasers that Alpha-Striking meant instant self destruct! That was always quite amusing.

UV lasers would be awesome but x-ray lasers are a bit more complicated, x-rays don't reflect off mirrors which is one of the critical steps in generating a laser (without making it massive), most medical lasers and such are using IR lasers for reasons stated above, masers are also possible (microwave lasers) however they have their own unique complications, the primary advantage to visible light is it's ability to be easily focused reflected and refracted.

[Banshee Bullet]

Damion Sparhawk, on 05 October 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

simply put? we know more now about lasers and how they work than they did back in the day, a red beam is the lowest spectrum of laser, retains it's energy for the shortest distance, a blue laser respectively is the tightest frequency of visible light, a violet laser would be tighter still and would retain it's energy for an even greater distance, green respectively is intermediate between red and blue, as would be yellow and orange, however those would be more difficult to distinguish from red, especially under certain lighting conditions. Also, it's more difficult to make a laser of the higher frequency spectrum thus a smaller cheaper weapon would be more likely to be red than a higher dollar weapon like a medium or large laser. Sometimes it comes down to economics though the former reason is possible as well ^.^ Truthfully it really wouldn't matter what color the laser is each level of the spectrum has it's pluses and minuses so the only tactical reason would be differentiation in the field... would be kinda amusing to be able to buy a blue small laser for a few c-bills more and make some people do a double take XD

Eh...
We've know that much about lasers for quite a while. We're just better at making them now.
Also I'm doubtful that's the reasoning the devs used but who knows, you could be right.

I really like the idea of paying a little extra to get a different color laser in the same size to throw people off. That would be awesome.

[William Rahn]

Bigchunk1, on 06 October 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

The real truth about lasers is disturbing though. A true weaponised laser would be so high on the electromagnetic spectrum that it would not be visable. An X-ray, or a medical laser for instance, both are non-visable beams of heat. The mars rover currently is using invisable lasers to dig. The anti-missile lasers the military is experimenting with are invisable. The problem being that invisable lasers would totally suck in a game.

That wouldn't work too well - many things (like air) absorb at lower wavelengths. The UV region below 200 nm is called vacuum UV because of that (you need to work in vacuum to use it effectively). Even lower wavelengths aren't absorbed all that much but we don't know how to properly focus them (yet) - carrying a synchrotron doesn't seem to be the best solution...

Edited by William Rahn, 07 October 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[Damion Sparhawk]

Banshee Bullet, on 07 October 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

Eh...
We've know that much about lasers for quite a while. We're just better at making them now.
Also I'm doubtful that's the reasoning the devs used but who knows, you could be right.

I really like the idea of paying a little extra to get a different color laser in the same size to throw people off. That would be awesome.

there's a difference between 'knowing' and -knowing-, and yeah, this game is thirty years old, it's possible they might've known when they made it, but it's also just as likely they were just throwing it out there because 'it's cool' either way it's always nice to have a real world rational for sci fi even if it's all fluff in the end XD (and yeah, I think it'd be cool to be able to add color options for lasers, maybe a red lens on your LL's to make them appear purple, without actually having to go through the additional steps to make a purple laser )

[Banshee Bullet]

Yeah, I'm bettin the choice was based on the cool factor.
btw, first laser built in 1957, theory well before. LAZER

[Kyossed]

Damion Sparhawk, on 07 October 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

I think it'd be cool to be able to add color options for lasers, maybe a red lens on your LL's to make them appear purple)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't adding a red filter to your lasers just block the shot until the laser burned the filter out? The reason we can color a white visible light with different filters is that those colors are already contained in the beam, and the filter simply blocks out the colors you don't want to get through. With a blue laser, however, you're only broadcasting a specific wavelength that does not contain any red to begin with. You'd have to modulate the wavelength to get violet. Or maybe fire a small laser at the same time through the same emitter.

okay now I have to try something in the mechlab.