97 replies to this topic

[wwiiogre]

I hope they allow retreating and then split the mech who ran away's xp and cbills with the remaining players. Since they did complete the mission and it was worth x amount each, if only 8 of 12 stayed or died trying to stay then they split the spoils. Just saying not getting your cake and trying to scam the system should always be awarded with showing the person what they didn't get.

I can hear the whiners saying but I lost connection, so you didn't finish the mission. You should get whatever xp you amassed while playing before losing connection. You should get no cbills. Your mech should be in the exact condition it was in when you lost connection, disconnected, rage quit, pulled the plug. I for one will have this problem but since it is on my side and is not the Dev's fault, why should I be rewarded or somehow be allowed to milk the system. The Dev's have already said you need to finish the mission and if you disconnect you don't get the goodies. So even if I die, I will stay logged on until the mission is over. Period. Don't care if it takes twenty minutes or an hour. I have books I can read while I wait.

Retreating is normal, just make sure you don't reward it. Fighting to the death in a lost cause is abnormal and most sane people will not do this. Especially if its just a job. Meaning they have no stake in the fight. I was hired to go guard a store. A whole gang of 40 people with weapons robbed the store. I get paid minimum wage, I am not taking a bullet and fighting to the last in a lost cause. It just doesn't happen. Now if it was my store, or my families store. You can bet I will go down swinging and taking many others with me. Unless of course I have really good insurance and I know my life or anyone elses isn't in danger. Then I just give them what I want and start filling out the paper work. Probably buy a timelocked safe so I won't lose more money next time. Its the price of doing business.So to expect everyone playing a game to be die hard fanatical fight to the death soldiers is foolhardy. Especially if they might be punished by having to pay a higher repair bill. How this will play out in pug matches I don't know. I am going to be with my team. But if my team is short and I can't drop with them I am hopefully gonna make enough contacts to jump in as a ride along in other merc units working for the same people we are or the same kind of contracts. I hope to be playing almost every day when I can. So I am sure I will be doing lots of different matches and with lots of different people. I prefer to play with friends or teammates. but you know in the end I just want to play.

chris

[Dragorath]

Of course retreat is an legitimate option, if it is commanded that way or you are the last two players agauínst an overwhelming enemy or so, BUT not when you "retreat" right at the beginning for no reason or without real need. In this case you are just a coward or traitor and you should be punished!
Depending on the mission and capabilities you could play a hit and run tactics instead like guerilla. Even Grey Death Legion did it at the beginning :-)

Edited by Dragorath, 15 April 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[HeIIequin]

Just a random thought that somehow always escaped me ( I think people have alluded to this before), but you could probably control the 'ease' of retreating by simply placing the extraction zones in the right places.

1) What if the extraction zone for your team was hidden off the edge of the map, and only when the retreat order was formally given (through whatever mechanic) would the 'extraction' area of the map open up for players to move into. This would prevent people from camping the extraction, since the invisible border would prevent them. This would keep the cowardly campers closer to the battle. Only if the scenario specifically called for it would the extraction zone be available from the start of the match. So sure, some people might be hiding near the back, but nowhere so far away that they could run off so easily.

2) The extraction zones were not always located on the edges of the map, but actually forced players to extract to locations ranging from mild to jalapeno.

TLDR: Retreating shouldn't always be easy to pull off.

Edited by HeIIequin, 16 April 2012 - 09:10 AM.

[guardian wolf]

HeIIequin, on 16 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Just a random thought that somehow always escaped me ( I think people have alluded to this before), but you could probably control the 'ease' of retreating by simply placing the extraction zones in the right places.

1) What if the extraction zone for your team was hidden off the edge of the map, and only when the retreat order was formally given (through whatever mechanic) would the 'extraction' area of the map open up for players to move into. This would prevent people from camping the extraction, since the invisible border would prevent them. This would keep the cowardly campers closer to the battle. Only if the scenario specifically called for it would the extraction zone be available from the start of the match. So sure, some people might be hiding near the back, but nowhere so far away that they could run off so easily.

2) The extraction zones were not always located on the edges of the map, but actually forced players to extract to locations ranging from mild to jalapeno.

TLDR: Retreating shouldn't always be easy to pull off.

I agree with that retreats should never be easy to pull off, in fact while it seems like a good idea, I can see a retreat zone being a damn good option for ambush.

[Goldhawk]

guardian wolf, on 09 April 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

If this is implemented, I volunteer to stay behind to hold them off as long as possible, as me and Hell Fist (my new Atlas, this one's for you Blake) will hold the line as long as possible, God speed.

Blake's will be with you Hell Fist! Crush the infidels with your holy fire and strength! When on the battlefield, the commander should have the fortitude to judge the combat similar to a combat strategist. Hell, it almost sounds like there needs to be a tactical advisor that can take account of the overhead view, similar to Armored Core V. But when usually those missile mechs have been depleted of missiles, they should be folded into the close-assault squad so that they can still get some usage.

[Vultre9]

I get this sickening feeling in my stomach that this game will turn out to just be a shoot'um up with Mechs in Medium/Small sized maps. I obviously hope it wont be the case, but with the specs of battles im seeing and the game modes ive seen i feel this way.

[wwiiogre]

5 km by 5 km maps. If your mechs top speed is say 50 kph how long does it take for your Steiner/Lyran scout er Atlas to get across the map? And if a train left Chicago at 5 p.m. in other words the maps planned are huge as far as I can tell. So it would take that Atlas around 5 minutes to cross the 5km, now add in terrain and elevation oh and perhaps a battle or two and you now have a huge map you can't just zip across. Now take a Jenner that runs at 110kph and everything changes. That scout mech can run across the map in around 2.5 minutes. But that is the fastest mech shown so far and that would be straight line no elevation gains, note in clips they have shown going up an incline will slow down your mech the same as turning does. So Fastest mech crosses the map in 3 minutes or so and the slowest around 7 minutes. This is not a fps arcade shoot em up. This will be tactical combat and a sim of Mech Warrior/ Battletech.

chris

wow my math skills are shart today

Edited by wwiiogre, 18 April 2012 - 10:16 AM.

[Steel Talon]

retreat is always option, especialy when taking over planet takes more than 1 battle, your team can save critical resources & regroup for next raid.
Or when u run out of ammo & no resupply is avaible.

[HeIIequin]

steel talon, on 19 April 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

retreat is always option, especialy when taking over planet takes more than 1 battle, your team can save critical resources & regroup for next raid.
Or when u run out of ammo & no resupply is available.

Now that's an interesting scenario idea. You queue up for a special contract that can sometimes require multiple battles, with minimal to no resupply inbetween. You'd have to keep your mechs in somewhat fighting shape for the next phase of the contract. Next phase could be defending a location you just captured, moving on to blitz another location, or if your initial attack is failing, you can retreat and regroup with minimal repairs & rearms to try a second assault or something (or cut your losses and bug out, failing your contract).

Edited by HeIIequin, 19 April 2012 - 10:55 AM.

[wwiiogre]

I like that idea as well. Say a large Merc Corps takes a defend planet contract. We would I assume be defending vs. all comers. Meaning we might have to face wave after wave of battles. How PGI handles the between game battles or if or when they will string these together would indeed be a wonderful attempt at being more of a sim than a one off arcade shooter. I would have no problem with this. But not sure it fits in with what they are attempting or if it would be easy to code.

chris

[Karl Streiger]

What about forced withdraw...before the battle starts the force commander declares a condition when triggered you should fall back
Conditions could be:
- Big Al was shot down
- you get a single or two reactor hits
- some damage at the internal structure
- no or less ammunition for your main guns

On the other hand he could order a knife fight - fight till your reactor blows up

If you don't follow the order it is a act of insubordination and you have to pay a fine
A fall back doesn't means turn and run it could mean move backwards and deliver suppressing fire to keep haunting enemys at bay

[Belisarius1]

That's not needed. The commander of an actual team shouldn't need metagame excuses to keep his guys in order. Conversely in a pub, there's far too much risk of some moron getting the commander tag and then punishing players for ignoring crazy orders.

It doesn't add much, and once again encourages the wrong thing. Even aside from that, it relies on a very robust system for selecting a commander in pub games, which is really quite hard to do.

Edited by Belisarius†, 26 April 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Maybe order was the wrong word....lets name it condition.
For example the Dragoon condition feral - every not dragoon mech becomes a single warning to shut down - then they are killed.

So condition green means when you mech gets medium damage fall back
condition yellow you got a critical hit - fall back
condition red - till the last drop of blood

The condition are known before the battle starts maybe the force commander can turn once in the game the condition. Maybe from green to red when there is the chance to win the battle.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 April 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[Ronnoc Kerensky]

I think that perhaps the best idea I have seen on this board is the idea that people should have a retreat zone that can be fallen back to, i think this zone should have some caveats.

1. The only way to retreat is if a certain level of damage is achieved in combat

2. The zone only becomes active if the team has a majority vote to retreat, this would be done in real time in game in response to the amount of damage sufffered.

3. The retreat should have a timer so you have to defend your exit corridor for around 30 seconds and stay in that area for that time to be evaced.

[Triskin]

It would be better only if you have a unit of friends instead of a bunch of random people that play so wild that you can do anything and all they wanted to do was to run fire some missles then run back to the drop zone to get their xp.

This would only work if its your clan/unit had control of the battle as in 12 mechs then if you wanted to retreat would be a option not a bunch of random people as that would **** me off to no end..

[Honsau]

I don't want to give scrubs the chance to bug out. One or two Mechs go down and half the team will bail.

[ManDaisy]

ya can't force moral, if people are gonan bug out then drop with a unit you trust next time.

[Belisarius1]

...which is totally under your control in a pub.