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How is the Jenner JR7-K better then the JR7-D


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#1 mr dude guy

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:19 AM

I was looking at the -K before the reset and was unable to find ANY places besides initial equipment that is better then the -D. Am I missing something or is the K just a D with one less missile hard point?

#2 Mason Grimm

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:22 AM

Personally? I hate the K.

If you check MechSpecs.com you will see several Jenner builds, a few of them my own. I've dubbed my -K variants "Polished Turds" cause that's pretty much what the K Variant feels like.

#3 OriginalTibs

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:24 AM

K comes with ferro fibrous armor pre-installed. Ferro fibrous reduces the weight in exchange for reduced available space. Since the Jenner has plenty of space for its class this is a good deal.

#4 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:25 AM

No idea either. The hard points are worse than any other mech, and you don't have any real benefit from buying the variant other than having all the new gear - but you can install tha tin any Jenner.

Seems to me like an oversight. Maybe they could give it an extra hard point or something like that. Maybe 2 AMS slots, or 2 energy slots somewhere in the torso sections...

#5 Jad3d

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:26 AM

View PostRedHairDave, on 30 October 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

the atlas K is currently the best atlas, so i dont gow what mason is going on about.

what do you see lots of every match? lrm's...why is that, all trials seem to have them. so we are going to see alot, and i mean a lot, of lrm's.

what mech is the only mech with 2 ams? ATLAS K!!!

load it with 2 large lasers, and 2 medium lasers and a gauss, and 2, yes you heard right, 2 ams systems and 3-4 tons of ammo. you will have a good time.


Someone needs to re-read the OP

#6 Vactus

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:28 AM

As was stated earlier, the only good thing about the JR7-K is the FF that comes pre-installed. Otherwise it's a -D without the extra missile slot. Sad but true. I'll pick one up only so I can elite/master out my -D

#7 EDMW CSN

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:30 AM

View PostOriginalTibs, on 30 October 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

K comes with ferro fibrous armor pre-installed. Ferro fibrous reduces the weight in exchange for reduced available space. Since the Jenner has plenty of space for its class this is a good deal.


IIRC it comes with CASE as well no ?

#8 red devil2

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:30 AM

Take the J-D, 2x SPL, 2x SL, 2x SSRM2, FF, XL300, ES, some DHS, max the armour and you have the best jenner.

The K version loses a M HP, the weight can be reinvested improving the energy slots (MPL/ML) or upgrading the SSRM2 to a SRM4/6 (but you lose some punch against other lights).

#9 Elwood Blues

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:31 AM

JR7-K - The "QUICK! We need another Jenner variant!" mech. It's a D with one less missile slot. It includes FF but you can also add that to the D. Also, FF gives less of a benefit than Endo Steel so it gives you an expensive to repair space hog that gives you .6 tons in weight savings. It is a waste of cbills that jenner pilots are forced to buy.

#10 Myrenous

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:44 AM

Dont know much difference between the varients but i do know one thing, 99% of the jenner pilots out there rely on lag to survive. I cannot tell you how many times ive landed or atleast i thought ive landed direct hits on them little buggers and did no damage. Don't get me wrong their are plenty of jenner pilots that are skilled but lets be honest if they didnt lag so much they wouldnt live nearly as long as they do, I faced off against one today and the guy was bouncing all over the place .. talk about frustrating considering i ping the servers at 40 MS i dont think the problem is on my end. actually the jenner i faced was the one posted above 2spl 2 sl 2ssrm .. packs a mean punch.

i guess the worst is when they lag all over the place kill something big and then think they are the best pilot in the game bragging in open chat, altho i do sometimes shout out after i ninja kill an atlas from behind while hes not paying attention... the cicada is amazeballs!

#11 Synra

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:02 AM

The thing is, the Jenner K would make more sense if:

1 FF armor was more valuable.

2 Things like FF and Endosteel weren't a player choice.

If players didn't have the freedom to install or remove these things, and they were variant specific traits, then yes I could see something like the Jenner K being a more interesting option. I maintain the belief that battletech, in it's original design wasn't really intended for players to kitbash all the mechs as they see fit. There is a reason they put out so many books filled with different mechs and their loadouts. We were supposed to pick a mech, not make a mech.

Because MWO is one of those cases where we are given an extreme degree of customization over our mechs, problems like this one arise. We have been seeing it throughout beta. Why use a Jenner K when the D is clearly better? Why use 2 PPCs on a catapult K2 when 2x Gauss is more effective? Why have your Jenner running 110kph when you could have it running 140? Is any of this balanced? These are the kind of issues that pop up when people are allowed to rebuild their mechs, and it's something the devs will either ignore or try to fix as time goes on. We shall see.

#12 Vactus

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:08 AM

View PostSynra, on 30 October 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

The thing is, the Jenner K would make more sense if:

1 FF armor was more valuable.

2 Things like FF and Endosteel weren't a player choice.

If players didn't have the freedom to install or remove these things, and they were variant specific traits, then yes I could see something like the Jenner K being a more interesting option. I maintain the belief that battletech, in it's original design wasn't really intended for players to kitbash all the mechs as they see fit. There is a reason they put out so many books filled with different mechs and their loadouts. We were supposed to pick a mech, not make a mech.

Because MWO is one of those cases where we are given an extreme degree of customization over our mechs, problems like this one arise. We have been seeing it throughout beta. Why use a Jenner K when the D is clearly better? Why use 2 PPCs on a catapult K2 when 2x Gauss is more effective? Why have your Jenner running 110kph when you could have it running 140? Is any of this balanced? These are the kind of issues that pop up when people are allowed to rebuild their mechs, and it's something the devs will either ignore or try to fix as time goes on. We shall see.


Based on BattleTech and being BT are two very different things though. It would not be a MW game if we were all stuck with stock variants. I understand what you're saying and where you are coming from, but this isn't BT.

And as a shameless plug, Mechspecs has plenty of other useful specs than just Gauss Everything! :D

#13 Kyone Akashi

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:10 AM

View PostMyrenous, on 30 October 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Dont know much difference between the varients but i do know one thing, 99% of the jenner pilots out there rely on lag to survive. I cannot tell you how many times ive landed or atleast i thought ive landed direct hits on them little buggers and did no damage. Don't get me wrong their are plenty of jenner pilots that are skilled but lets be honest if they didnt lag so much they wouldnt live nearly as long as they do, I faced off against one today and the guy was bouncing all over the place .. talk about frustrating considering i ping the servers at 40 MS i dont think the problem is on my end. actually the jenner i faced was the one posted above 2spl 2 sl 2ssrm .. packs a mean punch.

i guess the worst is when they lag all over the place kill something big and then think they are the best pilot in the game bragging in open chat, altho i do sometimes shout out after i ninja kill an atlas from behind while hes not paying attention... the cicada is amazeballs!
How is this relevant to the topic at hand? Is there some rule I missed that has every thread about Jenners include at least one complaint about "lag shields"? Not dismissing the phenomena entirely, as I have seen a few of those high-speed + high latency Lights myself, but contrary to popular belief this issue would logically exist for any 'Mech reaching speeds of 120+ kph and not just Jenners, and the other pilot will have as much trouble hitting his or her target as you have hitting them. Lastly, I find it somewhat unfair that you are accusing each and every Jenner pilot of basically exploiting a connectivity flaw in combat. I can assure you, I get hit and killed often enough, but as per your statement this probably has to be because I am a really bad player who cannot even be saved by "lag shield"?

Or maybe you should just try piloting a Jenner by yourself and feel how it is on the other end. For some strange reason, I have little problem hunting down and killing other Jenners, or rather Lights in general, in spite of "lag shield".

Apologies, but considering I have seen such statements so many times by now, I just had to vent this.

As far as the actual topic of this thread is concerned, I suppose this is just a minor flaw in game design. It was decided that to achieve true mastery, all pilots need to be proficient in at least three variants of their chosen 'Mech rather than just the one they actually wish to pilot. However, the Jenner does not have many different variants - the only one that would actually sport different hardpoints as per the canon would be the Clans' Jenner-II with its missiles-only-loadout, but we will not see this variant for several months.

However, why, in comparison to the Jenner-D, one missile hardpoint was removed is a mystery to me as well, considering that the only change to its missile system should be the addition of CASE. Also, the developers have already demonstrated a certain degree of willingness to deviate from the canon by giving the Jenner-F six energy hardpoints. Keeping this in mind, one logical solution to actually make the K stand out as a unique design would be a further modification to the hardpoint numbers. For example, it could have 5 energy and 1 missile hardpoint as a sort of "crossover" between D and F.

As it stands right now, however, most Jenner pilots will probably buy the K solely because they are forced into this moneysink due to the skill system. My own Jenner-K ended up sporting the exact same loadout as my D, I just had to "grind" all the mech XP from start again, even though my character felt right at home with its capabilities. :P

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 30 October 2012 - 07:14 AM.


#14 buckX

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:32 AM

View PostKyone Akashi, on 30 October 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

However, why, in comparison to the Jenner-D, one missile hardpoint was removed is a mystery to me as well, considering that the only change to its missile system should be the addition of CASE. Also, the developers have already demonstrated a certain degree of willingness to deviate from the canon by giving the Jenner-F six energy hardpoints. Keeping this in mind, one logical solution to actually make the K stand out as a unique design would be a further modification to the hardpoint numbers. For example, it could have 5 energy and 1 missile hardpoint as a sort of "crossover" between D and F.


I think 5 and 1 would be a good way of handling it. Missing one missile slot isn't a total waste if you take an SRM 6, but even with SRMs, you can't get the same punch as 2xSRM4. A 5th energy hardpoint would allow some decent builds like 4ML/Tag/SRM6 for harassing heavies and assaults.

Alternately, they could move the one missile hardpoint into the side torso. The Jenner-K hero mech Samuli swapped out the SRM4 for an LRM15, which does not fit in the 2 crits the CT provides. The K would be equal or inferior for any SSRM/SRM builds, but would have an ability to take LRM15/20s that the other Jenners lack.

Edited by buckX, 30 October 2012 - 07:40 AM.


#15 Kyone Akashi

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:40 AM

View PostbuckX, on 30 October 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

A 5th energy hardpoint would allow some decent builds like 4ML/Tag/SRM6 for harassing heavies and assaults.
Exactly, I was thinking about TAG as well! ^_^

Even though I like the concept of TAG a lot, I only slotted one in my Jenner-F so far. Four medium lasers are rather hard to pass up on, whilst on the other hand I would only use as many on an F (or a K) anyhow due to overheat potential. (hai, I could switch to six small lasers, but I feel more multi-role this way)

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 30 October 2012 - 07:41 AM.


#16 Asakara

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:47 AM

The Jenner F has one module slot by default. The Jenner D has two. The Jenner K has three. All variants can unlock one more module slot via the pilot tree.

Therefore the one thing the Jenner K has going for it in my opinion is the most module slots of any Jenner.

#17 Kyone Akashi

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

Hmm, good call, that I did not notice. Whether this is actually enough to make up for the loss of hardpoints, on the other hand ... especially considering that modules need to be unlocked in the General Pilot skill tree first, too, and as such you will not hit the limit for quite some time. It does increase the K variant's value somewhat for a very advanced pilot, though.

#18 Red squirrel

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:44 AM

In general I think that the variants currently in game really play different and each has it's own flavor. Some might be more different than others and some allow for similar loadouts.

But only the Jenner 7K has just absolutely nothing to offer. I liked the idea of it becoming the Samuli Hero mech with the missle HP in the RT so you can equip LRM15/20 which the D variant can't.

TAG I find utterly useless until we finally get a toggle button (ON/OFF).

Finally I did not realize the K variant had 3 module slots. Maybe at some point this will be an advantage, but right now it is not. Also the FF is the most useless of all upgrades. I'd rather have ES and DHS.


References:

View PostSynra, on 30 October 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

The thing is, the Jenner K would make more sense if:

1 FF armor was more valuable.

2 Things like FF and Endosteel weren't a player choice.

If players didn't have the freedom to install or remove these things, and they were variant specific traits, then yes I could see something like the Jenner K being a more interesting option. I maintain the belief that battletech, in it's original design wasn't really intended for players to kitbash all the mechs as they see fit. There is a reason they put out so many books filled with different mechs and their loadouts. We were supposed to pick a mech, not make a mech.

Because MWO is one of those cases where we are given an extreme degree of customization over our mechs, problems like this one arise. We have been seeing it throughout beta. Why use a Jenner K when the D is clearly better? Why use 2 PPCs on a catapult K2 when 2x Gauss is more effective? Why have your Jenner running 110kph when you could have it running 140? Is any of this balanced? These are the kind of issues that pop up when people are allowed to rebuild their mechs, and it's something the devs will either ignore or try to fix as time goes on. We shall see.


View PostbuckX, on 30 October 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:


I think 5 and 1 would be a good way of handling it. Missing one missile slot isn't a total waste if you take an SRM 6, but even with SRMs, you can't get the same punch as 2xSRM4. A 5th energy hardpoint would allow some decent builds like 4ML/Tag/SRM6 for harassing heavies and assaults.

Alternately, they could move the one missile hardpoint into the side torso. The Jenner-K hero mech Samuli swapped out the SRM4 for an LRM15, which does not fit in the 2 crits the CT provides. The K would be equal or inferior for any SSRM/SRM builds, but would have an ability to take LRM15/20s that the other Jenners lack.


View PostAsakara, on 30 October 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

The Jenner F has one module slot by default. The Jenner D has two. The Jenner K has three. All variants can unlock one more module slot via the pilot tree.

Therefore the one thing the Jenner K has going for it in my opinion is the most module slots of any Jenner.


#19 TheBlackRabbit

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

I'm finding the Jenner K to be the variant that I use for cheese builds. I crammed 4 ER large lasers onto it once with no armour and used it as a sniper. It only worked well on river city and anywhere else the engine melted. Because it's limited to 1 missle slot I've thrown a LRM 10 on it and that works reasonable well.
I still hate piloting it and the only reason for using one is to get elite for the other varients.

#20 Icebound

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:45 PM

The K gains one more module slot at the expense of one missle slot. Maybe in the future if modules suddenly become amazing it will be useful, but for now it's pretty gimped.





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