zorak ramone, on 10 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:
Oh boy. Here we go.
Did you SERIOUSLY think I didn't know about the CBT build rules and the 10 free engine heat sinks?
So where does your math come in? Let me show it to you from your first post
The AC20 weighed 14 tons and generated 7 heat. 4xML weighed 4 tons and generated 12 heat. Assuming that you used heat sinks to make each heat-neutral, you need 22 tons for the AC20 (14 base + 7 HS + 1 ammo minimum), but only 16 tons for theMLs (4 MLs + 12 HS ).
Why are you adding an additional 7 heat sinks totaling 22 tons ?
AC/20 = 14 tons
Ammo = 2 tons (assuming 10 shots)
Total = 16 (heat neutral under 10 heat sinks)
Why are you adding an additional 12 heat sinks totaling 16 tons?
4 Medium lasers = 4 tons
Heat sinks = 2 tons
Total = 6 tons (heat neutral with 12 heat sinks)
Assuming the same mech for either selection of weapons, there is a 10 ton difference.
The mech wouldn't even over heat all all for the AC/20 with 10 heat sinks or with the 4 lasers with 2 extra heat sinks . This is assuming the same mech, stripped of armor, just comparing the "damage" and "heat values" of two different weapon's choice. The first 10 heat sinks, weigh nothing and infact a 1 ton or 52 ton engine gives the same freebie...so this leads to the conclusion you are over bloating the weight required to fit a 14 ton weapon with 2 tons of ammo per the 10 shots always shown in the 3025 TRO.
What point are you even trying to make?
You are bloating the numbers when trying to use weight as a justifying factor for your point by adding unnecessary heatsinks.
My point was that 4xMLs take up less tonnage than an AC20. Free engine HS doesn't change this. Observe!
-1xAC20 + 1xAmmo (minimum) + 10 engine HS = 15 tons and heat neutral (4 HS remaining)
-4xML + 6 HS + 10 engine HS = 10 tons and heat neutral (4 HS remaining)
So really, the free engine HS only make my point stronger! The 4xML do the same amount of damage and weigh much less (when accounting for HS to make it equal to the AC20). The whole point of that paragraph of the OP is that the onlyt hing that balances MLs relative to the AC20 is that the 4xMLs will hit in 4 different places.
Not really, they don't make a difference unless you are standardizng what mech it is. There is a difference of 16 tons vs 6 tons (AC/20 with 2 tons of ammo, 4 lasers with 2 extra heat sinks). What are you doing with the extra weight if going only lasers? Going to just leave it off the mech? You need a standard of what is carrying the weapons, other wise you are just saying OMG! LASERS ARE SO MUCH BETTER!!! Maybe on a light mech, but with extra weight available on an assualt...mount both the lasers and the AC/20!
And no, the PPC is not a better comparison. PPCs are weapons that hit out at 18 hexes instead of 9. Some of the weight and heat in the PPC is going towards the range. The AC 20 is a much better comparison because the AC 20 has the same range, and has the same damage as 4xML. Therefore the only variables are damage versus tonnage (accounting for heat neutrality).
So I guess ... what exactly were you trying to prove and thanks for proving my point even better ... ?
I am not comparing the damage of the weapon. I am comparing the heat generated vs the total weight when factoring in heat sinks on the Awesome. Which comes back to the point...what mech are you talking about for a standard? You are not proving much without factoring in some other things.
-why are you comparing something thats litterly a back up weapon system on an assault that may be the main weapon system on a medium mech?
-What are you doing with the extra weight when going with medium lasers?
If you go for lasers on an assualt mech, that extra weight that could of been used for an AC/20 goes where exactly? Yeah, your 22 and 16 tons sound kind of ridiculous without factoring in the 10 free heat sinks making it even less so.
What you need to do is
-standard mech the AC/20 or medium lasers is going on
-consider what to do with the extra weight
- AC/20 only mech would run cooler, but suffer ammo problems
- the 4x Med laser boat would run hotter or neutrol with extra weight available it can mount an extra weapon's
system giving more utility (like adding a long range weapon to the mech) and run even hotter unless you don't keep a careful eye on it. How many guys would not mount an extra weapon system on an Atlas if they ditched the AC/20 for 4 lasers, adding a few extra heat sinks, and probably still having 5-7 extra tons to work with; don't think anybody would just leave the weight and make the mech lighter if an extra SRM-6 with ammo couldn't be helpful (all you needed to do was watch your heat)
Then you can complain how the AC/20 might bust through one location in one shot but it can only do it 10 times where as the 4 lasers might get infinite shots but spread the damage all over the place, but it might be able to fire some other random long range weapon beyond 9 hexes. Oh wait, look...there are the trade offs - High alpha burst low heat neutrality with 1 weapon system limited shots or low damage spread all over the target with more utility (extra weapon's system)
with heat neutrality from 2 additional heat sinks (unless it fires that extra weapon system)