52 replies to this topic

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

But the thing is, the redesign is so radical that it should really just be considered its own 'mech (simply named the Hellhound instead of Conjurer). It is featured in an official release game, too which should warrant canon status. Also, the redesign Conjurer is simply referred to by both IS and Clan alike as just Hellhound, where as the older one was only referred to by Conjurer or Wolverine_IIC depending on what Clan.

[IceSerpent]

Oswin Aurelius, on 08 April 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Legs like that aren't really made for walking [...]

An ostrich would like to have a word with you...

[BulletProofPanda]

Is it me, or do alot of the mechs on Sarna look like a fecking Transformer in a pose? They need to get some updated pics on that site.

[Trogusaur]

IMO, if there was one thing MW4 did excessively well, it was redesign existing 'mechs. This one was an exception due to license over the original Wolverine IIC (no, Clan Wolverine did exist), but I say it trumps the original twice over. I guarantee some people are going to say, "This one's stupid because M$ made it". And my response:

Edited by Lord Trogus, 09 April 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Note that the major issue wasn't that the Wolverine IIC renamed Hellhound was unseen due to lawsuit, but rather voluntary omission due to the art not being made in-house. This has since been rectified.

Furthermore, the Wolverine II, predecessor to the Wolverine IIC, just got some new art. This is new as of Operation Klondike, catalyst produced, and there is no earthly reason that it couldn't be used.



[EDIT]
I guess I should note that the 50 ton Hellhound omnimech seen in MW4 is a really good looking design. I wish it got some facetime in TRO3067, and wish it would get retroactively added to the second or third flight omnis.

Edited by Thomas Hogarth, 09 April 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Outlaw]

Honestly the MW4 version seemed like Microsoft wanted to put in the Black Lanner but instead during some mix up it ended up getting designated Hellhound (Conjurer). The big thing you need to remember in canon is that the Hellhound was intended to be the Wolverine IIC but however due to the taboo status of referring anything to the likes of the Wolverines made them change the name overall. So if we go on that logic the MW4 version is WAY off the mark, and if you compare images of the Black Lanner to the MW4 Hellhound (Conjurer) you will see the similarities.

http://www.sarna.net...lack_Lanner.jpg

Edited by Outlaw, 09 April 2012 - 12:34 PM.

[Stormwolf]

Outlaw, on 09 April 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Honestly the MW4 version seemed like Microsoft wanted to put in the Black Lanner but instead during some mix up it ended up getting designated Hellhound (Conjurer). The big thing you need to remember in canon is that the Hellhound was intended to be the Wolverine IIC but however due to the taboo status of referring anything to the likes of the Wolverines made them change the name overall. So if we go on that logic the MW4 version is WAY off the mark, and if you compare images of the Black Lanner to the MW4 Hellhound (Conjurer) you will see the similarities.

http://www.sarna.net...lack_Lanner.jpg

Never thought about the Black Lanner comparison, good find.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Thomas Hogarth, on 09 April 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Note that the major issue wasn't that the Wolverine IIC renamed Hellhound was unseen due to lawsuit, but rather voluntary omission due to the art not being made in-house. This has since been rectified.

Furthermore, the Wolverine II, predecessor to the Wolverine IIC, just got some new art. This is new as of Operation Klondike, catalyst produced, and there is no earthly reason that it couldn't be used.



[EDIT]
I guess I should note that the 50 ton Hellhound omnimech seen in MW4 is a really good looking design. I wish it got some facetime in TRO3067, and wish it would get retroactively added to the second or third flight omnis.

I'd drive that... oh hell yes!

[Odins Reaver]

I originally thought it WAS a Lanner, but I do prefer it to what is in the battletech TRO.

[Fetladral]

ethnic minority, on 07 April 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Actually the hellhound redesign for mw4 wasn't the result of licencing issues but rather for the expediency of mw4 mercs' game development. I believe somewhere on the mektek forums, the redesign artist David White stated that they needed him to redesign the hellhound to fit a pre-existing animation bones/skeleton/whatever (probably the uziel). If you check out his other concepts, you can see that the hellhound went through an especially wild redesign phase.

The first one looks like a modified Storm Crow (Ryoken) The third looks like a heavily modified Hunchback. The 2nd looks pretty good though.

[Steinar Bergstol]

I really do not understand the hatred some people show towards humanoid shape mechs. It's probably because I started playing Battletech way before the clans arrived, but I _like_ the humanoid ones. Those are proper mechs to me. Yes, hands and all. And no, it has nothing to do with liking Gundam or not considering I've never seen an episode of Gundam in my life. To me the majority of mechs were always more or less humanoid in shape. That was part of the point. Big freakin' robots pounding the snot out of eachother with the occasional exotic looking chickenwalker or otherwise non-humanoid mech in the mix for variety (Marauder, Locust, Jenner, Scorpion, Goliath and so on).

And then came the clans. Suddenly a whole bunch of mechs start looking like someone took the nose section of some airplane and bolted a pair of legs and arms on them. Suddenly there were too many chickenwalkers for my taste. Suddenly there's a new generation of Battletech fans (which is good, really. More people is always a good thing for a game), and a lot of them poo-poo the good, old humanoid designs for "having hands". For "looking like Gundams". Completely ignoring where the game came from.

Well, congratulations to all of them for prefering those tanks and airplane nose sections someone glued arms and legs onto. Good for you, people. I'm glad you know what you like, and don't you let anyone tell you it's wrong. However, in the same spirit if you young 'uns insult my very much humanoid looking 3025 era Phoenix Hawk for being silly looking then we're going to have issues, junior! Issues, ya hear me? I'm not afraid of waving my cane in your general direction and tell you to get off my lawn, you whippersnappers!

As for the MW4 redesign... It's not a bad looking mech (for yet another clan chickenwalker), but a redesign should at the very least have _some_ similarity to the original concept so it's at least somewhat recognizable. What we have there are two completely different mechs, in my opinion. They may have the same stats and loadouts, but they're still two completely different machines.

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 09 April 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[Maxxinator]

Fetladral, on 09 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

The 2nd looks pretty good though.

Yeah, for a heavy or assault. It certainly doesn't look like a medium.

[Maxxinator]

Steinar Bergstol, on 09 April 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Suddenly there's a new generation of Battletech fans (which is good, really. More people is always a good thing for a game), and a lot of them poo-poo the good, old humanoid designs for "having hands". For "looking like Gundams". Completely ignoring where the game came from.

That's me. I hate most humanoid mechs for that reason. I wish the "Gundams" would leave. But if I have my way, you get the finger. I just decided to not use those mechs and ignore them. They don't have to go all because I don't like them. They should stay for people who like that sort of thing. You were here first, so why kick you out?

Edited by Maxxinator, 09 April 2012 - 04:03 PM.

[Fetladral]

Actually I am suprised theres no direct ripoff of any of the "gundam" mobile suits in the early stuff. At least of what I saw. I think the chicken walkers are more battlefield useful and the humanoid ones have more of a multi role use. Plus the humanoid ones look more intimidating to me.

[Belial]

Fetladral, on 09 April 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

Actually I am suprised theres no direct ripoff of any of the "gundam" mobile suits in the early stuff. At least of what I saw. I think the chicken walkers are more battlefield useful and the humanoid ones have more of a multi role use. Plus the humanoid ones look more intimidating to me.

Actually, there was one that managed to slip by. The Horned Owl is a ripoff of the Zaku, but almost no one remembers it (I think I'm the first one on these forums to even mention its name).

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Horned_Owl

Edit: image didn't work so I just linked to the page.

Edited by Belial, 09 April 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Sug]

Catharsis, on 08 April 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Well actually most animals have them I would think. Horses, dogs, cats, rabbits; all of their rearlegs are reverse jointed.

/nitpick

not really reverse jointed. It's like if you walked around on your tiptoes. The bones are different lengths but the joints are the same.

Plantigrade, digitigrade, unguligrade, etc.

[Catharsis]

Sug, on 09 April 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

/nitpick

not really reverse jointed. It's like if you walked around on your tiptoes. The bones are different lengths but the joints are the same.

Plantigrade, digitigrade, unguligrade, etc.

Hmm I did not know that. But yeah, looking at the way my toes bend, that makes sense. And that is why I am more of a physics person, rather than biology

[Uncle Totty]

Belial, on 09 April 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Actually, there was one that managed to slip by. The Horned Owl is a ripoff of the Zaku, but almost no one remembers it (I think I'm the first one on these forums to even mention its name).

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Horned_Owl

Edit: image didn't work so I just linked to the page.

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HOLY ****!!! D8

[guardian wolf]

I personally liked the HellHound redesign, as for the last comment, ummm... I'm going to go and hide my Warhammer now, oh wait, that's right, what's Harmony Gold gonna do against my REAL WARHAMMER?!?!?! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA, BURN HARMONY BURN.

[Maxxinator]

Hellhound (Conjurer)
Jade Falcon Hellhound
In reality, they're the same 'Mech, but MW4 gave me two mechs, and a new love for Jade Falcon