Please do not try to balance Clan tech, and here's why...
#1
Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:07 AM
The point is, Balancing Clan weaponry just feels... wrong. The Clans were ungodly powerful. But there is a way to balance the Clans, a way that was exploited in canon and that's this: The Clans hate teamwork. They're all about the individual honor, the ways of Trials, Zellbrigen, etc. Yes they were divided into units, but Clan battles are usually one-on-one or one-on- as many as they can take out. Give Clan MechWarriors penalties for utilizing teamwork. Kill steals decreases honor and might make you a target to both friend and foe. Force the Clans to fight individually. Give no rewards or bonuses that rely on their teammates. That way, they'll need all the advanced tech just to stay alive, because lets face it, nothing can survive an onslaught of an entire company working together to bring down two Stars.
Is my idea completely and totally well thought out? Well, not really, no. And I'm sure that there are other topics saying the same thing, but it's 3 in the godd***ed morning, and I'm too lazy to look for them right now. However, my idea keeps with canon and satisfies both parties on either side of the fence. Anyways, if you have any better suggestions, please let me know.
#2
Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:17 AM
#3
Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:26 AM
Teamwork isn't as common as you seem to believe.
#4
Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:48 AM
Edited by MajorLeeHung, 08 April 2012 - 12:49 AM.
#5
Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:33 AM
Connor Macleod, on 08 April 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:
The point is, Balancing Clan weaponry just feels... wrong. The Clans were ungodly powerful. But there is a way to balance the Clans, a way that was exploited in canon and that's this: The Clans hate teamwork. They're all about the individual honor, the ways of Trials, Zellbrigen, etc. Yes they were divided into units, but Clan battles are usually one-on-one or one-on- as many as they can take out. Give Clan MechWarriors penalties for utilizing teamwork. Kill steals decreases honor and might make you a target to both friend and foe. Force the Clans to fight individually. Give no rewards or bonuses that rely on their teammates. That way, they'll need all the advanced tech just to stay alive, because lets face it, nothing can survive an onslaught of an entire company working together to bring down two Stars.
Is my idea completely and totally well thought out? Well, not really, no. And I'm sure that there are other topics saying the same thing, but it's 3 in the godd***ed morning, and I'm too lazy to look for them right now. However, my idea keeps with canon and satisfies both parties on either side of the fence. Anyways, if you have any better suggestions, please let me know.
its not the clan weaponry itself thats the issue, sure 20%-40% greater range is nice, but not insurmountable. what ***** us over, is the fact that clan omnimechs can carry 2x the weapons effectively giveing them 2x our firepower with 20-40% range increase, while having 2-3x stronger armor with ferro fiberous, and being faster at the same time.
we dont need to nerf clan er weapons, we just need to give IS the same access to tech at the same time clans come into the game. keep the field even without messing with team sizes and all that, its a reboot after all, nothing says we cant discover the lostech and get on an even playing field as they come at us.
#6
Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:57 AM
#7
Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:32 AM
#8
Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:00 AM
LordDeathStrike, on 08 April 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:
its not the clan weaponry itself thats the issue, sure 20%-40% greater range is nice, but not insurmountable. what ***** us over, is the fact that clan omnimechs can carry 2x the weapons effectively giveing them 2x our firepower with 20-40% range increase, while having 2-3x stronger armor with ferro fiberous, and being faster at the same time.
we dont need to nerf clan er weapons, we just need to give IS the same access to tech at the same time clans come into the game. keep the field even without messing with team sizes and all that, its a reboot after all, nothing says we cant discover the lostech and get on an even playing field as they come at us.
I think that is a really bad suggestion since it would immediatly render IS tech obsolete.
There should be a numerical game gamebalance here like 5 vs 12 or a tonnage cap like 200 tons of Clan tech vs 300 ~ 390 IS tech.
Ofcourse a bidding system would greatly reduce tech abuse as well, I hope that the newbies are going to catch on quickly here.
Kay Allard Liao, on 08 April 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:
Downright abuse of Zellbrigen would result in a free for all, but most Clan warriors would still try to take down as many opponents as possible to rack up on honorpoints.
#9
Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:07 AM
#10
Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:30 AM
#11
Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:51 AM
Clans loathe melee, while some IS mechs where purposedly built around melee combat. In urban settings this would mean the longer range Clans have is not useful and the IS melee capabilities can be used at max.
#12
Posted 08 April 2012 - 04:58 AM
The Cheese, on 08 April 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:
Too true.
When I played some BF2 MP that forced players into "squads", I had thought that this concept alone would help force teamwork; but it did no such thing. Unless 4+ people are on voice comms, you're not going to see lances moving together. And it is THAT aspect which will help those moving as a pack pick off free roaming players one at a time.
#13
Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:13 AM
I don't understand why people HAVE to have their precious ER PPC... I truly enjoyed the 'old school' 3025 era tech that was all that existed in the original boxed BattleTech game.
#14
Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:06 AM
#15
Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:04 AM
But, what do we do later if we want to add that dramatic piece of Battletech history, into the game? What is wrong with using BV to balance the teams? If one side gets a very powerful clan mech then the other team gets the same BV in lesser units, or another clan mech. As long as both teams have the same BV isn't it as close to fair as we can expect?
Also, make clan tech expensive to buy and expensive to own.
#16
Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:21 AM
Edited by Geist Null, 08 April 2012 - 08:21 AM.
#17
Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:33 AM
Virgil Caine, on 10 January 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:
A few years ago, I would have been on board with you. But after playing Teamfortress 2 and seeing some of the requirements for achievements there, Clan Honour being coded into a game certainly isn't outside the realm of possibility. I'm not sure how familiar with the game you are (so these might not make any sense), but here are a few examples:
a) Heavy Achievement Soviet Block - While invulnerable and on defense, block an invulnerable enemy Heavy's movement.
b) Engie Achievement Frontier Justice - Have your sentry kill the enemy that just killed you within 10 seconds.
c) Spy Achievement Joint Operation - Sap an enemy Sentry Gun within 3 seconds of a teammate sapping another.
d) Medic Achievement Trauma Queen - Deploy 3 Ubercharges in less than 5 minutes, and assist in 5 kills during that time.
The complexity of achieving some of these Teamfortress milestones is definately on par with most, if not all Clan rules of engagement. I think it's doable.
Virgil Caine, on 10 January 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:
What Bryan Ekman (Owner/Creative Director of Piranha Games Inc) had to say:
One of the cool things about the Clans is, if you actually play-or RP-the Clans correctly, it actually creates a lot of artificial limits and a natural order of balance in the universe. That's one thing that we're looking at examining as part of MWO is in bringing in some of those restrictions that the Clans have as a part of their honour system to help balance out combat, and the fact that they have far superior weaponry than the Inner Sphere does.
One of the things is, since MechWarrior Online is all about 'carrots' (rewarding players for activities that they do well) if a player is a Clanner and he goes up against an Inner Sphere target, if through an in-game action says "I'm gunna challenge you, I'm gunna fight you one on one" and actually achieves that, we can reward him appropriately. Whereas, if he just picks random targets, destroys a bunch of people and maybe gangs up on people, he doesn't get rewarded as much.
Let's get the players to play optimally, the way we want them to play, and encourage behavior that we want them to do, and give them rewards for doing it that way, rather than just letting them do whatever, and rewarding them for that as well.
Edited by Bren, 08 April 2012 - 08:34 AM.
#18
Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:53 AM
As for balancing a Clan vs IS games, the best way is, again, team battle value. Having same battle value limit for both teams would mean either Clan team forced to have less players(as have been suggested above), or their mechs being of a lighter weight class(with IS fielding a bunch of heavies or even assaults, Clan team of similar number of players would be limited to mostly lights and mediums with only a couple of heavier mechs).
#19
Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:58 AM
Imagine you go 10 medium clan mechs vs 12 heavy and assault IS mechs you get a 1.0 multiplicator, if you go above you get between 0.8 and 0.4 multiplicator and if you bid lower, you can get a 1.2 to 2.5 multiplicator.
this way, you could get realy nice scores if you go against greater force with lower number and tonnage on your clan side.
if you win everytime because you fight with 12x 100 ton clan mechs, you get so low honor, its not realy a honorable victory. this would mean, there is no real benefit in winning if you do it the "easy and dishonorable way" !
that concept could even be used with other reward amounts for IS troops and mercs for lower drop costs, or something.
#20
Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:06 AM
Reno Blade, on 08 April 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:
StaggerCheck, on 08 April 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:
Connor Macleod, on 08 April 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:
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