71 replies to this topic

[Major Tom]

Another MechLab thread, however this time using information based on what we have learned about MechLab and customization from DevBlog 6 [http://mwomercs.com/...og-6-mechlab/].

What changes would you make to the existing mechs, while attempting to follow Hardpoint (guestimate), Jump Jet, Armor, Engine, and Heat Sinks?

Commando COM-2D

Spoiler

Base[97kph, no JJ, 10 HS, 4t armor, SRM6 + 1ammo, SRM4 + 1 ammo, md Laser]

Version 1
Upgrade Engine to 118 kph (+1.5t)
Replace SRM6 and ammo with SRM4 (no ammo, uses existing SRM4 supply) (-2t)
Add 0.5t of armor (+0.5t)
[118kph, no JJ, 10 HS, 4.5t armor, 2 SRM4 + 1 ammo, md Laser]

Version 2
Replace SRM6 and ammo with 2 SRM4 and 1t of ammo (+1t)
Remove Md laser (-1t)
[97kph, no JJ, 10 HS, 4t armor, 3 x SRM4 + 2 ammo]

Jenner JR7-D

Spoiler

Base [118 kph, 5 JJ, 10 HS, 4t armor, SRM4 + ammo, 4 Md Laser]

Version 1
Remove all weapons (4 md lasers, SRM4, ammo) (-7t)
Remove Jump Jets (-2.5t)
Downgrade Engine to 86 kph (-5t)
Add Lg Laser (RA) (+5t)
Add Lg Laser (LA) (+5t)
Add 2 Heat Sink (+2t)
Add 2.5t armor (6.5 ton total) (+2.5t)
[86 kph, no JJ, 12 HS, 6.5t armor, 2 lg laser]

Version 2
Replace 2 md laser (RA) with 1 Lg Laser (+3t)
Replace SRM4 and ammo with LRM5 and ammo (-0t)
Downgrade Engine to 97 kph (-3t)
Remove Jump Jets (-2.5t)
Add 2 heat sinks (+2t)
Add 0.5 armor (4.5t total) (+0.5t)
[97 kph, no JJ, 12 HS, 4.5t armor, Lg laser, 2 md laser, LRM5, 1t ammo]

Hunchback HBK-4G

Spoiler

Base [64 kph, no JJ, 13 HS, 10t armor, AC-20, 2t ammo, 2 md laser, sm laser]

Version 1
Upgrade Engine 86 kph (+4t)
Remove 3 heat sinks (-3t)
Remove sm laser (-0.5t)
Remove 0.5t armor (9.5t total) (-0.5t)
[86 kph, no JJ, 10 HS, 9.5t armor, AC-20, 2t ammo, 2 md laser]

Hunchback HBK-4P (swayback)

Spoiler

Base [64 kph, no JJ, 23 HS, 10t armor, 8 Md laser, 1 sm laser]

Version 1
Replace 5 md lasers (RT) with 1 PPC & 1 Lg Laser (+7t)
Remove 6 heat sinks (-6t)
Remove sm laser (-0.5t)
Remove 0.5t armor (9.5t total) (-0.5t)
[64 kph, no JJ, 17 HS, 9.5t armor, PPC, lg laser, 3 md laser]

Centurion CN9-A

Spoiler

Base [64 kph, no JJ, 10 HS, 8.5t armor, AC10, 2t ammo, LRM10, 2t ammo, 2 md laser]
* maybe trade 1t LRM ammo for 1t armor

Dragon DRG-1N

Spoiler

Base [86 kph, no JJ, 10 HS, 10t armor, AC5 2t ammo, LRM10 2t ammo, 2 md laser]
* This is almost identical to the Centurion except it is missing 3 hardpoint slots on the arm, making an autocannon upgrade unlikely (impossible), meaning there isn’t much that can be done with this mech.

Catapult CPLT-C1

Spoiler

Base [64 kph, 4 JJ, 15 HS, 10t armor, 2 LRM 15, 2 ammo, 4 md laser]
* Add 2 LRM ammo, Drop 2 HS

Awesome AWS-8Q

Spoiler

Base [54 kph, no JJ, 28 HS, 15t armor, 3 PPC, 1 sm laser]
(it is called AWESOME for a reason. But I think an urban Awesome could be useful)

Version 1
Replace PPC with Lg Laser and Md Lasser (RA) (-1t)
Replace PPC with Lg Laser and Md Lasser (RT) (-1t)
Replace PPC with Lg Laser and Md Lasser (LT) (-1t)
Replace sm laser with md laser (+0.5t)
Remove 0.5t armor (14.5t total) (-0.5t)
Add 3 heat sink (+3t)
[54 kph, no JJ, 31 HS, 14.5t armor, 3 lg laser, 4 md laser]

Atlas AS7-D

Spoiler

Base [54 kph, no JJ, 20HS, 19t armor, AC20, 2 ammo, LRM20, 2 ammo, SRM6, ammo, 4 md laser]

Version1
Replace AC20 with AC10 (-2t)
Replace 2 AC20 ammo with 2 AC10 ammo (0t)
Replace 2 md lasers (CT) with 1 Lg Laser (+3t)
Replace 1 SRM6 with LRM5 (-1t)
Replace 1 SRM6 ammo with 1 LRM6 ammo (0t)
[54 kph, no JJ, 20HS, 19t armor, AC10, 2 ammo, Lg Laser, LRM20, 2 ammo, LRM5, ammo, 2 md laser]

Edited by Major Tom, 10 April 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[pursang]

Psst - the Dragon, Catapult, and Atlas are hiding under the Centurion.

Edited by pursang, 10 April 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[Major Tom]

Thank you, one edit mistake cascaded into a spoiler embeded mess.

[Hawkeye 72]

This is hard to guess since we don't know the complete flexibility of the hardpoints per each chassis. I would drop the ac5 from the Dragon. For a 60 ton mech I feel like the Dragon doesn't pack much of a punch.

Really though, I just wanted to reply because Major Tom made his 69th post hahaha. Yes sometimes my mentality reduces to that of sixteen year old juvenile

[Orzorn]

Personally, and I've already done this in SSW, I would drop the AC/5 from the Dragon and pick up an AC/10 by dropping the LRM10 for an SRM6.

Hopefully the Dragon has the hard points to support the AC/10.

[Exilyth]

Hawkeye 72, on 10 April 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

I would drop the ac5 from the Dragon.

This. An Ac2 is much better in that place, the free'd up weight can go into more armor.

[Kudzu]

One of the best changes you can make to the Dragon is trading out the LRM-10 for an SRM-6 and using the saved weight to increase the armor. Depending on heat and ammo lasting, I might drop a ton of the (now) SRM ammo to add another heat sink or to completely max out the armor.

You now have a brawler that is tough, packs a punch, and uses it's speed to close the gap to make up for the lost long range firepower.

This same mod also works for the Grand Dragon (both 3025 and 3050 versions).

[Major Tom]

Orzorn, on 10 April 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Hopefully the Dragon has the hard points to support the AC/10.

That was my first thought, however the AC/5 is 4 Critical slots, the AC/10 is 7. Of course if you were able to make that change you basically have a Centurion. The idea of trading the LRM for an SRM definately give the mech more focus and some up close punch.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Dunno if anyone else agrees, but the way you list it makes it rather hard to follow.

Also, assuming that the Grand Dragon will also be in:
DRG-1G Upgrade:
Upgrade engine to XL (frees up 9½ tons).
Upgrade Heat Sinks to Double Strength (0 tons).
Remove LRM-10 and ammo (frees up another 7 tons).
Increase engine rating to 360 for a speed of 97.2km/h (costs 7 tons + 1 ton for the gyro).
Swap PPC for a Binary Laser Cannon (costs 2 tons).
Install a Guardian ECM Suite (costs 1½ tons).
Install a Supercharger and MASC (2 tons and 3 tons resp.). (Allows limited bursts of speed up to 162km/h.)
Change armour type to Ferro-Fibrous and increase protection by 19 points (weight saved by armour type spent on increased protection).

I would've given it endo-steel, but that isn't listed under the options.

And a JR7-F Jenner:
Upgrade engine to XL (frees up 6 tons).
Upgrade to DHS (0 tons).
Install 2 Jump Jets (costs 1 ton).
Swap 2 Medium Lasers for an ER Large Laser (costs 3 tons).
Upgrade remaining Medium Lasers to Pulse models (costs 2 tons).

Exilyth, on 10 April 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

This. An Ac2 is much better in that place, the free'd up weight can go into more armor.

Replacing the AC/5 with a PPC would be even better.

Edited by Alizabeth Aijou, 10 April 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Exilyth]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 10 April 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Replacing the AC/5 with a PPC would be even better.

That's what the Grand Dragon is for. Also, I'd guess removing the AC/5 would free ballistic hardpoints.

Edited by Exilyth, 10 April 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[Major Tom]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 10 April 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Dunno if anyone else agrees, but the way you list it makes it rather hard to follow.

I was trying to be space concious, then I realized I could use spoiler tags to condense the post. I'll try to clean it up a bit.

That should be a little clearer.

Edited by Major Tom, 10 April 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[William Petersen]

Behind the spoilers you will find colour-coded critical charts for each respective chassis/variant.

Pink - Heat Sink
Orange - Ammo
Teal - Jump Jet

Red - Energy Weapon
Green - Missile Weapon
Yellow - Ballistic Weapon

The first three are there mostly for pretties. I may have made a couple errors w.r.t. arm actuators, after the third one I was more or less working for speed. X_X

Maybe this will help folks start thinking about what they want to do. It's not comprehensive, since we don't know which all variants will be available, but it was kinda fun to make these, so here you go.


Commando COM-2D

Spoiler

Jenner JR7-D

Spoiler

Hunchback HBK-4G

Spoiler

Centurion CN9-A

Spoiler

Dragon DRG-1N

Spoiler

Catapult CPLT-C1

Spoiler

Awesome AWS-8Q

Spoiler

Atlas AS7-D

Spoiler

[Johannes Falkner]

So the real questions are:

How the mechlab will treat mostly empty crits in arms?
How are heatsinks treated? (Blocks or singles)
Can the engine be changed? (Note that we would not be limited to TT steps since speed can be continuous in the sim...)

[William Petersen]

Johannes Falkner, on 10 April 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

So the real questions are:

How the mechlab will treat mostly empty crits in arms?
How are heatsinks treated? (Blocks or singles)
Can the engine be changed? (Note that we would not be limited to TT steps since speed can be continuous in the sim...)

I'm not sure I understand. Like I said, the other coloured blocs (aside from weapons) are just there to be pretty and for visual aid.


From my understanding of the Dev Blog:

For the purposes of modification, the only critical restriction is for weapons. I.E. you can't put a PPC on a Mech where an MLas was, but you could replace a PPC with 3 MLas.

The pseudo expection is JJs, you can't mount those on a Mech without at least one varient which *can* mount them. I.E. no JJs on an Awesome, because there is no canon Awesome that uses JJs.

If you *wanted* to, you could strip out all the gear from a Jenner and fill the thing with heat sinks, heat sinks everywhere and any where. It wouldn't be a smart thing to do, but you could do it.

I did *not* glean anything about engine adjustment, so I can't speak to that.

Edited by William Petersen, 10 April 2012 - 11:02 PM.

[Johannes Falkner]

I have a hard time believing they will restrict the weapon hardpoints to 100% crit equality. If I remove a heatsink, say #11 on an Urbanmech, are they really going to prevent me from adding a medium laser to it? I could see restricting hard point size so that a base slot for medium lasers is limited to two crits (ie it will fit a large laser, but not a PPC) and similar things for ballistic weapons allowing for 1 size increases, otherwise there will be so few real customization options there will be no point. They could also add a couple of empty hardpoints for additional weapons.

[William Petersen]

Dev Blog w/ annotations by me said:

Each location on a BattleMech ... may include a number of hard points. The number of hard points in a given location is determined on a per variant basis, and is based on the weapons included in the variant’s default loadout. For example, a ’Mech that, by default, comes with 2 Medium Lasers and an Autocannon/2 in its Left Torso may actually have 3 energy weapon hard points and 2 ballistic hard points in that location. So, if the player is able to satisfy the weight and critical slot requirements, they could equip an additional energy weapon and ballistic weapon into that Left Torso, or swap out the Medium Lasers for other energy weapons, etc.

There seems to be a little bit of vagueness here, as they seem to indicate that hard points are irrelevant to critical locations here, but then in their weapon-swap example, the whole basis is by critical slot-swapping, though, on a second look, I notice that the rest of the chassis location is filled with endo steel (Endo Steel? O,o In 3049? This "McMech" must be pretty advanced).

I kinda think that making hard points and criticals independent of one another is a bit too lax, however, allowing additional weapon crit spaces that are not represented the default loadout of a particular variant* is a nice compromise, I think. And like I said, I know they're incomplete due to lack of specific information, but I figured someone still might appreciate them.


*For example, perhaps the CPLT-C1 could have an additional missile crit location in each of the arms so one could upgrade the LRM racks to LRM-20's, if he drops tonnage somewhere else.

[Johannes Falkner]

I would bet on hardpoints being a collection of crit slots. So you would see energy hardpoints with 1 crit, 2 crits, 3 crits and (eventually) 4 crits (for when you really need that Heavy PPC). Ballistic would vary from 1 to AC/20 size, etc.

[Pvt Dancer]

I will also point out that the big advantage to Balistics is the low amount of heat created. An AC 10 generates 3 heat for 10 points of damage, while a PPC creates 10 heat for 10 damage. PPC has 30 meters extra range, but the AC 10 doesn't have the point blank problem.

AC 10, 12 tons, 7 Crits, 10 shots per ton of ammo, 3 heat, 15 range
PPC 7 tons, 3 Crits, 10 heat, 18 range, 3 minimum range

So a AC 10 with 2 tons of ammo (20 shots) with enough HSs to make heat a non-factor is 17 tons and 11 Crit slots
A PPC with enough HSs to make heat a non-factor is 17 tons and 13 Crit slots

Pretty close, eh? 20 shots is plenty of ammo, but you could drop a Crit slot and a Ton (16 and 10) if you go 10 shots.

In theroy, a mech has 10 heat sinks for a Engine for free, though the size of the engine may mean some of those HSs can't fit in the engine and have to take up critical slots elsewhere. XL Engines DO NOT equal double heat sinks. Double Heat sinks can /not/ go into legs, and you can not mix double HSs with normal HSs, but if you have a engine with standard HS, you can get double heat sinks if they are the only heat sinks you get past those that come with the engine. IS Double HSs are 1 ton for 3 Crit slots.

You start adding on XL Engines, Fero Fiberious armor, Endo Steel, and stuff like that, you /really/ start running out of crit spaces faster than you think... then throw Double Heat Sinks on top of that? You might not be able to mount a AC 20 even if you wanted to and the ammo will be in the leg.

[Johannes Falkner]

Pvt Dancer, on 11 April 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

You start adding on XL Engines, Fero Fiberious armor, Endo Steel, and stuff like that, you /really/ start running out of crit spaces faster than you think... then throw Double Heat Sinks on top of that? You might not be able to mount a AC 20 even if you wanted to and the ammo will be in the leg.

Had this happen in a hombrew. He skimped on the leg armor and stepped on a mine...

BOOM!

[Pvt Dancer]

Johannes Falkner, on 11 April 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

Had this happen in a hombrew. He skimped on the leg armor and stepped on a mine...

BOOM!

HA!