66 replies to this topic

[Discordantone]

Sayyid, on 13 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

I love the misconception that you cant run Endo Steel and Ferro Fiberous, you can!!!

ES and FF each take up 14 crits, not structure. There are 47 Critical spots on a battlemech record sheet, not removing hands, lower, or upper arm actuators.

The best advice I can give is this.

Ferro-Fiberous armor benifits light mechs and light mediums.

Endo Steel helps Mediums and heavies, and light assaults.

I don't think anyone here said that you can't get both, I do believe that the general consensus is that FF Armor is almost patently useless, unless you merely want to sink cash into it, save for on extremely small mechs that only need 4-5 crit slots for weaponry. Even a Raven can mount larger Weapons, as can the Cicada, and if you rig it right, a Jenner doesn't even have the slots to carry both Endosteel and FF, merely lacking the critspaces to remain effective.

So, while yes you can get both, there really is no reason to, unless you -really- need those 9-11 extra armor points that you can get for swapping to FF on a light mech.

Also: I've not played in a couple days, I've been sick... they released the Flea? Since when? If not your Flea reference is absurd.

Edited by Discordantone, 15 November 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[Kyrs]

Sayyid, on 13 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

I love the misconception that you cant run Endo Steel and Ferro Fiberous, you can!!!

ES and FF each take up 14 crits, not structure. There are 47 Critical spots on a battlemech record sheet, not removing hands, lower, or upper arm actuators.

The best advice I can give is this.

Ferro-Fiberous armor benifits light mechs and light mediums.

Endo Steel helps Mediums and heavies, and light assaults.

Totally agree with you on this one. If the need for bigger engine is there, it can help increase your speed. But if C-bill your mains concern the FF and XL won't be your high priority.

You'll see some FF&ENDO on some fast heavy Zombie build that use standard engin, from some ppl speed with resilience is more important that C-bill. One must choose 6.5kps with atleast 6.5 k repair per game OR More C-bill in bank.

FF concept work fine the way it is. Increasing it benefit will just unbalance everything.

[Melcyna]

Rather than increasing the benefit... it's more the harsh penalty (ie: cost to repair and replace the armor) that hampers FF... ie: a better idea is really to relax the penalty of FF rather than increasing the effectiveness of FF in combat terms.

note: that reducing it's penalty is technically increasing the benefit of FF, HOWEVER it does not alter FF combat performance at all, ie: the benefit it gives to FF is OUTSIDE the combat.

on a fast mech? they usually don't have much of an armor to speak off so their benefit AND penalty are quite limited...

on a slow mech? which presumably are heavily armored, they have the most benefit AND penalty... because as the slowest and most heavily armored mech they also tend to be the one that get shot a lot.

regardless of what mech we use, we can't really avoid getting the armor shot to hell except by not engaging ... with FF armor costing as it is, it's VERY difficult to justify taking such a hit to operational maintenance cost.

The crit space penalty is extensive enough as it is... slap the enormous massive price tag jump on it and you really have to ask yourself, 'is this REALLY actually worth the Cbills you are going to end up spending to maintain it?'

Seriously, FF armor is basically equivalent to painting your mech with GOLD PAINT... each shot, each SCRATCH your mech gets causes Cbills to disappear from your wallet while you use it.

[Kyrs]

Melcyna, on 03 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Rather than increasing the benefit... it's more the harsh penalty (ie: cost to repair and replace the armor) that hampers FF... ie: a better idea is really to relax the penalty of FF rather than increasing the effectiveness of FF in combat terms.

note: that reducing it's penalty is technically increasing the benefit of FF, HOWEVER it does not alter FF combat performance at all, ie: the benefit it gives to FF is OUTSIDE the combat.

on a fast mech? they usually don't have much of an armor to speak off so their benefit AND penalty are quite limited...

on a slow mech? which presumably are heavily armored, they have the most benefit AND penalty... because as the slowest and most heavily armored mech they also tend to be the one that get shot a lot.

regardless of what mech we use, we can't really avoid getting the armor shot to hell except by not engaging ... with FF armor costing as it is, it's VERY difficult to justify taking such a hit to operational maintenance cost.

The crit space penalty is extensive enough as it is... slap the enormous massive price tag jump on it and you really have to ask yourself, 'is this REALLY actually worth the Cbills you are going to end up spending to maintain it?'

Seriously, FF armor is basically equivalent to painting your mech with GOLD PAINT... each shot, each SCRATCH your mech gets causes Cbills to disappear from your wallet while you use it.

I have to agree with you concerning the operation cost of the FF, it could be reduced by almost 50% this way your armor bill is 150% instead of 199%(why is it 199% not 200%...??? don't know!! should be a good question on those ask a dev. day)

Since armor get scratch on every game (I'm a poor driver I hit trees yet they make no sound and bounce back) the price at 150% should balance out with double repair bill of XL engine which you don't loss every game.

P.S. my Dragoon 1N - XL360 FF ENDO named "Golden Nugget"

Edited by Kyrs, 04 December 2012 - 12:23 PM.

[Kylere]

I am shocked at the high percentage of people who failed to learn basic math as children and I want to thank Discordantone for laying it out so clearly. I had already spreadsheeted out the gains losses from each after equipping my first Catapult with FF and realizing that it it is a suckers bet and came to the same conclusion. I just hope this saves someone else the 800-900k I spent equipping and removing FF.

ES let me add a Beagle, an ammo slot, and a heat sink. FF just raised my repair bills to the point that it negated the small gain in defensive capability from getting the mech to max armour.

[Bigbaddaboom]

Naros, on 05 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Are you serious? 12% extra is 12% extra. The more armour a mech has, the greater the amount of armour this bonus would grant.
And the larger the mech, the greater the amount of armour they generally have.



Your tone is not appreciated. Your claims that X is worthless, and that there is no reason to use Y on Z, because you say so, without anything to back it up is just rude and pointless.

Also, regarding your Location text; Who the heck cares? You're USian, we get it.

^ you are silly and foolish

Edited by Bigbaddaboom, 05 December 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[B3RZ3RK3R]

Naros, on 05 November 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Are you serious? 12% extra is 12% extra. The more armour a mech has, the greater the amount of armour this bonus would grant.
And the larger the mech, the greater the amount of armour they generally have.



Your tone is not appreciated. Your claims that X is worthless, and that there is no reason to use Y on Z, because you say so, without anything to back it up is just rude and pointless.

Also, regarding your Location text; Who the heck cares? You're USian, we get it.

Not sure if he didn't read OP all the way through or just looking to lash out...