128 replies to this topic

[Serpentine]

Throughout the series, salvage has played an important role in the arms race for better and stronger technology. MW:O is Multiplayer however. Thinking of single player, here's how I believe salvage works.

1. You shoot mech.
2. Mech is crippled/pilot ejects.
3... You take mech as salvage?
4. Mech/Weapons are now yours.

Well... in the case of multiplayer... wouldn't you be taking their mech if it was put in said situation? If the mech was valuable to the other player/group, of course, they would take it. So, that would mean my mech is now theirs. Would the same go with weapons?

So... how would the player keep their mech, if they are the only ones piloting; and in turn, the only ones driving salvage: Taking and Giving.

Please correct/critisize if needed.

Edited by Serpentine, 14 April 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[wooo00oo]

Programming a game is different from real life. Just because in real life (if BT was real) enemies would take your mech doesn't mean that the programmers will make it so (and IIRC they have said they won't).

[Orzorn]

No need for players to lose anything from salvage. The game could produce a random weapon that was still on the enemy mech when it was downed (so you would still have to be more careful instead of just shredding a mech apart) and give that as salvage at the end of the match. The enemy wouldn't lose anything, but it doesn't matter that they didn't lose anything because you can't see or interact with those players anyways.

Regardless, its already been confirmed that salvage will not make an appearance.

[Renegade Mitchell]

Serpentine, on 14 April 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Throughout the series, salvage has played an important role in the arms race for better and stronger technology. MW:O is Multiplayer however. Thinking of single player, here's how I believe salvage works.

1. You shoot mech.
2. Mech is crippled/pilot ejects.
3... You take mech as salvage?
4. Mech/Weapons are now yours.

Well... in the case of multiplayer... wouldn't you be taking their mech if it was put in said situation? If the mech was valuable to the other player/group, of course, they would take it. So, that would mean my mech is now theirs. Would the same go with weapons?

So... how would the player keep their mech, if they are the only ones piloting; and in turn, the only ones driving salvage: Taking and Giving.

Please correct/critisize if needed.

Glad this isn't single player anymore. This is MWO, MECHWARRIOR ONLINE, not a single player campaigne.

[mwhighlander]

It would be interesting, however that if you do get the killing shot on an enemy 'mech, that if he/she were to lose a heatsink or SRM6 (damaged, or destroyed) there is a small chance that you could obtain a damaged heatsink or SRM6 in a postgame salvage. The other player would not be aware of this since they would need to repair/replace that damaged equipment anyway. You would never be able to salvage an entire 'mech, but maybe smaller bits and pieces like in MW2:Mercs where you could also salvage a few leg/arm actuators here and there to reduce your overall repair bill, too.

Just food for thought, I suppose.

[Vollstrecker]

mwhighlander, on 14 April 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

It would be interesting, however that if you do get the killing shot on an enemy 'mech, that if he/she were to lose a heatsink or SRM6 (damaged, or destroyed) there is a small chance that you could obtain a damaged heatsink or SRM6 in a postgame salvage. The other player would not be aware of this since they would need to repair/replace that damaged equipment anyway. You would never be able to salvage an entire 'mech, but maybe smaller bits and pieces like in MW2:Mercs where you could also salvage a few leg/arm actuators here and there to reduce your overall repair bill, too. Just food for thought, I suppose.

Your thoughts mirror mine for the most part, however I kinda just say limit it to things that aren't exactly chassis-specific. Components such as weapons, equipment (heat sinks/jump jets), and the like. While it'd be realistic to have a spare Vlar 300 engine around, the practicality of it in a simulator video game is a little low, I don't think most people want to maintain their storehouse as much as they want to repair their 'mech and get into the next mission.

I personally wouldn't mind it, but I think it'd be wasted effort for most people. Maybe if there is a "hardcore" mode in the future where you have to utilize what you can buy, beg, borrow, and steal during a protracted campaign (such as the Gray Death mission to Verthandi or when Theodore Kurita was defending Marfik with the 11th Legion of Vega). Give each side limited drop weight/cargo space and let prudent planning enter the factors for victory.

[FireStorm2]

Orzorn, on 14 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Regardless, its already been confirmed that salvage will not make an appearance.

I think I missed this. Where did you see it?

[osito]

While i like the idea of salvage, It would be difficult due to mechs always belonging to their pilot. Also if they do let us get some small salvage, what happens if someone assists in your kill or finishes your opponent. Whats the split going to be? I think they should just give us c-bills for our salvage. This way entire team gets a percentage and can rebuild/upgrade their mechs with what they want.

[Kay Wolf]

The devs didn't express anything about salvage not making an appearance in the game. What has been said, however, is that a player will never lose their 'Mech. Yes, if it gets blown out from under them, they are booted from the match, unless they have other 'Mechs in their stable and it's the limited respawn mode Russ was talking about in one of the GDC videos, but the 'Mech will be repaired to a minimum operational capability and the player gets to roll on. Now, what does that mean for salvage? How will salvage be distributed? Unless I've missed something, nothing's been clarified about salvage, as yet.

[Orzorn]

Fire§torm, on 14 April 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

I think I missed this. Where did you see it?

Kay Wolf, on 14 April 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

The devs didn't express anything about salvage not making an appearance in the game. What has been said, however, is that a player will never lose their 'Mech. Yes, if it gets blown out from under them, they are booted from the match, unless they have other 'Mechs in their stable and it's the limited respawn mode Russ was talking about in one of the GDC videos, but the 'Mech will be repaired to a minimum operational capability and the player gets to roll on. Now, what does that mean for salvage? How will salvage be distributed? Unless I've missed something, nothing's been clarified about salvage, as yet.

Yes, I stand corrected. I went back and double checked the relevant dev blogs and Q&As and saw nothing about salvage.

Still, due to the business model, I don't think we'll see it, but I suppose we're going to have to wait for confirmation.

[Wine]

I would hope there would be some form of salvage, that was one of my main reasons I played the battletech and other similar games.

[Motionless]

If salvage makes an appearance I bet it is in some form of scrap (something probably otherwise useless to you besides being able to be sold) and maybe functional weapon systems and leftover ammo (if you required to buy and maintain ammo like we did in MW3.) I doubt they would allow salvaging of mech chassis but you never know (until we get to play.)

Would need to know more about how items in the market work to speculate on it more really.

[William Petersen]

Orzorn, on 14 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

No need for players to lose anything from salvage. The game could produce a random weapon that was still on the enemy mech when it was downed (so you would still have to be more careful instead of just shredding a mech apart) and give that as salvage at the end of the match. The enemy wouldn't lose anything, but it doesn't matter that they didn't lose anything because you can't see or interact with those players anyways.

Ew no. Game-sanctioned duping? YUCK. I don't care that I'll never see or interact with those players again, that's really lame. Weapons are relatively cheap. I have no problem with the possibility of having to replace a few weapons every time I die. They've already said you'll never lose your Mech. I'm fine with not being able to salvage chassis, so long as we can have a chance to salvage some weapons, armour, other components like heat sinks, EW gear, JJs, etc.

[Thorn Hallis]

If salvage would only come from random-generated loot then why implement it anyway?

To keep people on playing a game the game needs some kind of "sink". And I think the "sink" of MWO will be the C-Bill, which people will aquire through playing battles (and maybe in exchange for hard currency). People will have to spend C-Bills to aquire mechs, equipment, modules and such. Now if people can get these mechs/equipment for "free", they would have less "need" to play the game and such might make them loose interest in the game rather early - and I guess thats something that the developers wouldn't want.

[Randal Waide]

I would love to see salvage in the game. It would however require a tech (or team of techs and a recovery vehicle) to pull off a mech chassis salvage. Possibly that could be part of the Merc unit leader's role or House unit? It doesn't cover the Lone Wolf unless tech repair is part of the pilot tree. Then, that might work.
They will probably just give a percentage of c-bills to the opposing factions fighting, the winner getting more than the loser like a 70/30 split (or less) It could also be damage rated like combat points already established in the TT game.
It would be very cool to see little match end movies that show recovery units roll out on the field and the lost mechs and parts from the destroyed mechs show up in your storage bay. Head shots would be very popular then.

[Morashtak]

At this point in time C-Bills = Salvage and Salvage = C-Bills. Maybe Later™ we'll see random rolls for weapons, etc but , for example, if a small laser "drops" and no one needs it then what? Sell it for C-Bills. Needed a ML instead? Buy it with C-Bills.

Not downgrading the idea (after all, a little tension/surprise never hurts) but it all really comes back to the C-Bill value for... well, anything. Making it part of the C-Bill reward for winning the match keeps it simple. Perhaps factor in some sort of reward for "least damage to opposing Mechs" would help alleviate players from targeting downed Mechs ("why? uh, because it was there?").

[Evex]

You sort of have to look at this from a certain angle. Salvage for the most part has been used in the games to get new equipment. In Mechwarrior 4: Black Knight, and Mechwarrior 4: Mercenaries they added an in game shop known as the black market and open market respectfully in each game. In the games I don't think an entire mech is salvaged, unless its in very good condition. Even then some missions you'll just salvage weapons.

The way I see it is that when a 12 vs 12 match occurs you have the equivalent of three lances fighting. That creates a rather large pool of weapons. Lets say one team*, for simplicity sake, contains a team of standard hunchbacks. The salvage for that match might be 12x AC/10, 12X small laser and 24x medium laser. These weapons are then divided among the players on the winning team. A single player recieving 1x AC/10, 1x small laser and 2x medium laser.

These salvaged weapons are then stored in the players inventory, where they can now either sell them to the black/open market, or use them on their own mech. Since we have an inventory one can assume that weapons are destructable. The battlemech you were piloting also might returns in a crippled state, so after repairs you might not have enough c-bills to replace weapons. This is where the inventory and weapons you've salvaged from previous matches comes in handy.

*When I say team I mean a team consistent of players and not the individual lances, so in this case the team refers to the 12x hunchback.

[Gun Bear]

Well from what the developers say the only Salvage in the game will be what is left of your wounded pride after I thoroughly trounce you

[Rear Admiral]

sigh

Where is this mythical salvage going to come from? When my mech gets popped on the battlefield (and I'm quite sure mine will be destroyed darn near every match), I can just pay some cbills, or bones, or clams, or whatever you call them, and get the friggin thing repaired. It will then be ready to go for the next match. All my weapons and armor will be there. So if thats the case, where is this salvage going to come from?

Look, I've been playing Bt since the beginning. I understand that 'salvage is part of the game.' But why would we even need it when we can just buy whatever we need with the money we get for winning/killing/surviving? Thats all salvage is anyway, a glossed up form of currency, sometimes you could put it on your mech.

Nobody is getting any of my weapons or mechs from popping my mech on the battlefield, or anybody elses for that matter. So i ask again: where is this salvage going to come from?

There will be no salvage, its unnecessary, and quite frankly would be an unbalancer that would actually drive people from the game when the good players head shot your atlas you just spent a week or two saving up for, and take their shiny new mech and all its weapons.

Time to give up on salvage, at least in this particular incarnation of BT.

Have a nice day

Edited by Rear Admiral, 15 April 2012 - 09:34 AM.

[Sal Trebov]

Bonus C-Bills for kills would fill the role of salvage pretty nicely, IMO. They could implement a complex system of dividing the type of cash you get from different 'mechs, like killing a Catapult would net you cash that could only be spent on buying a Catapult chassis.

Or they could just streamline it and give you a pile of cash to spend on whatever, which would be amazingly easier (and a lot more useful).