98 replies to this topic

[MagnusEffect]

For people wondering "why would you want a joystick?", there is a huge difference between good joysticks and cheap joysticks. Most of you have probably never used a good joystick. As to whether they are overall superior in precision to a mouse, I think it is too close to call and definitely becomes a matter of preference. However, a joystick definitely has advantages over a mouse. I have used both extensively in MW games and this is what I've noticed:

Off the top of my head, Joysticks perform better in fast close range brawls (mouses tend to travel off the mouse pad), have better throttle control, usually have many ergonomically placed buttons (very important for MW games), and much better view toggling thanks to a hat switch.

Mouses usually shine in long range minute aiming (more common in FPS) and a good mouse is usually WAY cheaper than a good joystick.

[MaddMaxx]

I would think it would be rather difficult to CODE or do GRAPHIC work using a Joystick. Those are "Work Stations", not "Play Stations". LOL.

[Stormeris]

keyboard+mouse on everything!

[guardian wolf]

I am considering getting a new joystick throttle combo for MWO, currently I just run with the keyboard, though I'll say that this laptop keyboard is causing problems as I can't stop because I had to reassign my stop button for fire control.

[Frantic Pryde]

When I went to the play test last week I brought my joystick with me and Paul took it and smashed it on the ground and then told me: "This is an arcade shooter! Get that sim crap outa here!"

True story.

[SideSt3p]

I would assume (from a Dev standpoint) that the majority of your player base is going to use Mouse/Keyboard. Everybody already has one (lol that's how we all got here ) and that's probably what they already had in the office

I'm thinking Beta will be when they get the majority of their joystick testing done, since a lot of peeps on these forums will be rocking the joystick/pedals etc. Atleast, that's what I'd do if I was funding/running QA. I know my fans (atleast of this franchise) would thourghly thrash my beta to try to make the game as great as it could be!

[guardian wolf]

Anyone have suggestions for Joystick/Throttle Combos for when it's released? As I have building a computer down to the costs, now, I just need to add in the costs for the Joystick and Throttle.

[Angelicon]

Rejarial Galatan, on 17 April 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

I am a bit concerned here as well. I cannot fathom effectively running a battlemech with a mouse and keyboard. I am sorry to those of you who prefer this kind of clunky set up. I run a Saitek X52 flight control system. I prefer the ability to have my x/y/z axis's in my right hand along with 5 fire groups at my thumb/index finger and my throttle and jump jets in my left hand. I have played soo many games where this sort of set up is absolutely crucial to success that anything less than at the bare minimum of a joystick with twist function at launch is cause for concern.

Mouse+Keyboard = Clunky setup? Seriously, do you play anything other than old MW games and flight sims?

Mouse and Keyboard will function as well as joysticks in this game. Free to Play means the drooling unwashed masses are going to be courted and relied on heavily for the game to succeed. Those unfortunate, joystickless souls will be on equal footing with the Full Cockpit Elite, or they won't play or pay. Like it or not, this game's control system will cater to the "average" gamer.

[Fiachdubh]

Worrying makes you look old, stop it.

[Zylo]

Angelicon, on 18 April 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Mouse+Keyboard = Clunky setup? Seriously, do you play anything other than old MW games and flight sims?

Mouse and Keyboard will function as well as joysticks in this game. Free to Play means the drooling unwashed masses are going to be courted and relied on heavily for the game to succeed. Those unfortunate, joystickless souls will be on equal footing with the Full Cockpit Elite, or they won't play or pay. Like it or not, this game's control system will cater to the "average" gamer.

I suspect the devs will allow as many options as possible for control setups. Using 1 over the other probably won't be the difference between winning and losing. That being said a full setup with JS/throttle/pedals is probably going to allow more commands to be sent to the mech at once, especially when it comes to directional commands for movement/targeting. This I would expect to give a slight advantage to a pilot using JS/throttle/pedals over an equally skilled pilot using just KB/mouse. I don't think it will turn a total noob using the full setup into a pilot who can easily beat a vet using just KB/mouse.

[Savant]

Depends on the role and how well the game handles stick support.

In ye olde MW titles most of the fights ended up as fairly close range affairs, so the utility of joystick circlestrafing was well and good.

In MW:LL most maps cater to long range fights so I tend to use the keyboard and mouse for more finite control, also the actionmapper is complete crap and I'm not going to restart the game 50 times to fiddle with the stick deadzones.

Edited by Savant, 18 April 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Angelicon, on 18 April 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Mouse+Keyboard = Clunky setup? Seriously, do you play anything other than old MW games and flight sims?

Mouse and Keyboard will function as well as joysticks in this game. Free to Play means the drooling unwashed masses are going to be courted and relied on heavily for the game to succeed. Those unfortunate, joystickless souls will be on equal footing with the Full Cockpit Elite, or they won't play or pay. Like it or not, this game's control system will cater to the "average" gamer.

Um yes. I do play games other than old MW games and flight sims. But that is neither here nor there. Having to reach across a FULL KB for commands is awkward and slow. Having commands LITTERALLY 1/4" to 1" away from each other speeds up the process of not wasting C-Bills. Oh, and for the record. The "average" gamer has a joystick at least.

[Mason Ventris]

If it said "video of game one day before launch" that would be the time to worry. Everything in has its place in time. Right now its "arrrgh kill him kill him... Dood ya suck." " Hey thats what family is for."

[Motionless]

Joystick is just worse really, you get more of an intuitive feel with a joystick but that's about it, and intuitive feel is often disconnected with effectiveness and efficiency (like the mouse, while very popular and easy to understand, when it comes to text editing, and web browsing a mouse is slower than a keyboard, but easier for people who aren't really into computers to pick up and understand.) And once you're experienced enough to have passed over that hump there's not much reason to go back.

Rejarial Galatan, on 18 April 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Um yes. I do play games other than old MW games and flight sims. But that is neither here nor there. Having to reach across a FULL KB for commands is awkward and slow. Having commands LITTERALLY 1/4" to 1" away from each other speeds up the process of not wasting C-Bills. Oh, and for the record. The "average" gamer has a joystick at least.

Not a chance. Now-a-days, no way the average gamer has a joystick, the average games can't even use them.

And if you have to reach across a full KB for commands that's due to an idiotic keyboard setup, thankfully we're on computers and most of those are remap-able. With one or more modifier keys you can keep dozens of commands directly under the fingers of your keyboard hand.

Edited by Motionless, 18 April 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[Hellen Wheels]

Scav, on 17 April 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

After seeing the latest video, "Beta testing w/ Friends and Family," I'm a bit worried 'cause I didn't see anyone in the video using a joystick. I thought I read somewhere that there'll be joystick support. This will certainly be an "adjustment" for us ol' 'mechWarriors.

You're worried about JOYSTICK support??!!

I'm not worried...just sick and tired of sitting and waiting.

Between Paul's trolling and all the other vapory promises, I'm just sick and tired of the whole vapory concept.

I give it three months, outside, if it ever launches at all. If they don't get off their butts, this will be just another exercise a la BT:3025.

You heard it here first: VAPORWARE, plain and simple.

KMA:OUT

[Rejarial Galatan]

<growls at Motionless> joystick is just worse really, you get more of an intuitive feel with a joystick but that's about it, and intuitive feel is often disconnected with effectiveness and efficiency <<< Motionless

This made my jaw drop pure and simple. Correct me if I am wrong, and I doubt I am here. Are we not making weapon systems for our armed forces <dont care what nation you call home, this is true of ANY nation> that are more intuitive and easy to use for the soldiers?? Last time I checked, the more intuitive you can make a weapon or weapon system, the more effective and efficient it becomes!!! saying a joystick is worse is like telling a sniper that he MUST kill that target a mile away, but, because its more intuitive he CANNOT use a scope. It is true in ANY combat flight sim the MORE intuitive you make your controls for yourself the MORE efficient and effective you become. FORCING players to use a mouse/KB KILLS efficiency for those of us WHO GREW UP using a JS/Throttle quad set up.

[Insidious Johnson]

OMG NO NUERAL INTERFACE YET? Everything else is so... clunky.

[Motionless]

Rejarial Galatan, on 18 April 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

This made my jaw drop pure and simple. Correct me if I am wrong, and I doubt I am here. Are we not making weapon systems for our armed forces <dont care what nation you call home, this is true of ANY nation> that are more intuitive and easy to use for the soldiers?? Last time I checked, the more intuitive you can make a weapon or weapon system, the more effective and efficient it becomes!!! saying a joystick is worse is like telling a sniper that he MUST kill that target a mile away, but, because its more intuitive he CANNOT use a scope. It is true in ANY combat flight sim the MORE intuitive you make your controls for yourself the MORE efficient and effective you become. FORCING players to use a mouse/KB KILLS efficiency for those of us WHO GREW UP using a JS/Throttle quad set up.

One of the reasons weapons are made intuitive for soldiers is because they're often in extreme situations of stress or even injury when they need to operate their equipment, gamers obviously don't have this happening. Another reason is because it can make possible the training of many soldiers simultaneously. And from what I understand, when they design some things they also consider the fact that in an extreme emergency that untrained civilians may need to utilize the equipment -- claymore mines don't really need to say "this way forward" with an arrow unless the person is under duress or if they're untrained.

And no, what is intuitive and what is most effective are often different. There's a reason people have coaches and instructors talk to them about their golf swing or the way they throw a baseball. The intuitive way to swing a club for most people is often both inaccurate and not as powerful as a less intuitive more refined and learned swing.

[Rejarial Galatan]

now that i want! hook my brain to my computer!

[Rejarial Galatan]

Motionless, on 18 April 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

One of the reasons weapons are made intuitive for soldiers is because they're often in extreme situations of stress or even injury when they need to operate their equipment, gamers obviously don't have this happening. Another reason is because it can make possible the training of many soldiers simultaneously. And from what I understand, when they design some things they also consider the fact that in an extreme emergency that untrained civilians may need to utilize the equipment -- claymore mines don't really need to say "this way forward" with an arrow unless the person is under duress or if they're untrained.

And no, what is intuitive and what is most effective are often different. There's a reason people have coaches and instructors talk to them about their golf swing or the way they throw a baseball. The intuitive way to swing a club for most people is often both inaccurate and not as powerful as a less intuitive more refined and learned swing.

Lets look at it from a PURE canon perspective and from a single video they released, you know the one, the atlas being hot dropped? As the camera pans across the cockpit what do we see aside from that lovely hula girl? Yes, A JOYSTICK AND THROTTLE QUADRANT! it states in canon, cannot remember where for the life of me, but battlemechs are controled by a joystick and a throttle quadrant. Why would PGI make a game where this is not a supported option when the very mechs we will be piloting would be controled by a JS/TQ if we were actually inside it? Would you want to drive a 100 ton warmachine IRL with a mouse and KB? I think not.