98 replies to this topic

[Scar]

I never said you aren't. What i wanted to say is that nowadays joysticks lost much of their users because when it comes to shooters - mouse is a more efficient way of control.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I see what your saying now. Me, only shooter I really play is BF3 on 360 so what do i know XD

[omega5 9er]

Mechwarrior wouldn't be the same without Joystick support.
It'll be there, if not at launch then somewhere down the road.

[Rejarial Galatan]

From what I have been hearing, JS support out of the gate.

[Scav]

Scar, on 21 April 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I never said you aren't. What i wanted to say is that nowadays joysticks lost much of their users because when it comes to shooters - mouse is a more efficient way of control.

FPS is one thing, MW is a whole diff animal. True, mouse is better for FPS but joystick has it uses even for those, like piloting a helicopter in BF2142.

[Scar]

Scav, on 22 April 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

FPS is one thing, MW is a whole diff animal. True, mouse is better for FPS but joystick has it uses even for those, like piloting a helicopter in BF2142.

And what is the difference? For me, the joystick is useful only in aviation simulators where you need to maintain sustained evolutions by one or more than one axes to perform the maneuvers like the loop or barrel roll. In other cases, like Mech or tank piloting - mouse do the job better.

Edited by Scar, 22 April 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[Sug]

I'll be disappointed if mouse/keyboard is more conducive to piloting than a joystick.

I get that it's free to play and not everyone has a joystick so it's smart to include mouse/keyboard support. But if non-joystick users can play at the same level as someone using a stick just make MWO a first person shooter and drop the simulation pretense. I didn't see the pilot in that teaser video plugging in his mouse.

I don't see many racing game players using a mouse. Sure you CAN, but a wheel and pedals is superior in that situation.

I love mechwarrior. I like using a joystick/throttle for mechwarrior. If using a mouse gives you so much more control and precision that using one is the only way to be competitive I don't see myself hanging around very long. If I want to use a mouse I'll go play a shooter.

So yes, add mouse support, but please balance it so it remains an entry level way to control a mech.

[Scar]

Sug, on 22 April 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I'll be disappointed if mouse/keyboard is more conducive to piloting than a joystick.

I get that it's free to play and not everyone has a joystick so it's smart to include mouse/keyboard support. But if non-joystick users can play at the same level as someone using a stick just make MWO a first person shooter and drop the simulation pretense. I didn't see the pilot in that teaser video plugging in his mouse.

I don't see many racing game players using a mouse. Sure you CAN, but a wheel and pedals is superior in that situation.

I love mechwarrior. I like using a joystick/throttle for mechwarrior. If using a mouse gives you so much more control and precision that using one is the only way to be competitive I don't see myself hanging around very long. If I want to use a mouse I'll go play a shooter.

So yes, add mouse support, but please balance it so it remains an entry level way to control a mech.

Racing games is the same story as aviation simulators - you should maintain sustained evolution to keep your car on the road, and to do this you need to know every time where is the neutral position of your controller and how much you should deflect it from the neutral position to set the right evolution. That's why you need a controller with centered load and return, like joystick or steering wheel.

Mech piloting is a different story, you don't need to twist the torso with a constant angular speed for a long time, as well you don't need the ability to return your controller in neutral position by releasing it. But what you really need is an ability to aim your weapons as fast as it's possible - that's where the mouse beats the joystick easily. That's why MW-alike games are more like a shooters, than racing or aviation simulators.

And no one in the right mind will downgrade the mouse intentionally in favor of joystick users - be it a f2p or p2p game.

Edited by Scar, 22 April 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[Togg Bott]

i for one am a real old school MW. i have been around from the START.

that being said, i will be using a Bastardized system of high quality Mouse, dedicated throttle and foot pedals. its not for everyone, but hey, thats what makes people both interesting and frustrating at the same time.

not worried about the set-up since i read that ALL the Devs are Hardcore MW players .

[Scar]

Togg Bott, on 22 April 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

that being said, i will be using a Bastardized system of high quality Mouse, dedicated throttle and foot pedals. its not for everyone, but hey, thats what makes people both interesting and frustrating at the same time.

I planned exactly the same combination, before i bought the Hydra.

[Sug]

Scar, on 22 April 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

But what you really need is an ability to aim your weapons as fast as it's possible - that's where the mouse beats the joystick easily. That's why MW-alike games are more like a shooters, than racing or aviation simulators.

And that's how the devs can balance mice. Cap the speed at which you can move the reticle.

Mechs aren't little guys running around with MP5's tucked in close, dancing around corners popping off headshots and ducking back. These are giant, heavy machines. Physics still apply.

I'm not against mouse support, i'm against the devs letting the mouse become superior. I mean, yeah they already are, which is why you don't see console players getting pitted against kb/m pc players in shooters. We'd destroy them.

But if MWO is going to mix Joysticks, mice, and gamepads(?) together something needs to be done to even out the playing field.

Personally I'd like play with a joystick and a mice. I'd use the joystick for piloting but if i'm making a long shot i'd move my hand to the mouse to move the reticle more precisely.

[Scar]

Sug, on 22 April 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

And that's how the devs can balance mice. Cap the speed at which you can move the reticle.

Unfortunately for the old school mechwarriors - it will change nothing. MWLL has such a restrictions on the speed of torso rotation, but the main problem of joystick isn't a speed by itself, but principle it's working on.

[Sug]

If they can't balance it they should drop mouse support. Let people aim with the arrow keys. Everyone's got a keyboard.

i just feel like we don't need 2 Hawkens...

Edited by Sug, 22 April 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Scar]

I don't see any point why they should do that. By this logic we'll end up with FPS and network latency restrictions, just because some people have a better computers and connection than others. No need to punish people just because they want to use efficient controllers.

There shouldn't be the approach "the game for controller" - only controller for the game. Choose the most efficient and enjoy the game.

[Kreisel]

Rejarial Galatan, on 18 April 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

Cant make an Assault dance? Sounds soo similar to the claims I used to hear on SWG: you cannot kill an ISD with a B-Wing, it simply cannot be done. I proved ppl wrong, and with out a toe gun OR armor on my B-Wing, and usually under 70 seconds to boot. I can make any mech dance with a good set up of jump jets at 100 tonnes. <evil grin>

oh and, for those of us who are used to it, there IS no going back from a joystick, its how our brains are actually wired truth be told

Said you can't make them dance in the same way, that not to say you can't pull off some neat tricks. (and there is less of a NEED to in order to survive, though being able to dodge is still important and very helpful). but you'll take note the mech I referenced (in regards to mw4 Mercs) could not fit jump jets, had a 360 degree torso twist, juked about at speeds almost double that of most assault mechs, and you died if some much as half of a single alpha strike fired by a well built heavy clipped you. Not a lot of room for error and simply put... the tricks you use are different.

[fadedparadox]

Joystick would be wonderful. MW was one of the few games I ever used a joystick in, but it was hard to play without one.

[Rejarial Galatan]

its like this, they SAID it will have joystick support pure and simple. We can ALL see it has mouse keyboard support by watching the vid on F&F Beta. Whether you use a JS/TQ/Pedal system or a mouse/kb or some funky combo is a PLAYER pref. If player A is M/KB and B is JS/TQ and loses to A then his skill is what it was at death. Players will rock what ever control setup they prefer. end of story

as for me? JS/TQ only lol

[guardian wolf]

Oswin Aurelius, on 19 April 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

I apologize, I hadn't remembered posting in this topic before. I blame lack of sleep and too much grinding in the Old Republic. >_>

Don't was just saying that two posts in the same night at the top of the page, was friggin awesome

Rejarial Galatan, on 19 April 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Guardian Wolf, I am gonna break the sci-fi bounderies and offer you a seat in my mess hall on the I.K.S. Toruk a Negh'Var class warship in the Klingon Defense force. I am also inviting you Belial! I have 2 CARGO BAYS FULL OF BLOOD WINE FOR US! QAPLA!

Well, I'm honored, but currently, I am stationed with my fellow Mando'ad on board Mandalore's Vengeance, a Keldabe Battleship. Have a couple of toasts for me though.

Scav, on 19 April 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

1st, sleep is for the weak.

2nd, Ol' Republic is a shame.

I would have to agree, I was waiting for KOTOR 3, and instead they published this? I guess I'll have to wait til it's a F2P.

[Angelicon]

Sug, on 22 April 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

If they can't balance it they should drop mouse support. Let people aim with the arrow keys. Everyone's got a keyboard.

i just feel like we don't need 2 Hawkens...

I am -really- glad you aren't a MWO dev.

I'm all for "realistically" slow torso motion, just as WoT spins the turret and elevates/depresses the tank's gun at a certain rate based on that tank's stats. But laying my intended aim point on my target should not be programatically hindered based on my choice of input device.