136 replies to this topic

[EDMW CSN]

God Hand, on 19 April 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

I dunno, Since when is a giant electronic beast been fully submersible, would it or would it not affect your ammunition, your laser weapons, your missile pods, your jet packs, electronic warfare, countermeasures and so on? Honestly I think knee deep should be the max depth for a mech.

When under water in MW3, plenty of your weapons could not fire. That should be the way.

Even then it would be interesting to have underwater maps in MWO, so we can use mechs with LRTs (Long Range Torpedoes) and SRTs (Short Range Torpedoes) and of course, terribad viewing distances

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 19 April 2012 - 01:03 AM.

[ZOU]

Coolant pods = bad idea as far as I can see, managing your heat is a big part of fighting in a mech and should stay that way, in my opinion, stays true to canon.

[LordDeathStrike]

coolant tech that works does not exist in 3049, not even in the clans. sarna is your friend. until coolant pods you rely entirely on heat sinks and envioronment, like if you are in a vacuum in the dark, your heat sinks are cooling down to nearly 0 kelvin, but if in the sun you are cooking and so forth. there isnt a huge difference in submerging a mech in water thats almost the same temp as local air either given the fact that most of the time your heat sinks under heavy load are 250-1000 degrees hotter (kelvin, not puney F or C degrees) then the ambient temps.

when cooling pods do come out they cause alot of dmg by over rapidly cooling the sinks by dumping freon on them, shocking the hot metal making it extremely brittle.

expect reliable safer to use coolant pods in the mid 3060s for both clans and IS.

[ice trey]

I don't want to see coolant flushing in this game. At all.

Coolant flushing was an alright idea in single player, because you were pitted against what could sometimes be dozens of opponents, and even with lancemates, who tended to be dumb as paint-huffing-pidgeons, you needed whatever advantage you could get.

But for multiplayer, I think that coolant is a horrible idea. Coolant flushing promoted the excessive use of energy weapons and the neglect of autocannons. It promoted one-shot-kill alpha strikers rather than bracketing and staggering shots to reduce heat concerns.

Long story short, Coolant leads to making the game into more of a twitch-clickers game, letting whoever gets that first volley off first get the advantage. Remove that, and the game starts being more about playing smart. Play it safe and bring an AC5 as a main weapon that can be fired with little concern over heat, or take the much more powerful PPC without ammo explosions to concern yourself over, but ride the heat curve the whole while? Fire your PPCs from your Awesome one at a time, or group them all together and see how far you can push your machine before it shuts down.

Coolant gives you two or three chances to wave heat, sure. However, two or three chances means that you're almost guaranteed to have at least one kill in before you get killed yourself. That's why I don't like it. Battletech and Mechwarrior are about riding the heat scale, not about "FIRE ALL BARRELS" and then using get-out-of-jail-free cards to avoid shutdown.

[Samuel Maxwell]

The more I read, the less I want coolant flushing. I'm convinced by the opposition. I'm not playing mwo to play another FPS

Edited by Samuel Maxwell, 19 April 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[Victor Morson]

God Hand, on 19 April 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

I dunno, Since when is a giant electronic beast been fully submersible, would it or would it not affect your ammunition, your laser weapons, your missile pods, your jet packs, electronic warfare, countermeasures and so on? Honestly I think knee deep should be the max depth for a mech.

Well just speaking of canon, 'mechs are fully sealed to (as others have said) fight in vacuums, let alone under the water. There's been actual missions in past games such as Ghost Bear Legacy entirely underwater.

That said both water and vacuum fighting are terrible ideas with huge counterpoints not represented in past games. ANY armor breach in an area that's currently in the water will be immediately flooded - something I'd love to see in MWO. Sure standing in water with heat sinks in your legs cools you down - but if your armor gets blown off that leg, say goodbye to it!

Vacuum fighting would be harder to represent in MWO due to the lack of pilot death / total 'mech destruction, since it's biggest risk is getting damage to the cockpit. The pilot inside, due to needing to wear typical MechWarrior clothing, isn't exactly in a space suit and is subject to getting all his or her oxygen blasted out / extreme cold blasted in.

Edited by Victor Morson, 19 April 2012 - 10:12 AM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Coolant pods push the balance even more in favor of laser boats. As if ballistic weapons are disadvantaged enough already. I guess with the limited mech lab we won't the the OMG laserboats as much, but I still think the whole concept is detrimental to the game.

[RedDragon]

I hope there won't be a "free" cooling flush as in MW3+4. Coolant pods are another thing. They cost weight and space and only work a single time while being highly fragile when fired upon. So maybe they could be added (at a later time) while still keeping the game balanced. But I don't think I'll miss them if they aren't ever included.

[Rejarial Galatan]

<sigh> I myself when I am pushed into purchasing ammunition, be it bullets, missiles, gauss slugs or anything else, tend to steer away from ammunition and money consuming weapons infavor of energy weapons. Why do I do this? Simple. As a mercenary I am looking to make money, not spend it. It is a fact I will lose armor, weapons and limbs. I will have structure damaged, electronics and other components vital to my machines operation. Compound this with needing to restock ammunition and my costs just go up. Oh, I have other mercs under my command? I gotta pay them for just fighting with me against what ever we are paid to fight. Then, I gotta repair THOSE machines and fill THEM with ammunition? Ya, I kinda would rather invest in keeping my beam weapons and any other components vital to the machines operation and my safety at 100%. As to something I mentioned before about my reactor having a coolant system for its nuclear fuel? who says I gotta pour that fluid out on the deck when I flood my heat sinks? Have high heat resistant coolant lines attatched to the base of each sink and flood coolant through the lines and back into the reactor. Sounds an awful lot like a modern day engine and radiator system.

[BerryChunks]

coolant flush was an "I ****** up managing my weapon/heat sink selection/alpha firing too much, I need a get out of jail free card", mechanic.

So I hope it doesn't show in MW:O.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Not having a coolant flush system WILL work for some and be completely fatal for others. As to which side of the fence you are on is based on your personal skill level, configuration preferances such as all ammo or all energy weapons. Not having it in will force new players to this universe to leave because they kept shutting down thanks to over heatting and then possibly being killed by the reactor itself if they figured out shut down over ride or because they got obliterated while the mech was in emergency shut down thanks to said heat. To be fair, you must admit whether you like coolant flushing or not, it really should be placed into the game. If it is, who says you MUST flush coolant? I know for a fact there were times when I never used a coolant flush in MW3/MW3M or MW4V or MW4M, but I was glad to have the option. As someone once said, it is better to HAVE the protection and not NEED IT than to NEED IT and NOT HAVE IT.

[rollermint]

No to coolant flush. Take that noob feature away from the game pls, Reign of Thunder is that way if all you wanna do is run and gun.

[Rejarial Galatan]

rollermint, on 19 April 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

No to coolant flush. Take that noob feature away from the game pls, Reign of Thunder is that way if all you wanna do is run and gun.

noob feature? heck no. not even close bub. You forget something very very very very vital here rollermint. WE ALL WERE NEW PLAYERS AT SOME POINT. and when this game launches, NO MATTER OUR PRIOR EXPERIENCE IN THE BT/MW UNIVERSE WE ARE ALL 'NOOBS" get OVER IT. and also, you forget there WILL MOST LIKELY be players who come to this title WITH NO PRIOR MW/BT EXPERIENCE.

Rejarial Galatan, on 19 April 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

Not having a coolant flush system WILL work for some and be completely fatal for others. As to which side of the fence you are on is based on your personal skill level, configuration preferances such as all ammo or all energy weapons. Not having it in will force new players to this universe to leave because they kept shutting down thanks to over heatting and then possibly being killed by the reactor itself if they figured out shut down over ride or because they got obliterated while the mech was in emergency shut down thanks to said heat. To be fair, you must admit whether you like coolant flushing or not, it really should be placed into the game. If it is, who says you MUST flush coolant? I know for a fact there were times when I never used a coolant flush in MW3/MW3M or MW4V or MW4M, but I was glad to have the option. As someone once said, it is better to HAVE the protection and not NEED IT than to NEED IT and NOT HAVE IT.

PLEASE read what I said above and now quote on myself!

[rollermint]

Rejarial Galatan, on 19 April 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

noob feature? heck no. not even close bub. You forget something very very very very vital here rollermint. WE ALL WERE NEW PLAYERS AT SOME POINT. and when this game launches, NO MATTER OUR PRIOR EXPERIENCE IN THE BT/MW UNIVERSE WE ARE ALL 'NOOBS" get OVER IT. and also, you forget there WILL MOST LIKELY be players who come to this title WITH NO PRIOR MW/BT EXPERIENCE. PLEASE read what I said above and now quote on myself!

Stop the rubbish caps, its not going to make people concede to your points or lend extra credibility to your arguments. It'll only make you look all butthurt just because people disagree with your opinion. But are you, Rejarial?

In your previous post you talk how all those heat management without coolant is going to drive new players away. Where exactly do you pull this one out of? The BT universe has went for years without really needing those noob features, including the earlier Mechwarrior games, I believe that the intricacies of not just its lore but the mechbuilding and heat-management are some of the features that made the IP stood out from other robot stomping games.

As you said, we were all new players once and we did just fine for years without those noob features. And I bet future new players will be able to handle themselves a-ok. Notice that I differentiate new players and noobs coz there are significant differences between the two. Which side are you on?

Edited by rollermint, 19 April 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[EDMW CSN]

Rejarial Galatan, on 19 April 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

<sigh> I myself when I am pushed into purchasing ammunition, be it bullets, missiles, gauss slugs or anything else, tend to steer away from ammunition and money consuming weapons infavor of energy weapons. Why do I do this? Simple. As a mercenary I am looking to make money, not spend it. It is a fact I will lose armor, weapons and limbs. I will have structure damaged, electronics and other components vital to my machines operation. Compound this with needing to restock ammunition and my costs just go up. Oh, I have other mercs under my command? I gotta pay them for just fighting with me against what ever we are paid to fight. Then, I gotta repair THOSE machines and fill THEM with ammunition? Ya, I kinda would rather invest in keeping my beam weapons and any other components vital to the machines operation and my safety at 100%. As to something I mentioned before about my reactor having a coolant system for its nuclear fuel? who says I gotta pour that fluid out on the deck when I flood my heat sinks? Have high heat resistant coolant lines attatched to the base of each sink and flood coolant through the lines and back into the reactor. Sounds an awful lot like a modern day engine and radiator system.

Then buy coolant pods. You get an extra 10 second laser spamming time. Assuming they are available of course.

Edited by [EDMW]CSN, 19 April 2012 - 08:32 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

rollermint, on 19 April 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

Stop the rubbish caps, its not going to make people concede to your points or lend extra credibility to your arguments. It'll only make you look all butthurt just because people disagree with your opinion. But are you, Rejarial?

In your previous post you talk how all those heat management without coolant is going to drive new players away. Where exactly do you pull this one out of? The BT universe has went for years without really needing those noob features, including the earlier Mechwarrior games, I believe that the intricacies of not just its lore but the mechbuilding and heat-management are some of the features that made the IP stood out from other robot stomping games.

As you said, we were all new players once and we did just fine for years without those noob features. And I bet future new players will be able to handle themselves a-ok. Notice that I differentiate new players and noobs coz there are significant differences between the two. Which side are you on?

i am on the side of trying to provide as well balanced a game as is theoretically possible in the given time. and for the use of 'noob' as a descriptor? its offensive. pure and simple. maybe not on par with certain words like the N word, but still offensive. I am by no means a noob, but i am also by no means a god.

[TopDawg]

I don't have much experience with prior MW games. For all intents and purposes I might as well be considered new to the MW franchise (and certainly so with the rather pivotal differences being introduced in MWO anyway).

From simply reading up on the game though, and having played MC online quite extensively (and MC2's single player more than a few times) I can say it seems like a coolant flush is a rather 'noob friendly' game design, by your own admission no less (to help out new players - and at worst, guaranteeing at least one easy or free kill). If something is in game, players are going to (ab)use it. Saying one doesn't have to use it just because it's in game is not really much of an argument; because you do have to if you are a competitive person and the meta game calls for it.

I really just wish closed/open beta would come out so people could finally stop speculating and actually see how it all works in action. Then, people will finally be able to make the appropriate feedback. The devs seem genuinely interested in making a balanced, competitive game and if they can't deliver on that, the game is unlikely to do well anyway. So I hope that when the time comes, people leave genuine, good feedback in the best interest of the game as a whole.

[oswin aurelius]

[Thorn Hallis]

Rejarial Galatan, on 19 April 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

noob feature? heck no. not even close bub. You forget something very very very very vital here rollermint. WE ALL WERE NEW PLAYERS AT SOME POINT. and when this game launches, NO MATTER OUR PRIOR EXPERIENCE IN THE BT/MW UNIVERSE WE ARE ALL 'NOOBS" get OVER IT.

Nope, I wont. I was born pro.

[Ramrod]

I would not go as far as to call it a "noob feature," you see plenty of amazingly skilled MWLL players using their coolant flush intelligently. However, coolant flush is basically easy mode. You get to spam your energy weapons with minimal penalty until your coolant runs out, which (as I just said) skilled players can make last nearly an entire match. It was hardly fair in MW4, and it is entirely unfair in MWLL where you can replenish your coolant when you run back to your base.

If coolant flush is included, laser boats will then have the balanced skewed in their favour, and I don't want to see that.

No coolant, please.

Thorn Hallis, on 20 April 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

Nope, I wont. I was born pro.

It's true, I was there, I saw it happen.

Edited by Ramrod, 20 April 2012 - 04:38 AM.