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Upgrades


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#1 Groggy

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:43 AM

I've been upgrading my mech, through the upgrade section in the mech lab. Everything seemed fine until I upgraded the heat sinks. Now the mech is useless and I'm unable to even launch into a game.

I know this is beta, but isn't 'upgrade' suppose to me 'better'? I'm not even going to pretend I know anything about the game. But is my understanding of upgrades and the games meaning different? I fail to see how being unable to launch into a game because I need more heatsinks, which it won't let me add, is an upgrade? Why is it even in the section? Also, why do I have to pay again to downgrade, when I already own the heatsinks to begin with? I can't even find the double heatsinks to pull em off, let alone put the single heatsinks back on.

I tried to find the answer, but all I could find was alot of gibberish and I know more than you about math stuff. This is just confusing to new players. If you're going to have upgrades, then it should upgrade and not say it's an upgrade and leave people sitting there wondering why they can't launch or put more heatsinks, just because of some obscure math formula that actually makes the upgrade a downgrade.

#2 Booran

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:46 AM

I think there should be some clarifications regarding which "upgrades" that actually improve your mech, as it can really differ if it's worth it or not.

#3 Dagnome

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:48 AM

I can agree that currently there is not a real "New player friendly" guide as to how these things work. My advice to you is to jump on TS and ask or PM someone and ask a question if they offer to help out. In the future it would be better for you economic to find out more information before big purchases (Or until there is a more detailed explanation of how these things work in the game).

Many of us know the 'Math" part of it because they have been playing Battle tech/Mechwarrior games for years now so it is second nature to them. Most of them would agree that the game is not to user friendly, as I stated before.

#4 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:49 AM

Your problem seems to be this:
1) You need at least 10 heat sinks (regardless of type) on a mech.
2) Your engine contains a lot of those heat sinks, but if the rating is too low, it doesn't contain enough and you must add additional one
3) While you were allowed to upgrade to DHS, you actually didn't have the space (or weight?) for additional Double Heat Sinks.

So now you're stuck with a mech that needs a few more DHS but doesn't have the weight or space. You currently cannot "downgrade" back to single heat sinks without paying for it, and you will need to find a way to make space (critical slots) or weight for another DHS. It may be possible to achieve htis by installing a more powerful engine (they weigh something, but the space they require only change when you switch from normal to XL Engines and vice versa.)

This is obviously a fundamental flaw with the current system. Ideally, it should not allow you to permanently make the change if you cannot fulfill the requirements. That DHS are also too weak for many mechs is yet another issue...

#5 Nauht

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:52 AM

I don't get it. When you put your weapon in it says how many slots are required. Just count them. The same with heatsinks. 1 ton, 1 slot. When you put it in your mech you can see it takes up a space slot.

Now DHS says it takes up 3 slots... where's the hard math in that?

#6 Lin Shai

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:56 AM

Double heat sinks weigh the same, dissipate 1.4x the heat, but take up 3 critical slots each instead of one.

It's not "obscure", it's outlined specifically in Useful Info and Quick Tips for New players which is the very first post in the new player guides section.

A big part of MechWarrior IS mech design; you kinda have to read stuff.

Edited by Lin Shai, 08 November 2012 - 01:56 AM.


#7 Booran

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:57 AM

Well, the bigger problem is that overall there's not enough information for new players.
If something is called "upgrade" you'd like to think it'll always be better than what you currently have, but some "upgrades" aren't always worth the purchase depending on mech and loadout.
A nice little overview with before/after numbers or graphics would be great to get a quick feel for the upgrade before you purchase it.

#8 ShadowFighter88

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:13 AM

Yeah, calling them an upgrade probably isn't the smartest idea - they're only an upgrade in the sense that, fluff-wise, they use more advanced tech. Really these could probably be seen as one of the earliest example of a 'sidegrade', depending on when they were added to the Battletech board game. Regardless, here's a quick overview of the differences:

Heat Sinks:
Single heat sinks are the default - they each weigh 1 ton, take up one slot in the 'mech and remove 1 unit of heat per whatever increment the game uses.
Double heat sinks weigh 2 tons, take up three slots and remove 1.4 units of heat (directly converting them from the board game - where they removed 2 heat - turned out to be gamebreaking-ly powerful; there's debate over whether 1.4 is the sweet-spot or not but that's a discussion for another thread).

Internal Structure:
Standard is what most 'mechs have by default.
Endo-Steel is lighter than Standard (freeing up tonnage to use for weapons, ammo, equipment, heat sinks, etc) but will take up 14 slots in the 'mech, spread out across its different locations

Armour:
Standard is what most 'mechs have by default.
Ferro-Fibrous is lighter than Standard (freeing up tonnage to use for weapons, ammo, equipment, heat sinks, etc or just letting you fit more armour on the 'mech for the same weight) but will take up 14 slots in the 'mech, spread out across its different locations.

Engines (Not listed in the upgrades, but worth mentioning for completeness):
Standard is what most 'mechs use by default, is housed entirely within the centre torso
XL Engines are lighter than Standard, but is larger and extends into both side torsos - losing any torso section while using an XL Engine will destroy the engine and, by extension, the 'mech itself.


That's it. There's pros and cons to each and you should do some research on things before using any of these options to avoid wasting C-Bills. Some builds work with some of the above, some don't work, depends on the base chassis and what weapons and so on you're packing.

Edited by ShadowFighter88, 08 November 2012 - 02:14 AM.


#9 xDark

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:31 AM

View PostShadowFighter88, on 08 November 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

Yeah, calling them an upgrade probably isn't the smartest idea - they're only an upgrade in the sense that, fluff-wise, they use more advanced tech. Really these could probably be seen as one of the earliest example of a 'sidegrade', depending on when they were added to the Battletech board game. Regardless, here's a quick overview of the differences:

Heat Sinks:
Single heat sinks are the default - they each weigh 1 ton, take up one slot in the 'mech and remove 1 unit of heat per whatever increment the game uses.
Double heat sinks weigh 2 tons, take up three slots and remove 1.4 units of heat (directly converting them from the board game - where they removed 2 heat - turned out to be gamebreaking-ly powerful; there's debate over whether 1.4 is the sweet-spot or not but that's a discussion for another thread).

Internal Structure:
Standard is what most 'mechs have by default.
Endo-Steel is lighter than Standard (freeing up tonnage to use for weapons, ammo, equipment, heat sinks, etc) but will take up 14 slots in the 'mech, spread out across its different locations

Armour:
Standard is what most 'mechs have by default.
Ferro-Fibrous is lighter than Standard (freeing up tonnage to use for weapons, ammo, equipment, heat sinks, etc or just letting you fit more armour on the 'mech for the same weight) but will take up 14 slots in the 'mech, spread out across its different locations.

Engines (Not listed in the upgrades, but worth mentioning for completeness):
Standard is what most 'mechs use by default, is housed entirely within the centre torso
XL Engines are lighter than Standard, but is larger and extends into both side torsos - losing any torso section while using an XL Engine will destroy the engine and, by extension, the 'mech itself.


That's it. There's pros and cons to each and you should do some research on things before using any of these options to avoid wasting C-Bills. Some builds work with some of the above, some don't work, depends on the base chassis and what weapons and so on you're packing.


Wrong. They weigh 1 ton.

#10 ShadowFighter88

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:27 AM

View PostxDark, on 08 November 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:


Wrong. They weigh 1 ton.

Ah, was going by Battletech there - haven't used them yet myself.

Or am I mis-remembering and they were only one ton in Battletech, too?

#11 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:06 AM

View PostShadowFighter88, on 08 November 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

Ah, was going by Battletech there - haven't used them yet myself.

Or am I mis-remembering and they were only one ton in Battletech, too?

Yes, Double Heat Sinks are 1 ton, 3 Crits. Clan DHS are 1 ton, 2 Crits.





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