Jump to content

Engines, Internals and Heatsinks, oh my.


74 replies to this topic

#1 Aegis Kleais

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 5,995 posts
  • LocationMW:O's (un)official Timber Wolf fanboy™

Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:42 AM

Did anyone else get the feeling from the latest Q&A that any Mech (as long as you have the funding) will be able to utilize Endo-Steel (vs. Standard), XL Fusion (vs. Fusion) and Double Heatsinks (vs. Single)?

If not, weren't these features chassis-dependent? Like that only certain chassis were able to utilize them?

#2 RedDragon

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,336 posts
  • LocationKurpfalz, Germany

Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:54 AM

It's pretty clear that (at least at the moment) you can freely chose between all of those upgrades.



Quote

Will you be able to freely (C-bills aside, ofc ) upgrade/downgrade between single/double heat sinks, normal/XL engines, normal/endo steel internals and normal/ferro armour, or will these be strictly variant/chassis specific? –Gigaton

[DAVID] Currently these are unrestricted, though that may change with further testing.


I hope they will change that because installing new types of armor or structure are really more serious changes to a chassis.

#3 JadeTimberwolf

    Member

  • Recruit
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 104 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:55 AM

No these were not Chassis dependent, in the case of Indo-Steel a complete rebuild was required, not nessicarily so for other upgrades.

#4 Aegis Kleais

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 5,995 posts
  • LocationMW:O's (un)official Timber Wolf fanboy™

Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:13 AM

So you guys feel likewise for armor. Standard to Ferro, any Mech can upgrade it as long as they are physically and financially able to.

#5 Nik Van Rhijn

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • 2,905 posts
  • LocationLost

Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:17 AM

It's not whether we agree with it so much as that is, theoretically, how it is. Unless testing determines otherwise. Of course that doesn't mean that they're actually available at start.

#6 Attalward

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • 382 posts
  • LocationSpain

Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

I tihnk yes you will be able to upgrade or buy new internals for any mech. In a way it makes sense, all the variants will stay in line with tecnology. So no meach variant gets old and also helps keeping the number of variants low, so we get more different mechs.

#7 Sean Lang

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 589 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationNorth Carolina

Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:25 AM

Cost of c-bills = balance?

#8 Adridos

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,386 posts
  • LocationHiding in a cake, left in green city called New A... something.

Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:28 AM

Lore, nor the games never directly opposed this idea, so we will probably be able to do it, but I can sense some restrictions (like BV) and a lot of C-bills thrown for that equipment. :D

#9 Kartr

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 560 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:47 AM

From a technical stand point the one I have the biggest problem with is the endo-steel. Armor that's not a big deal you put more on after every battle and your enemies take it off with every shot, swapping standard for FF doesn't seem like it would be a huge undertaking. The engine is a bit more work to do, but still you're lifting one engine out of the chassis and putting another one in, think craning the engine out of a tank to refurbish/repair/replace it.

Endo-steel on the other hand... you're not "upgrading" your 'Mech you're building a completely new 'Mech around a new chassis. You might as well build the endo chassis and then buy all the parts to put on, that way you'd have 2 'Mechs instead of one. To me it just doesn't make sense how you can "replace" a chassis. That being said I'm probably going to do it as soon as I have the money to do so. :D

#10 Aegis Kleais

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 5,995 posts
  • LocationMW:O's (un)official Timber Wolf fanboy™

Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:06 AM

OK, LET'S DO THIS THEN... LIST THE PRO/CON FOR EACH:

ENGINES:
Standard Fusion = De facto energy source for Mech.
XL (XtraLight) Fusion = Half the tonnage of Standard, but takes up more critical space. Same performance. More expensive than Standard. Also, the engine expands into the side torso.

ARMOR:
Standard = De facto armor for Mech. 16pts of armor per ton to be distributed on the Mech.
Ferro Fibrous (FF) = Provides 12% more protection for IS (20% for Clan) than Standard Armor. Takes up more critical space (IS 2x as much as Clan). More expensive that Standard.

HEATSINKS
Single = De facto heat dissipation system for Mech.
Double = For IS, provides 2x the heat dissipation but for about 3x the critical space (2x for Clan). More expensive than Single.

INTERNALS:
Standard = De facto internal structure that supports the Mech.
Endo-Steel = Half the tonnage of Standard, but takes up more critical space (IIS 2x as much as Clan) More expensive than Standard.

Did I get that right? Miss anything?

#11 DV McKenna

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,319 posts
  • LocationUnited Kingdom

Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:37 AM

Irrelevant at best, im not too worried at tech level 1 none of this is available.

Once Tech level 2 is implemented there needs to be some restrictions placed to keep things in line, else every chassis will start to become PPC/Guass monsters irrespective of the chassis base config.

#12 Outlaw2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts
  • LocationIn a van...

Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

View PostSean Lang, on 21 April 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

Cost of c-bills = balance?

No. Unless you are talking about an in-game cost similar to a "battle value" type cost (kinda like how c-bills are used in MWLL). If however the cost is outside the game in the shop, then that will NOT lead to actual game balance but will lead to pay to win scenarios.

If they have a robust "BV" system (custom made for MWO, forget the TT BV system) then I will have less issues with free switching of higher tech parts. However it will take away from the personality of each mech. If there is a good BV system, then you can have in a competitive environment mechs with strictly tech level 1 components right next to mechs with all tech level 2 components. This will be especially important later on once clan mechs are introduced, and we will need clan versus IS tech to balanced in a competitive environment.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 21 April 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#13 That Guy

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • Phoenix Storm
  • Phoenix Storm
  • 890 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:36 PM

since these technologies are still new they should be both rarer, and several times more expensive than "base" price due to that scarcity.

wile it would be very simple to swap out armor types (just unscrew the old armor and bolt on new) internal structure, engines and to a degree, heat sinks should be much more time and cbill consuming to replace and they require significant rebuilds (or even total rebuilds).

Also another thing I want to see. have separate engine heat sink and external heatsink types.

For example your engine has singles wile you have mounted doubles. if you want to get doubles for your engine, you need to buy a new engine that has the doubles installed

#14 Tuhalu

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • 250 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:16 PM

According to the current Strategic Operations book for TT, refits involving Internal Structure, Myomer, CASE, engine type, gyro type or cockpit type require a factory capable of producing that battlemech to accomplish.

Note that this does not include Engine Size, armor type/distribution, heat sink type, new electronic equipment, moving components around, etc.

Given that, I'd personally be happy to see the mech lab restricted in a similar way. That is, some things should require access to a factory, which is only available under special circumstances (sufficient rank in your faction and skill level in that mech) and given sufficient Real Time to perform the operation.

#15 RedDragon

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,336 posts
  • LocationKurpfalz, Germany

Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:28 PM

Maybe you could also restrict it that way that you can chose the type of upgrade when buying the mech, but you won't be able to change it later on. As Tuhalu mentioned, some upgrades can only be accomplished with advanced equipment and can't be done in the field. So you should be able to buy a mech with endo steel but not to upgrade you standard chassis. Heat sinks and armor are not that much of a problem, engines are more difficult but can be done in the field with a well equipped repair facility. But internal structure should be limited to newly bought mechs IMO.

#16 DocBach

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • 4,655 posts
  • LocationSouthern Oregon

Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

I've got no problem with the change in engines as long as XL engines (at least the IS ones) get destroyed with the destruction of a side torso location. It didn't happen in previous versions of this game and kind of unbalanced things.

#17 Solarflux

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • 136 posts
  • LocationDeventer, Netherlands

Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:16 PM

Interesting discussion. Wonder what the devs will do with this as the game progresses. Hoping for chassis dependant features eventually.

Also, for now I totally agree with RedDragon.

Edited by Solarflux, 21 April 2012 - 03:17 PM.


#18 karish

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • The Bold
  • The Bold
  • 174 posts
  • LocationKansas

Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:26 PM

Tech 2 upgrades will have to be earned there is really no other way to do it as you get more exp in your mech you get to unlock bigger and better uprades for it in and all games like this have been this way to think that you will be able to jump in and load up all the best toys at the start is just plain silly let alone being able to afford it

#19 Prosperity Park

    Professor of Memetics

  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,150 posts
  • LocationIs Being Obscured By ECM

Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

  • I would have no problem with the idea of replacing standard structure with endosteel as long as the labor costs are in the same ballpark as buying a new Mech. The parts cost would have to go on top of that.
  • Swapping an engine with an XL engine would require restructuring the entire torso, so that whole procedure plus the new engine would cost almost as much as a new Mech.
  • Replacing non-engine heatsinks with double heatsinks would be feasable, but I think replacing the engine's heatsinks with double heatsinks would be more expensive.


#20 eZZip

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 184 posts

Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

View Postkarish, on 21 April 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

all games like this have been this way to think that you will be able to jump in and load up all the best toys at the start is just plain silly let alone being able to afford it
First off, how about using periods and commas? Second, there is already a leveling component in the game for the pilot and you probably won't start off with enough money to get multiple mechs customized to your satisfaction. People absolutely should not have to play significantly longer (i.e., getting to a high level) in order to get more advanced equipment, since that inevitably leads to frustration via games with players getting owned by those with better equipment.

View PostTuhalu, on 21 April 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

and given sufficient Real Time to perform the operation.
Never do this. The same argument can be made for travelling to different 'planets' (maps), waiting between games (time between contracts/enemy action/new operations/etc.), and repairing your mech. It's generally a terrible idea to actually prevent people from playing your game.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users