64 replies to this topic

[PhunkPhorce]

I'm really hoping that the release and great success of MW:O will renew other game developers interest in simulation games in general. I was a huge fan of many of the space combat sim games (Freespace 1&2, Tie fighter, Xwing alliance, etc.) but there has not been a decent game released in about 10 years.

I'm told that this is because it is a "dead genre" but I would argue the idea of a dead genre is a myth. Double Fine has shown that another so called dead genre, the adventure game, had far more people interested in it than anyone predicted. Even the side-scrolling platform game genre has shown it has life in it with the many different indie titles in this category being released over the last few years.

My thought is this: genre probably isn't as important as developers/publishers think. While we all have different preferences for the type of games we play, the bottom line is we just want a good game that is fun to play. If a new space combat sim game were released that was up to today's standards of graphics and game play, I think it could capture enough interest to be successful. I'm just not sure what it's going to take for a developer to take a chance on such a game.

Thoughts?

[Dirk Le Daring]

Hard to say. If one were to come out, I would only look at it for the LAN play aspect in all probability. Remembering X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, 2 PC's, a bunch of mates, lotsa beer and a hell of a good time.

EDIT:
Then we had NetMech, and, well, that was that.

Edited by Dirk Le Daring, 22 April 2012 - 03:38 PM.

[CoffiNail]

Freelancer was one of my favourite games of all time, Ranks right up there, but under MW series.

I loved both StarLancer and FreeLancer.

[Zakatak]

I wasn't even in my double-digits when space sims were cool (although I do remember playing X-Wing vs TIE on my uncles PC), but you know what I would love? What I would buy a 1000$ HOTAS and fake cockpit with centrifuge for, and play every day and every night?

[MechRaccoon]

PhunkPhorce, on 22 April 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

I'm really hoping that the release and great success of MW:O will renew other game developers interest in simulation games in general. I was a huge fan of many of the space combat sim games (Freespace 1&2, Tie fighter, Xwing alliance, etc.) but there has not been a decent game released in about 10 years.

I'm told that this is because it is a "dead genre" but I would argue the idea of a dead genre is a myth. Double Fine has shown that another so called dead genre, the adventure game, had far more people interested in it than anyone predicted. Even the side-scrolling platform game genre has shown it has life in it with the many different indie titles in this category being released over the last few years.

My thought is this: genre probably isn't as important as developers/publishers think. While we all have different preferences for the type of games we play, the bottom line is we just want a good game that is fun to play. If a new space combat sim game were released that was up to today's standards of graphics and game play, I think it could capture enough interest to be successful. I'm just not sure what it's going to take for a developer to take a chance on such a game.

Thoughts?

2 things,

1. i agree. there is pretty much no such thing as a dead genre. It's just that the genre in question has been eclipsed by another genre for a while, which REALLY sucks. I feel ya. I'm still waiting for a new, improved version of Silent Storm. (If you don't own it, GET IT NOW. IT'S AWESOME.)

2. There HAS been a good space sim released in the past 10 years. FREELANCER. It was released in 2003.

[Volthorne]

MechRaccoon, on 22 April 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

2. There HAS been a good space sim released in the past 10 years. FREELANCER. It was released in 2003.

Even more recently, actually. X3: The Reunion/Terran Conflict/Albion Prelude (the last two are expansions of the first). Now THAT was a gem of a space sim.

[Ambartanen]

hope someone from lucas arts is readding this, and decide:
"Hmmm i wonder if we could do another X-Wing series, instead of all those crappy games we did for the last decade"

[Marowi]

It's interesting to me, because some games--like TIE Fighter--consistently rank among the "best PC games of all time". Here, IGN recently placed it at #3. I, personally, rank it as #1. This is to say nothing of titles like Freespace 2 or Wing Commander III that people I know still talk about.

I think part of the problem lies in an increased focus on graphics/visual style at the expense of effort spent developing gameplay mechanics or storylines--partially related to the rise of console gaming. TIE Fighter, for example, had you wandering around the inside of a Star Destroyer in between missions, talking to flight officers, possibly joining secret societies, and learning quite a bit about the universe you lived in. The medals case was also astonishing. MechWarrior 2 had a similar style: to this day, I bet many of you remember those Clan Halls vividly, and spent more than an hour or two reading up on your Warrior Caste holoprojectors. But, in recent years, console based-space simulators dispensed with these mechanics, really only allowing you to pilot your machine against other machines with little other substance (Rogue Squadron, Crimson Skies, etc.). And I have to admit, I think it's a bit harder to have such in-universe storyline depth on a console. Then, with the console boom, PC-based space sims probably weren't able to compete financially, making their development something of a risk--despite their immense historic popularity.

Edited by Marowi, 22 April 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[fadedparadox]

I still play Eve Online. Only decent one I can find. I'd like to see more, though, yeah.

[malik the mad]

XvT is overdue for a remake, I-war was under-appreciated, And recent X games have not fully captured elite, and the "rooms" are annoying

[Xyph3r]

I´m still playing Freespace 1/2 and the X-wing/Tie-fighter games now and then, and i´ve always been hoping for Freespace 3 to be announced. but since the Volition guys don´t own the rights, there´s VERY little chance...
but I´d be like "OMGWTFBBQ!!!" if i´d ever got the chance to hop into the cockpit and hunt down alien scum another time.

there´s no combat like space combat (almost as awesome as big stompy robots with big guns )

Freelancer and X : also nice, but i din´t like the Mouse-controls... felt like Star Wars: rebel assault....

One does not simply Pilot a starfighter by mouse!

Edited by Xyph3r, 22 April 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[Volthorne]

Xyph3r, on 22 April 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

One does not simply Pilot a starfighter by mouse!

Mice have better control than joysticks (personal experience), and when combined with keyboards (or not if you have a 12 button gaming mouse), you get unrivaled response time and tactical options (Do I use this key combo for ridiculous maneuvers or do I let my AI fly and man the rear turret?). Granted, joysticks do give a bit more immersion.

[Tadakuma]

I loved the space sim games and I would really like to see one with proper inertia and vector movement (I.E Babylon 5 and the new Battle Star Galatica)

However in the modern game development environment it would be very hard to get that sort of thing running. The issue is that modern game publishers are obsessed about maximising profit and are looking to get back 150%-300% on their investment capital over a 3 year period. Specialised games like traditional RPGs, SIMs and Adventure generally only have the capacity to turn a "measly" 100% profit of three years and are being declined because they are "unprofitable"

This was the main reason why MW:O was on the back burner for 2 years, and I am hopping that some recent events in the gaming industry like MW:O, the Double Fine Adventure, Wastelands 2 and Shadowrun Returns are a sign that we have turned the corner and more niche titles will be coming out.

On a related note, I haven't decided if I'm going to back this yet, but a Space Sim MMOG is currently on kickstarter called squad wars.

http://www.kickstart...rs?ref=category

[Dirk Le Daring]

Well, here's a thought......

How awesome would a remake of X-Wing vs Tie Fighter be if THIS TEAM did it. ?

After MW:O that is.

[HeIIequin]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the FreeSpace Open project, which basically took the FS2 engine and improved it to look great. You can even DL a bunch of good campaign mods for FS from Hard Light.net. which boasts a ton of mod campaigns for FS1, 2, FS Open, and some others. In terms of graphical fidelity, I recommend the Blue Planet one. The first part had (amateur) voice acting even (2nd part has none though). Another good one (again found on the Hard Light site) was Wings of Dawn, an anime inspired total conversion. Also a conversion for Babylon 5.

Though if you REALLY want to get hardcore campaign modding, try out Wing Commander Saga, which used the Freespace Open project to make a total conversion based on Wing Commander (set after WC3 I think). Total conversion means 100% new models, story, missions, etc. It even boasts some decent voice acting for a fan made project. JUST came out too.

Having the Freespace 2 source code has allowed for some pretty cool stuff to be made over the years. Some of the mods for it are old and dated to a degree, but some of the stuff to come out recently looks and plays great.

PS.

MechRaccoon, on 22 April 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

I feel ya. I'm still waiting for a new, improved version of Silent Storm. (If you don't own it, GET IT

Yes, Silent Storm is awesome (though the panzerkleins kinda ruin it ). Funny how so many of these 'unpopular' game types are still being made by European companies. Kudos to them.

PPS. I love modders.

Edited by HeIIequin, 22 April 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[John Talbert]

I demand a wing commander privateer remake or revitalization.

[Magnificent Bastard]

I sure hope so. But I'd like to see more focus on Simulation than Combat. Combat is important yes but I want to play a soapbox game that starts me off in a shuttle and I have to work my way up from humble beginnings. Basically... I want a single player version of EVE online, a game where I can interact with a large solo universe at my own pace. Joystick compatibility is a plus but is unnecessary. I still play EV Nova despite its primitive graphics.

[Xyph3r]

Volthorne, on 22 April 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Mice have better control than joysticks (personal experience), and when combined with keyboards (or not if you have a 12 button gaming mouse), you get unrivaled response time and tactical options (Do I use this key combo for ridiculous maneuvers or do I let my AI fly and man the rear turret?). Granted, joysticks do give a bit more immersion.

well, i´ve got a 12- button 4-axis wingman extreme 3d pro that says i will outmaneuver your mouse^^
- ridiculus maneuvers bound to keys? no offense, but, do them manually or you´ve got no pilot skills
-rear turrets... well, if it´s got a turret, i no longer consider it a fighter, more a corvette, or an armed freighter like the YT-1300 (known to most as "Millenium Falcon" )
i was never really into this fat pots, interceptors or superiority fighters are my fav´s. (maybe a heavy like the Hercules from FS)

and in the spacesims i like, there´s no mouse -aiming like in X, the weapons point at a fixed point in front of my ship, so mice become obsolete

Edited by Xyph3r, 22 April 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[Shredhead]

Magnificent *******, on 22 April 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

I sure hope so. But I'd like to see more focus on Simulation than Combat. Combat is important yes but I want to play a soapbox game that starts me off in a shuttle and I have to work my way up from humble beginnings. Basically... I want a single player version of EVE online, a game where I can interact with a large solo universe at my own pace. Joystick compatibility is a plus but is unnecessary. I still play EV Nova despite its primitive graphics.

So you HAVE to try the X series. Every part of it sucked me in, swallowed me for days on end and never really released me. There you can build an empire of your own, while you decide when to move on with the campaign. It has one of the best economy systems I've encountered in this genre, and it beats Freelancer easily (while I still like Freelancer).
http://en.wikipedia....nd_the_Frontier

With X:Rebirth they are to release a new game 2012.

[Trevnor]

I still play and love Freelancer. Great Space combat Sim. You could cut thrust and continue coasting on your original vector, which is missing from some other space sim games.