64 replies to this topic

[CyberCrist]

First, in answer to those that are saying that the mouse has better control than a joystick. Yes, you are right. But most "sim" players want a bit of realism, and I haven't ever seen a mouse in the cockpit of a star/space fighter. In my opinion a joystick adds a bit of realism, thus making the game more enjoyable.

As for space sims which are worth getting, they have already been mentioned, X3 and Wing Commander Saga. Both are outstanding.

[Moodysea]

http://blackprophecy.com/



So no one is playing/heard of this this?

It's F2P the graphics are really sweet and it's smooth.

P

Edited by Moodysea, 23 April 2012 - 06:31 AM.

[Volthorne]

Xyph3r, on 22 April 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

well, i´ve got a 12- button 4-axis wingman extreme 3d pro that says i will outmaneuver your mouse^^
- ridiculus maneuvers bound to keys? no offense, but, do them manually or you´ve got no pilot skills
-rear turrets... well, if it´s got a turret, i no longer consider it a fighter, more a corvette, or an armed freighter like the YT-1300 (known to most as "Millenium Falcon" )
i was never really into this fat pots, interceptors or superiority fighters are my fav´s. (maybe a heavy like the Hercules from FS)

Oh really? So you can barrel roll with that joystick, huh? Also, I didn't say "maneuvers bound to keys (AKA macro binding)" I said "key combinations" implying that you still had to press and hold them in a certain order, rather than use a one-press macro (I detest macros). And seriously? If your heavy fighter doesn't support rear turrets, then you bought the wrong one.

[Shredhead]

This is released right now.

[Talon Thorn]

I absolutely LOVED the Freespace Games, and Freelancer as well. I had X3, but it really had a hard time running on my machine at the time, so I never really got into it. I have heard of Black Prophesy, and have been meaning to check it out.

Edited by Talon Thorn, 23 April 2012 - 09:10 PM.

[Talon Thorn]

Volthorne, on 23 April 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Oh really? So you can barrel roll with that joystick, huh? Also, I didn't say "maneuvers bound to keys (AKA macro binding)" I said "key combinations" implying that you still had to press and hold them in a certain order, rather than use a one-press macro (I detest macros). And seriously? If your heavy fighter doesn't support rear turrets, then you bought the wrong one.

Uh, yeah... I can barrel roll with my joystick.... what's your point?

[Project Dark Fox]

I'd love another space sim bad.... hell, one with a BattleTech theme would get me going harder. I don't think the gaming world has SEEN one, in fact.

[NARCoMAN]

I tried hard to get Nexus: Jupiter incident, to be fun, but it was too goofy and buggy.

[Magnificent Bastard]

I'm not a graphicswhore but am I the only one who thinks these games look terrible:

Spoiler

Moodysea, on 23 April 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Shredhead, on 23 April 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

It's hard to put into words why I dislike the look of these games (and other similar space combat games I've seen in the past)... but don't they look and feel a bit cartoonish to you? I like games with attractive graphics as much as the next guy but this just feels forced and that just rubs me the wrong way. It's like when you see an attractive woman in a sluttydress with far too much makeup on. You just want to grab a wet towel and wipe that crap off her face.

CyberCrist, on 23 April 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

First, in answer to those that are saying that the mouse has better control than a joystick. Yes, you are right. But most "sim" players want a bit of realism, and I haven't ever seen a mouse in the cockpit of a star/space fighter. In my opinion a joystick adds a bit of realism, thus making the game more enjoyable.

Exactly. I love using a joystick for the feeling of immersion I don't get with a mouse and keyboard.

Edit: Apparently the forum censor doesn't like me. Had to adjust this post a couple times to make it readable.

Edited by Magnificent Bastard, 23 April 2012 - 11:23 PM.

[Adridos]

I hope yes, same with strategy games. It's just people grow tired of some genre and then it takes a lot of work to make it popular again. Right now, FPS is the kingh, with RPGs closing in.

[Catamount]

I'm sorry to say, but I don't think think it's a genre problem; I think it's an attention span problem.

Back in the 90s, sim fans were perfectly fine taxiing to a runway, taking off, and flying to a waypoint before action began. Hell, in Falcon 4.0, you had to spend like 10 minutes just starting the damn jet! You had to bootstrap the main engine off the jet fuel starter, and start up the electrical systems once you had engine power, and then synchronize the hoosiewhatsit thingamajoober, all in the right order. Maybe that's a little too extreme there for a game, but the point is, every game today is basically the gaming equivalent of this:



And honestly, I think there might be too much time between each explosion there. Most of the CoD players I've met would get board if they had that much down time between shooting something (I mean, .2 seconds; it's an eternity!).


Now, there have to be gamers somewhere who can stand doing something besides shooting and blowing things up every second of every minute. I mean, who are all these people who managed to make it past the near-beginning of Mass Effect 1, spending hours running around on the Citadel?

But just the same, with that one franchise excepted, most of the attention is just towards pure action, all the time in games these days. It's where the money is focused, because it's where the player base is focused. Even in games like RTS, just look at the progression. Look at Supcom and Forge Aliance compared to Supcom 2. The only thing that changed was basically dumbing it down (besides adding a nice tech tree...only to replace other good mechanics with it), and making the action come along ten times quicker. Now, instead of a well thought-out RTS where careful planning and strategy, and counter-strategies by your enemies come into play, the second is much more a "LOL MOAR UNITS" kind of a game. Just spend 5 minutes building up a giant army of something, with a few experimentals that now take no time to unlock, and rush the opponent. No strategy, but hey, more explosions!

Edited by Catamount, 24 April 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[Belrick]

I hope they come back. Haven't really played anything in the genre for a while. Except of course Wing Commander Saga: Darkest Dawn. That was some real good fun and nostalgia.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Independence War (I-War), was awesome, with simulated Newtonian Physics.

Somebody buys that license and well..

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 24 April 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Mota Prefect]

Belrick, on 24 April 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

I hope they come back. Haven't really played anything in the genre for a while. Except of course Wing Commander Saga: Darkest Dawn. That was some real good fun and nostalgia.

Was just going to suggest WC: Darkest Dawn myself, and you're right, great game and nostaligia! Probably the best indie game I've ever played.

[Carebear]

Miners War.




You just need to dig deeper, it sucks, its all about RTS, WOW-clones and shooters nowadays, I see also linear story focused games coming. Could be just me but I see RTS slowing down.

Im all excited old good hack and slash is coming at least Diablo 3.

Edited by Carebear, 24 April 2012 - 11:23 AM.

[Tizzer]

Must admit never got on with the X games , never had the same magic freelancer had for me, just got evochron mercenary today so I'm hoping that captures the awesomeness. One can Hope
but the others i haven't played here i'll have to try =D

[Hayashi]

Played DarkStar One recently, pretty fun.

Dirk Le Daring, on 22 April 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Well, here's a thought......

How awesome would a remake of X-Wing vs Tie Fighter be if THIS TEAM did it. ?

After MW:O that is.

Why not just create an Aerospace Fighter simulation, complete with Dropship, Jumpship and Warship combat? Then we could merge the two and have AeroTechs flying against 'Mechs...

And have the LAM at last.

Nobody's EVER done an AeroTech simulation.

Moodysea, on 23 April 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

http://blackprophecy.com/



So no one is playing/heard of this this?

It's F2P the graphics are really sweet and it's smooth.

P

NEVER heard of this. 0.0

I think I just found something to do while waiting for that open beta... Thanks!

EDIT: @#$%, my country isn't allowed to play it. Forget it...

[Ghost]

I got to play Jumpgate Evolution during a F&F beta. It sucks it got canceled. Good news on that front though.

[Fameth Sathronaveth]

Magnificent *******, on 23 April 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

I'm not a graphicswhore but am I the only one who thinks these games look terrible:

Spoiler

It's hard to put into words why I dislike the look of these games (and other similar space combat games I've seen in the past)... but don't they look and feel a bit cartoonish to you? I like games with attractive graphics as much as the next guy but this just feels forced and that just rubs me the wrong way. It's like when you see an attractive woman in a sluttydress with far too much makeup on. You just want to grab a wet towel and wipe that crap off her face.


Exactly. I love using a joystick for the feeling of immersion I don't get with a mouse and keyboard.

Edit: Apparently the forum censor doesn't like me. Had to adjust this post a couple times to make it readable.

Yeah. Totally agree. It seems that, despite a few graphical improvements, things have not progressed much beyond Novologic's "Tachyon, the Fringe". Granted, I enjoyed it immensely, but:

- I rated it against X-wing [the original]
- it was too short
- the storyline seemed very forced

But there were so many aspects about it that I liked. The problem is, besides graphics, space simulator games [SSG] have not really moved past this at all. They don't have the depth of a good story - it seems like they are always trying to invent a new story and new ships, races, etc.. which means that everything looks similar in-between games. Just compare the videos! how many of you can spot similar hull designs, for a start!

For this reason, I think almost every simulator based off of something that already exists is far better [eg - X-wing is tops in this area as far as I am concerned. Excellent storyline made realistic because they did not have to make it up, and the pilot was not necessarily some all-important character either... he was just some rebel pilot. Also, the huge number of missions did not kill the storyline - whereas the dearth of missions in more modern games usually reveals the weak storyline]

Here is the promo for Tachyon that came out in 2000



Graphics are poorer than represented in the video, [of course] but overall were pretty fair.

Here is the intro to the collectors edition [1993] of W-wing. It represents the gameplay so well even though it is the intro video. I loved X-wing because maneuvers were so relevant. At least once a week I dream of this game being remade - so many missions, practice runs, training, campaigns [player death!!! yay - you better practice before you try this mission etc..]

Edited by Fameth Sathronaveth, 24 April 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[Magnificent Bastard]

Fameth Sathronaveth, on 24 April 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

The problem is, besides graphics, space simulator games [SSG] have not really moved past this at all. They don't have the depth of a good story - it seems like they are always trying to invent a new story and new ships, races, etc.. which means that everything looks similar in-between games. Just compare the videos! how many of you can spot similar hull designs, for a start!

That's why I keep saying that I don't give a **** about storyline. A poor (or poorly implemented) storyline can really kill a good game whereas it seems like most people who enjoy the "space sim" genre enjoy an open-ended or "soap box" style of play. So instead of shaping a game around a specific storyline why not shape it around a universe itself?

Imagine a space game with:

• a huge star map (space needs to feel big)
  
• multiple factions at war with one another - you can join up with one or remain neutral
  
• a rich economy complete with corporations to interact with - various odd jobs (pick up X at location A and take to location B in exchange for $ etc)
  
• space pirates/marauders that harass trade vessels (bounty hunter guild you can join to recieve endless missions to hunt down and kill pirates - or join a pirate faction and recieve missions to attack specific traders etc)
  
• And absolutely NO STORYLINE. Everything the player does has minimal effect on the universe as a whole. But most missions are repeatable in the sense that they randomly generate traget systems, ships, and deadlines.

That might surprise some people but I say it is more fun to jump into a realistic world and make your own damn storyline as you go. And I hate games that make your character some sort of central figure in some kind of huge conflict. I'd rather be some nobody space captain that no one gives a **** about and I just have to make my way in the harsh reality of space.

Edited by Magnificent Bastard, 24 April 2012 - 03:02 PM.