http://ncix.com/prod...ar&promoid=1201
and
http://ncix.com/prod...te&promoid=1230
Are the two 560 Ti cards available from the place I am ordering. One of them is 199.00 (assuming this is the 384)
1
Mason Grimms "Reaper" Desktop Build (This is what I ended up with)
Started by Mason Grimm, Apr 24 2012 12:56 PM
116 replies to this topic
#42
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:06 AM
Mason Grimm, on 25 April 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:
Ok I think ya'll are missing the point... It's between the TWO CARDS MENTIONED.
If I'm gonna go Intel I'll mate it with nVidia. If I was gonna go AMD I'd mate that with ATI
If I'm gonna go Intel I'll mate it with nVidia. If I was gonna go AMD I'd mate that with ATI
Wait... wha...? But... I don't even... The brand of the CPU doesn't make a difference in GPU performance. You could mix Intel and AMD, Intel and Nvidia, Nvidia and AMD; it makes no difference.
It's your decision, but I'd really urge you not to buy a card because of the logo that comes on the box. You should shop for price, performance, and maybe TDP if you're power-conscious, without heed to anything else, unless you need a special feature from one of the two brands (but you're not interested in either 3D or Eyefinity I take it, right?)
DV^McKenna, on 25 April 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:
True, but i think people are just trying to give you better advice. What people have said above is correct there is no point going above a I5 2500k for gaming, you will see next to no return.
The money you save here can go towards the 448 core 560 Ti
I really would encourage you to pick up the 448 over the 384.
This is absolutely correct. Right now, the i5 2500k is every bit as good in gaming as any of the i7 models. You'll see zero return in gaming performance getting anything more expensive than the 2500k. If hardcore rendering or something similar is being done then sure, the hyperthreading will come in handy, but otherwise? No.
If it has to be an Nvidia card, use the saved money, get a Core-448 560TI, instead of the 384 version.
And yes, we really are just trying to give good advice; you've got a whole forum of tech people here for a reason!
(I know I certainly wouldn't build without taking some outside advice)
Edited by Catamount, 25 April 2012 - 08:08 AM.
#43
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:12 AM
Its been my experience when I've mated the ATI and AMD I've NEVER had a problem and with Intel and nVidian I've NEVER had a problem. When I tried to mix and match things went all screwy on me. Call me superstitious but it works and I'll stick with the formula.
The reason I was thinking i7 was because of future upgrades. The processor isn't just powerful NOW but it will also be pretty decent THEN too. While I may have to upgrade the card sometime in the future the rest of the machine will still be pretty decent
The reason I was thinking i7 was because of future upgrades. The processor isn't just powerful NOW but it will also be pretty decent THEN too. While I may have to upgrade the card sometime in the future the rest of the machine will still be pretty decent
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:22 AM
My Gigabyte 560 TI SOC runs like a dream
#45
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:24 AM
Mason Grimm, on 25 April 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:
http://ncix.com/prod...ar&promoid=1201
and
http://ncix.com/prod...te&promoid=1230
Are the two 560 Ti cards available from the place I am ordering. One of them is 199.00 (assuming this is the 384)
and
http://ncix.com/prod...te&promoid=1230
Are the two 560 Ti cards available from the place I am ordering. One of them is 199.00 (assuming this is the 384)
The MSI card first link is a 448 version and really is the one you want
Mason Grimm, on 25 April 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:
Its been my experience when I've mated the ATI and AMD I've NEVER had a problem and with Intel and nVidian I've NEVER had a problem. When I tried to mix and match things went all screwy on me. Call me superstitious but it works and I'll stick with the formula.
The reason I was thinking i7 was because of future upgrades. The processor isn't just powerful NOW but it will also be pretty decent THEN too. While I may have to upgrade the card sometime in the future the rest of the machine will still be pretty decent
The reason I was thinking i7 was because of future upgrades. The processor isn't just powerful NOW but it will also be pretty decent THEN too. While I may have to upgrade the card sometime in the future the rest of the machine will still be pretty decent
You should be able to mix and match without issues, but i can understand your superstitions
.What i think we are trying to say in regards to the I7, if you machine is primarily a gaming machine then you will see no further longevity with the I7 than the I5.
The i5 scores better in gaming, and in 4/5/6/ years time if the I5 cant run it, the I7 wont either.
Both are Socket 1155 CPU's and will expire at the same time more or less.
#46
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:28 AM
Well here's my take on the i5 vs i7
Sooner or later, something on that system won't be powerful enough. It's just a question of what, and when.
Let's address when, first. Moore's Law is basically dead, performance increases get more incremental with every generation (to the point that I'm even sure the Ivy Bridge performance increase is big enough to even call an increase! It's often like 4-5%!). So anything you get will last a long time. So first, focus on what'll give you the best experience now, since we should all be able to put off upgrades for awhile. I'm still running a 2 year old rig with two 5770s and an old Phenom II X4 965, and I have no plans to upgrade. Two years is my major refit cycle; I've always replaced the GPUs every two years, and the system as a whole every four. Since the beginning of 2006, that's worked out well, except now I'm not buying new GPUs, because the performance/price differences don't warrant it, and because two 5770s are still fast enough for good settings and framerates at 1080P (high on most games). In another two years, I may not replace the whole system. I'll play it by ear.
So the first thing I would say is build the system you want to play on now. With that in mind, you won't ever notice the i5-i7 difference (because there won't be one), but a 384 core 560 and a 448 core 560 might be the difference between medium-high settings and high settings, and further down the road, maybe between medium and high. That difference is bigger than no difference, imo.
So in that sense, I'd say GPU first, CPU second. That's usually standard building doctrine for gamers anyways.
Secondly, right now, GPU requirements are growing faster than CPU requirements still, even if neither is growing that fast. You can still run almost any game out there wonderfully on a good Core 2, but you could not run any game wonderfully on a Geforce 9800.
So that also says favor GPU over the CPU.
Lastly, regardless of what needs to be replaced first (even though putting more into the GPU should be a better idea all around), you can replace a CPU fairly easily anyways. Sure, you need to replace $1 in thermal grease, and clean the heat sink (91% alcohol and a coffee filter; all it takes ), but you're talking 15 minutes of work once the computer is open instead of 3 minutes of work. Five times nothing is still nothing! 
Anyways, that's my 2 cents. Take it anyway you like, in American or Canadian money
Sooner or later, something on that system won't be powerful enough. It's just a question of what, and when.
Let's address when, first. Moore's Law is basically dead, performance increases get more incremental with every generation (to the point that I'm even sure the Ivy Bridge performance increase is big enough to even call an increase! It's often like 4-5%!). So anything you get will last a long time. So first, focus on what'll give you the best experience now, since we should all be able to put off upgrades for awhile. I'm still running a 2 year old rig with two 5770s and an old Phenom II X4 965, and I have no plans to upgrade. Two years is my major refit cycle; I've always replaced the GPUs every two years, and the system as a whole every four. Since the beginning of 2006, that's worked out well, except now I'm not buying new GPUs, because the performance/price differences don't warrant it, and because two 5770s are still fast enough for good settings and framerates at 1080P (high on most games). In another two years, I may not replace the whole system. I'll play it by ear.
So the first thing I would say is build the system you want to play on now. With that in mind, you won't ever notice the i5-i7 difference (because there won't be one), but a 384 core 560 and a 448 core 560 might be the difference between medium-high settings and high settings, and further down the road, maybe between medium and high. That difference is bigger than no difference, imo.
So in that sense, I'd say GPU first, CPU second. That's usually standard building doctrine for gamers anyways.
Secondly, right now, GPU requirements are growing faster than CPU requirements still, even if neither is growing that fast. You can still run almost any game out there wonderfully on a good Core 2, but you could not run any game wonderfully on a Geforce 9800.
So that also says favor GPU over the CPU.
Lastly, regardless of what needs to be replaced first (even though putting more into the GPU should be a better idea all around), you can replace a CPU fairly easily anyways. Sure, you need to replace $1 in thermal grease, and clean the heat sink (91% alcohol and a coffee filter; all it takes
), but you're talking 15 minutes of work once the computer is open instead of 3 minutes of work. Five times nothing is still nothing! Anyways, that's my 2 cents. Take it anyway you like, in American or Canadian money
Edited by Catamount, 25 April 2012 - 08:31 AM.
#47
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:40 AM
Also Mason, there's another consideration that I'd urge here.
Even if you could fit the i7-2600k and the more expensive 560 in there (the ~$299 one you linked), the $100 you save by getting the i5 2500k is enough to get you an SSD.
I know, I know, storage is usually last consideration, but you're talking night and day differences in the every-day use of your computer. Starting up faster, being able to use the computer right away and having programs launch as you click on them, rather than having to wait, it's great. In games, it's an even more amazing difference sometimes.
In Battlefield 3, it's the difference between twiddling your thumbs for 5 minutes for loading, or being in in 30 seconds (and the game is more stable on an SSD in many cases, no don't ask why, but it's not just me! I could have other forum members attest to this!). Loading matches, zoning in MMOs, there are cases you encounter surprisingly often where an SSD is just fantastic to have.
So even if you can afford the $299 560TI (448 Core), and the i7, I'd say drop the i7 still, and use the money saved to get this:
http://ncix.com/prod...ed&promoid=1035
That's enough for your OS, programs, and your most important games, and you won't regret it for an instant, I promise you.
Even if you could fit the i7-2600k and the more expensive 560 in there (the ~$299 one you linked), the $100 you save by getting the i5 2500k is enough to get you an SSD.
I know, I know, storage is usually last consideration, but you're talking night and day differences in the every-day use of your computer. Starting up faster, being able to use the computer right away and having programs launch as you click on them, rather than having to wait, it's great. In games, it's an even more amazing difference sometimes.
In Battlefield 3, it's the difference between twiddling your thumbs for 5 minutes for loading, or being in in 30 seconds (and the game is more stable on an SSD in many cases, no don't ask why, but it's not just me! I could have other forum members attest to this!). Loading matches, zoning in MMOs, there are cases you encounter surprisingly often where an SSD is just fantastic to have.
So even if you can afford the $299 560TI (448 Core), and the i7, I'd say drop the i7 still, and use the money saved to get this:
http://ncix.com/prod...ed&promoid=1035
That's enough for your OS, programs, and your most important games, and you won't regret it for an instant, I promise you.
#48
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:43 AM
Mason Grimm, on 25 April 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:
Its been my experience when I've mated the ATI and AMD I've NEVER had a problem and with Intel and nVidian I've NEVER had a problem. When I tried to mix and match things went all screwy on me. Call me superstitious but it works and I'll stick with the formula.
The reason I was thinking i7 was because of future upgrades. The processor isn't just powerful NOW but it will also be pretty decent THEN too. While I may have to upgrade the card sometime in the future the rest of the machine will still be pretty decent
The reason I was thinking i7 was because of future upgrades. The processor isn't just powerful NOW but it will also be pretty decent THEN too. While I may have to upgrade the card sometime in the future the rest of the machine will still be pretty decent
Which I must say is somewhat odd, as AMD originally planned to partner with Nvidia, but was turned down and bought ATI instead. That aside, price / performance does go to AMD GPU's at the moment, and outside of a few people's personal reports, have never read any official reviews as having compatibility issues with AMD cards on an Intel motherboard, however if you will only go with Nvidia GPU's for this build, and you're limited under $300, then I would say if you can, try to get a used deal off of Techpowerup or Hard OCP or the like, you usually can get a GTX 580 used. If you only are willing to get new cards, you may be able to find a 570ti for just under $300, and more of your budget should be going towards the GPU rather than the CPU if it is primerally a gaming PC. Otherwise, if you're at the lower end, a 560ti 448 is your next step down, and is basically a crippled 570. Still quite a bit better than the basic 560 though.
Also, $299 GTX 570 (should be the same price at newegg CA; http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130620
Edited by Vulpesveritas, 25 April 2012 - 08:45 AM.
#49
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:49 AM
I have a GTX550Ti. Runs everything great EXCEPT BF3. BSOD after a couple hours of play - secondary processor not responding in alotted timeframe - you know, that old chestnut.
I've been told this is either a heat issue or a Bios issue; bios is up to date, so...
I've been told this is either a heat issue or a Bios issue; bios is up to date, so...
#50
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:58 AM
Vulpes has a point, you could also get a 570; here's the CA version of what he linked
http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16814130620
Unless, of course, you planned on using the $30 rebate on the Core448 560 (which makes it 269 instead of 299), in which case, that's still a good deal.
http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16814130620
Unless, of course, you planned on using the $30 rebate on the Core448 560 (which makes it 269 instead of 299), in which case, that's still a good deal.
#51
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:03 AM
Dude, get ASUS 560 Ti she is a beauty. Runs cool about 65c if you dont mind heat, and 55c if you dont mind noice. 40c MAX at idle. Good oc ability. Best gfx very cheap money can buy.
#52
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:08 AM
Brutallica, on 25 April 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:
Dude, get ASUS 560 Ti she is a beauty. Runs cool about 65c if you dont mind heat, and 55c if you dont mind noice. 40c MAX at idle. Good oc ability. Best gfx very cheap money can buy.
While the Asus Direct CU / II coolers are nice, the EVGA cards are the highest quality Nvidia boards hands down. Zotac I would say is in second place. Asus is okay, but there has been a lot of quality control issues with their coolers lately, especially on highter end boards.
#53
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:50 AM
Ok, I've decided to do this in stages... Better quality stuff and not as much of a hit all at once...
I'm taking your advice on the GPU so here we go...
Tower: Corsair Carbide Series 400R Mid-Tower Case ATX 4X5.25 6X3.5INT USB 1394 No PS
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro GEN3 Z68 LGA1155 ATX 3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2 PCI B3 Motherboard
Ram: Patriot Viper Xtreme 8GB 2X4GB DDR3 1866MHZ PC3-15000 9-11-9-27 1.65V XMP Ready Desktop Memory Kit
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K Quad Core Unlocked Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155 3.4GHZ Sandy Bridge 8MB
Powersupply: Corsair TX750 V2 750W ATX 12V Single Rail 60A 24PIN ATX Power Supply Active PFC 80PLUS Bronze
GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 560 Ti 448 Twin Frozr III OC Power Edition 750MHZ 1280MB Dual DVI PCI-E Video Card
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA3 6GB/S 7200RPM 64MB Cache 3.5IN Dual Proc Hard Drive OEM
DVD: LG GH24LS70 24X SATA Lightscribe Internal DVD Writer Burner DVDRW Optical Drive Black OEM
KEYBOARD: Azio Levetron KB588U Mech4 Mechanical Programmable Water Resistant USB Gaming Keyboard
STICK: Thrustmaster T Flight HOTAS X http://www.thrustmas...en_US/node/1343
I'm taking your advice on the GPU so here we go...
Quote
Tower: Corsair Carbide Series 400R Mid-Tower Case ATX 4X5.25 6X3.5INT USB 1394 No PS
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V Pro GEN3 Z68 LGA1155 ATX 3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2 PCI B3 Motherboard
Ram: Patriot Viper Xtreme 8GB 2X4GB DDR3 1866MHZ PC3-15000 9-11-9-27 1.65V XMP Ready Desktop Memory Kit
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600K Quad Core Unlocked Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155 3.4GHZ Sandy Bridge 8MB
Powersupply: Corsair TX750 V2 750W ATX 12V Single Rail 60A 24PIN ATX Power Supply Active PFC 80PLUS Bronze
GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 560 Ti 448 Twin Frozr III OC Power Edition 750MHZ 1280MB Dual DVI PCI-E Video Card
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA3 6GB/S 7200RPM 64MB Cache 3.5IN Dual Proc Hard Drive OEM
DVD: LG GH24LS70 24X SATA Lightscribe Internal DVD Writer Burner DVDRW Optical Drive Black OEM
KEYBOARD: Azio Levetron KB588U Mech4 Mechanical Programmable Water Resistant USB Gaming Keyboard
STICK: Thrustmaster T Flight HOTAS X http://www.thrustmas...en_US/node/1343
#54
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:52 AM
Mason Grimm, on 24 April 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:
So... Here is my question...
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 560 Ti or EVGA GeForce GTX 480
They are around 20$ difference in price (the 560 Ti is a little more expensive) but I've heard a few things based on the few reviews I could find.
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 560 Ti or EVGA GeForce GTX 480
They are around 20$ difference in price (the 560 Ti is a little more expensive) but I've heard a few things based on the few reviews I could find.
- 480 is more stable
- 560 runs really (REALLY) hot and sounds like a jet turbine
I have the EVGA 560Ti and it does not run hot. Also, the EVGA Precision monitoring software ramps the fan speed up or down depending on the temps. It has never in all the many hours of gaming I've played, spun the fan up to full speed and I have it set to do so 5 degrees sooner than the defaults. That being said, I've turned it up manually to full speed and it's loud and I wouldn't want the card if it ran there all the time.
Probably one of the reasons though my PC does not run hot is that I have a gigantic full tower coolermaster case (lots of hard drives) with 5X120mm fans that run very slow, so it's quiet and very cool. If you have a small case with ventilation issues, your GPU fan might have to run full speed to make up for the poor circulation and that's something to think about.
I just built a friend of mine a quad core intel sli system with the Antec Nine Hundred Case and his system runs nice and cool so that means that it runs quiet. If your fans are having to run at high RPM's, you need a different case.
I am ordering my second EVGA 560ti actually today to set them up as SLI and have never had any crash issues or anything, but I run 32 bit because there are too many stability issues with 64 bit still with all the stuff I do on my machine. (photographer and CAD/CAM)
I would get the Antec case over that Corsair. I will run much cooler and it is quiet too. The Antec has 3x120 mm fans and 1x200 mm fan that run slowly so their quiet and they do a great job.
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811129021
They don't make my case anymore, but this is the closest to it and it is sweet
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811119225
Also, I would recommend PC Power and Cooling power supplies, they're very very good and have 7 year warranty
Edited by Cochise, 25 April 2012 - 12:07 PM.
#55
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:54 PM
Mason Grimm, on 25 April 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:
Ok, I've decided to do this in stages... Better quality stuff and not as much of a hit all at once...
I'm taking your advice on the GPU so here we go...
I'm taking your advice on the GPU so here we go...
This is becoming a tech support overload. But everyone wants to help.
Thats a decent enought rig youve posted out there bound to last about 4-5 years if not more would be my guess looking at the current situation in gaming and the hardware industry.
At the end of the day its your PC so buy whatever makes you happy.
#56
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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:11 PM
Personally, I use 2 560 ti's in sli. The only time they have failed me is... today actually. Had to use my backup gt 430 to respond to this post. Other than that, The 560 ti is better than the 480. I do not know where you found them at such a close price though.
#57
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:12 PM
Need some snap help (I have an hour)
Which would you choose?
MSI GeForce GTX 560 Ti 448 Twin Frozr III OC Power Edition 750MHZ 1280MB Dual DVI PCI-E Video Card (299.00 and backordered)
or
EVGA GeForce GTX 560 Ti 448 Cores FTW 797MHZ 1280MB DVI Mini-HDMI Display Port PCI-E Video Card (269.00 and available today)
Apparently the EVGA runs hotter cause of the faster clock speed?
Which would you choose?
MSI GeForce GTX 560 Ti 448 Twin Frozr III OC Power Edition 750MHZ 1280MB Dual DVI PCI-E Video Card (299.00 and backordered)
or
EVGA GeForce GTX 560 Ti 448 Cores FTW 797MHZ 1280MB DVI Mini-HDMI Display Port PCI-E Video Card (269.00 and available today)
Apparently the EVGA runs hotter cause of the faster clock speed?
#58
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:20 PM
I have always brought MSI never had an issue, and out of the two thats what i would buy.
Reality you probably wont notice a substantial difference between the two.
Reality you probably wont notice a substantial difference between the two.
#59
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:23 PM
Corsair Carbide Series 400R Mid-Tower Case ... Heat really an issue here?
EVGA... More clocks less expensive.
Would the Marauder worry about a little extra heat?
EVGA... More clocks less expensive.
Would the Marauder worry about a little extra heat?
#60
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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:28 PM
EVGA all the way. They're debateably the highest quality video card manufacturer out there, and let's put it this way. I'm a AMD fanboy and I would consider an EVGA card.
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