2926 replies to this topic

[Prezimonto]

To keep it without splitting the community here's how I would implement it after playing in the test:

I would like to see 3PV added as a free module. You can swap between 1st and 3rd given the current limitations on 3pv.
If you have a new account the drone glows green and can't be destroyed.
If you have an account over a month or two old(or that has accumulated say 20 hours of playtime) the drone glows red and can be destroyed just like a UAV.

If it has these limitations I think it would be fine to add it to the game without splitting the community.
1) It would give a free low to middle end module for new players to toy with and to help learn the game.

2) It would then be a trade off for the more competitive player to choose to have that view over other module based advantages. And after playing with it, I can see how I might choose it given certain roles (a close in brawler with no jj or a scout with 3 or more slots) but on many of my mechs I'd rather have other modules.

3) For any older account it's then a risk reward to use it sparingly in the match so it won't be destroyed and it can give away your position.

Edited by Prezimonto, 02 August 2013 - 02:29 PM.

[Hotthedd]

Prezimonto, on 02 August 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

To keep it without splitting the community here's how I would implement it after playing in the test:

I would like to see 3PV added as a free module. You can swap between 1st and 3rd given the current limitations on 3pv.
If you have a new account the drone glows green and can't be destroyed.
If you have an account over a month or two old(or that has accumulated say 20 hours of playtime) the drone glows red and can be destroyed just like a UAV.

If it has these limitations I think it would be fine to add it to the game without splitting the community.
1) It would give a free low to middle end module for new players to toy with and to help learn the game.

2) It would then be a trade off for the more competitive player to choose to have that view over other module based advantages. And after playing with it, I can see how I might choose it given certain roles (a close in brawler with no jj or a scout with 3 or more slots) but on many of my mechs I'd rather have other modules.

3) For any older account it's then a risk reward to use it sparingly in the match so it won't be destroyed and it can give away your position.

As much as I can appreciate where you are coming from, and offering a solution, I am afraid that is not a good enough compromise for me, personally.
The day the queues are merged is the day I uninstall. Too many other games out there that have not lost my trust.

[Maethos]

DirePhoenix, on 02 August 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

The concern is that it will split the playerbase. If you have a mode that is "only 1st-person" and a mode that is not, then the pool of available players is smaller. Smaller pool of available players means less impact of CW (Even if it is just Mercs) and stale gameplay since it will end up being the same small group of people fighting with/against each other constantly.

In previous MW games, the only way you could get a forced 1PV only game was to hunt down a specific server, which was difficult and did not offer the variety or quantity of players to make games interesting. In order to get matches you pretty much had to settle for 3rd person because you'd be stupid not to take the advantages that view inherently offers against other players when they would have that same advantage over you if you were stuck inside your cockpit.

And that is why we rant. We care about this franchise, and have experienced these missteps before. We don't want to see those same mistakes made again.

I would also like to add that pgi had sold many of us on their word of being a 1pv not a 3pv arcade, so the fact they say it will be separate que brings little trust.

If 3pv was for training grounds only and when in game video recording is enabled(as stated by pgi) they could have a 3pv recording option. Then people can see their paint jobs and mech melt.

IMO adding a small pve aspect to training missions and/or a few group vs pve drops would bring more players to base and do far better in polling then 3pv. Also no reward for pve missions so all grinding is in pvp, but would allow all mechs owned to be able to do pve. 3pv is bad idea when it comes to a joint drop and hope it never happens,

Maethos

[Mr Everything]

Hotthedd, on 02 August 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

The day the queues are merged is the day I uninstall.

Uhh A Threat... Scary

[Battlefinger]

I was never a fan of the idea of adding third person view, but I am in most games a fan of 3pv in general. I like being able to see my character, and as someone said just a few posts before me, it feels more cinematic and dramatic. I found in the cockpit view I didn't really feel all that much immersion anyway, I didn't feel at all like I was in a big stompy robot and everything felt like it just moved way too slow. But Since testing 3rd person, you can see your mech hulking around and not only do you get to see yourself being a badass, you feel more badass because you can see each stompy step you take.

Now, I understand all the inherent problems of adding 3pv to a 1pv game. Peeking around corners in 1pv was a death sentence in MW4. But this hasn't been implemented identical to MW4. There are lots of advantages to playing in 1pv, and lots of disadvantages to 3pv.

3pv gets no radar (I think most other hud elements also need to be removed, they should be in the cockpit and we should need our view to be in the cockpit to see them.). 3pv is FAR more difficult to aim with. 3pv has no separate arm movement. 1pv gets a better zoom than 3pv. And the biggest one of all, the HUGE BLINKING FLOATING BEACON ABOVE YOUR HEAD that alerts every enemy to your presence. You are going to know if someone is peeking with 3pv because you will be able to see their drone. If they can see you, you can see their drone. And the drone has a high-visibility blinking light on it at all times. As long as they add the ability to shoot it down, it should be fine.

[Grey Rabbit]

Maethos, on 02 August 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I would also like to add that pgi had sold many of us on their word of being a 1pv not a 3pv arcade, so the fact they say it will be separate que brings little trust.

But they didn't... I'm pretty sure that people read into the statement that they weren't going to put it in without finding a way to balance it, which they have by splitting the player base. You guys heard what you wanted to. If they did and I missed it, It's technically not even out of open beta, there are no promises. That's why they don't announce anything any more, any comment sends the community speculating and then into a frothing rage.

I mentioned that the split community may be a problem in my post, that I can see.

This is the part I don't understand. As far as it being arcade-like, that's an opinion. The game will play the same, but with a different view to enjoy. If you're in a match and no one in it is playing in 3PV, then it doesn't affect your fun. Someone else in another 3PV match is having their fun their way. Good for you. Good for them. What's the problem with that?

-Rabbit

[Gremlich Johns]

DirePhoenix, on 02 August 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Also, a game's forums are rarely ever a good representation of the actual playerbase of the game.

You, Sir, are not in the forum for a regular game. You know nothing about the actual player base.

This version of the 3PV will be the death knell for MW:O. If it is implemented as is (seen on carrioncrow's video) the game will die in less than 1.5 years.

Unless zoom and weapons accuracy is hampered to the point of being useless to the point of only being useful for the maledroits to master torso twist, the hardcore player base, the much larger portion of MW:O, will abandon the game over the next couple of months.

[Prezimonto]

I guess I don't see what the hugh and crye is all about after playing with it. It's not that great, and if the little camera bot was able to be shot down it's not even a huge deal as its largest utility is for scouting corners, which still has a chance to give away your position.

As implemented you trade map awareness and target awareness(where to put pin point damage) for a tight tactical awareness. It's certainly not over powered compared to the information you get from seismic, but it is graphically more appealing and it is easier to see where your mech is going and why, again despite the outcry otherwise.

[Gremlich Johns]

Prezimonto, on 02 August 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

I guess I don't see what the hugh and crye is all about after playing with it. It's not that great, and if the little camera bot was able to be shot down it's not even a huge deal as its largest utility is for scouting corners, which still has a chance to give away your position.

As implemented you trade map awareness and target awareness(where to put pin point damage) for a tight tactical awareness. It's certainly not over powered compared to the information you get from seismic, but it is graphically more appealing and it is easier to see where your mech is going and why, again despite the outcry otherwise.

How uncoordinated does one have to be to find any version of 3PV useful? I find seismic fairly useless - the users die regardless. And if you need 3PV to find the game graphically appealing, you're easily entertained.

[Grey Rabbit]

Gremlich Johns, on 02 August 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

And if you need 3PV to find the game graphically appealing, you're easily entertained.

Sometimes, yeah.

[Prezimonto]

Hey, thanks for posting a cheap shot against a completely benign side point. I always enjoy when people ignore the main thrust and evidence presented for an idea with a personal attack.

[Hotthedd]

Mr Everything, on 02 August 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Uhh A Threat... Scary

I apologize if you feel threatened by my statement. Many other players share my sentiment, and many players (former players) have already uninstalled over issues like this one (the Coolant lie).

If you need clarification, mixing the 1PV and 3PV queues will merely be the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Maethos]

Grey Rabbit, on 02 August 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

But they didn't... I'm pretty sure that people read into the statement that they weren't going to put it in without finding a way to balance it, which they have by splitting the player base. You guys heard what you wanted to. If they did and I missed it, It's technically not even out of open beta, there are no promises. That's why they don't announce anything any more, any comment sends the community speculating and then into a frothing rage.

I mentioned that the split community may be a problem in my post, that I can see.

This is the part I don't understand. As far as it being arcade-like, that's an opinion. The game will play the same, but with a different view to enjoy. If you're in a match and no one in it is playing in 3PV, then it doesn't affect your fun. Someone else in another 3PV match is having their fun their way. Good for you. Good for them. What's the problem with that?

-Rabbit

The game will not play the same and the concern is that it will end up being a combined que and will affect me. to address how it will not be the same, here's a quick example.

Once collision is added back in, all you need to do is setup your dragon speed and alpha. Then in 3pv just run around knock mechs over and at point blank range no need to aim. Add melee weapons(whenever that happens) and you now have rock'em sock'em robots video game(i know dating myself as older).

I know you think it will be 1 que for 1pv and 1 for 3pv and in that way it shouldn't be a problem. I do not believe that will happen and is why I am against 3pv. I have been a beta tester from the 80s on and feel like most that have posted against 3pv that it will be combined into a single que and advantage to 3pv. Its simple really we already see many copied builds and flavor of the month mech/weapons and with the less skill in running up and high alpha, knock over and finish with a second alpha is too easy for a lot of player to pass up.

Imo thats how it will go, could be way off, dead on or only half right, but still is what I believe. Will continue to support game spend money and hope things will come out ok. I did not go looking for old post and pod cast to find if they did or did not say it will be 1pv sim and not a 3pv so can't address that part outside of it was my understanding and to lazy to look it up now. We do need more of player base and would like to see something to bring community together like voip finished,better chat feature lobby etc. before even tossing this 3pv question around.
Happy hunting All
Maethos

[Grey Rabbit]

I did some searches for facts.

Here's the non-promise.
http://mwomercs.com/...is-when-needed/

This has the rules for who matches against who.
http://mwomercs.com/...095-3rd-person/

Official launch is coming. We need to be loading various load outs to provide the numbers on the weapons for balance purposes. There's a new map full of bugs that needs testing. We need to help them by providing demographs to make the match maker better. We even need to make sure 3PV works as intended, whether we like it or not. Those are right now things.

Eventually, maybe, perhaps, someday the queues may be combined. I seriously doubt that any official-type matches will allow 3PV, though it's always possible. By then there'll be lobbies for like minded friends. That's a future thing. We should keep it in mind, but that has no bearing on right now or even when 3PV first comes out. If we can focus on making the game better and on keeping players than maybe the queues will stay strong which will allow the two player bases to be able to stay separate.

[DaStoffel]

Best maybe i have read since i started playing. the 3rd person view will complete this game so good. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing my big *** mech and watching those AC/Gauss/Lasers go off. Don't get me wrong the 1e person has a feeling. But like in so manny other games i played, the 3rd person view is a MUST have.

[Alik Kerensky]

At this point I don't give one wet loogie since PGI has long since told us they really don't care what we think about 3pv... I won't play with people using this crap and as long as I still have this option I'll still play... take that away and I'll move the rest of my money to something else.

PS: wasting time creating crap like this and a whole slew of new potential problems instead of fixing problems already present is really stupid, but I'm figuring someone already knows that an just doesn't care.

[redacted]

Really?

Edited by Alik Kerensky, 04 August 2013 - 11:13 AM.
discussing mods action - please review coc

[Chrithu]

Belorion, on 02 August 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

They make me nauseous. As it is MWO is on the edge. I think its primarily from the bouncing view that some games have, but even without the bouncing view sometimes I have trouble with Forest Colony Snow if I am in a fast mech.

I see. I can definetly relate to that. I get similar problems, when head bobbing and motion blur get overused in First Person Shooters. Luckily in most good game those graphic effects can be switched off.

But actually this supports my point that almost noone disregards a game because of the actual viewpoint (sometimes even if they say so). In your case it is commonly used graphical effects that are often used in FPSs and have an impact on your health that makes FPSs a no go for you in general. But you'd suffer from the same problems if those effects were applied in third person view aswell, hence your problem isn't the actual perspective.

This problem and similar ones fall more into the broad field of "Look and Feel" I referenced in my earlier post than into the rather narrow question of perspective.

In conclusion at least for me, the argument that 3rd person can draw in new players remains unproven and thus invalid until I see independent surveys that actually support the assumptions that the mere question of first person or third person is a high priority decision making factor on wether a gamer plays a game or not for a significant number of people.

[SinJinn]

I'm going to put a copy of this comment over here in hopes that it gets noticed.

Ok, I have seen it now and understand people's concerns. A field of vision like this is such an extreme advantage that anyone playing from 1PV would suffer for playing the game as it was intended to be played.

It is very pretty and should be offered but at an extreme cost to the pilot. People in 3PV get zero information. No heat, targeting, mini map, compass, weapons, paperdoll.... all but cross hairs are gone.

If you want info... get in your bloody mech and pilot it from the cockpit where your displays are!

**Suggestion: make having "limited" display info in 3PV a function of weight bearing scout exclusive and command modules. ***

[Prezimonto]

It's actually a pretty severe limitation in other other ways. In some other threads I've see people suggesting a cool down timer on launches/regather to prevent periscope scouting. If you had to wait 5 seconds before switching between modes it would go a long, long way to making it balanced, as you couldn't hop between 3PV and 1PV at will. At the least it would highly curtail the jump sniping as any mech standing in place for 5 seconds deserves to get popped.

[Mars Wong]

They could add an extra part of the HUD/overlay that displayed a representation of your mech in a small window. If you only displayed the mech animations and not its physical surroundings it would appeal to the players who love the appearance of their customized mech, and to the "hardcore" competitive type, I belonging to both categories
//M4R5_W0N6