336 replies to this topic

[Haxburch]

Yea ... **** ! I dont play streakcat because ths are boring ... but streakcat is no danger at last u can hit her and kill her .

BUT NERF the dam jenners wich kill the hole gamefun with lagshield and OP speed ******** ! With much to much damage for a ligth Mech .

SSRM its the ongly wapon wich helps u agianst this little cheaters ... !!! Buff SSRM with spezial dmg against Jenners , make 2x damage pls !

BUFF SSRM !!!

Edited by Haxburch, 24 November 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[Mims]

Im scared of 100% percent for 1 reason. what will happen when ssrm6's come out? you know exactly what will happen, OPness. You can bet all your mc on me, dropping a fat engine in my CN9-A with 3 ssrm6's. Being a super scout killer, droping lights in 3-4 volleys that cannot be doged even by lag shield. To that end, i say once again that the mechanics of SSRMS should be redone. So is this whineing? No. this is me telling you that if the current system is not changed, i will end up abusing it in the future.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

Going to keep running an OP streak cat until they nerf it. Right now it's ez mode and racks in the credits to boot.

LRM's are OP now too. Just nobody is running them in bulk atm.

[Kremator1968]

To all those whiners IN EVERY THREAD.... please uninstall as you clearly haven't a clue how to use strategy !

[warp103]

Mims, on 24 November 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

Im scared of 100% percent for 1 reason. what will happen when ssrm6's come out? you know exactly what will happen, OPness. You can bet all your mc on me, dropping a fat engine in my CN9-A with 3 ssrm6's. Being a super scout killer, droping lights in 3-4 volleys that cannot be doged even by lag shield. To that end, i say once again that the mechanics of SSRMS should be redone. So is this whineing? No. this is me telling you that if the current system is not changed, i will end up abusing it in the future.

So you do not want jenny up you but and want to nerf the thing that counters jennys lol.SSRM is simple if you are out of it range is big a s s target. I have a Cat and I have ssrm, I get more kills with the mpl after the ssrm damages them. WHY because it take time to retarget were i hit them with mpl and BOOM. lol
So to all ez to kill a streak boat stay out of 270,have ams which works on SSrm {dev has show and said so},use damn cover ssrm will have to reacquire target lock{fire at him while he is}. Stop wining about something tha has to be in your face to kill you. Any mech boat of any type can do that a longer range.I will name a feww AC2 boat, gauss boat, ppc boat, lrm boat, laser boat. need i name more??

[Charles Seneca]

@Dimento Graven: This is my last post on this subject.

Dimento Graven, on 24 November 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

It is absolutely stupid to think that having tons of missles impacting you, and having the high explosive contents of those missles blowing tons of armor of your 'mech wouldn't result in cockpit shake. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

No, it's not wrong, and I don't get that from your quote. What I understood from that quote was that once all the whiney little pansy pilots get used to the shake, they'll be less apt to panic and will be able to handle themselves a bit better by either getting away from the attacker, or fighting back. Again, the shake rattles you, it might disorient you a bit, but where your target reticle was pointing before, it's still pointing there, your weapons will still fire, you can still drive your 'mech, all it does is blur your vision...

...Cockpit shake from being hit by high velocity, exploding masses, is one of those things that should be included for an immersive sim.

The problem is EXCESSIVE cockpit shake - as I made clear in my post which you quoted. I would not want to see cockpit shake taken out the game completely.

Excessive cockpit shake is WRONG. I will quote what the dev said one more time and explain it for you in language you can hopefully understand

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 22 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Quote

What I'm hoping will be addressed first is the cockpit shake/blur that occurs. I do not know of any TT rules that give penalties to die roles for taking damage last turn and it seems like that's what the effect equates to. Once players are not shell shocked by the constant barrage damage received they will be able to more effectively maneuver away from danger or address the threat head on and take the aggressor out.

The first sentence: cockpit shake/blur will be addressed. The dev is acknowledging it is a problem.

The second sentence: there are apparently no TT rules that cause difficulties in aiming due to damge taken previously, but this is what cockpit shake/blur is effectively causing.

The third sentence: Once the cockpit shake is reduced so that players are no longer shell shocked by it, they will be able to more effectively deal with the threat.

I hope that explains the quote sufficiently. If you still don't understand, perhaps you should go back to school and study English. When the changes are implemented, cockpit shake/blur reduced, you might consider a post in which you acknowledge that I and others were right and you were wrong - I won't hold my breath though.

Edited by Charles Seneca, 26 November 2012 - 05:50 PM.

[Asatruer]

Similarly, and also from the devs:

Garth Erlam, on 26 November 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Q: Modern-day missiles of similar size and function travel between 400-800 kph. Aerospace fighters at the present point in the timeline mount LRMs and fire them at each other with success, but oddly, in MWO a light mech can outrun them completely, and even a mech travelling at 80 kph can dodge some of them simply by moving away from incoming missiles. [Kaijin]
A: BattleTech/MechWarrior do not follow 'real life' rules for many reasons, one of which is that Mechs don't actually make sense as a combat vehicle. Beyond that though, a lot of these choices are for balance, playability, etc. If this game worked like real life you'd be dying to artillery 10 kilometres away, and ships in orbit would just drop rocks on you, nuking entire areas. So basically, it'd be less fun [Garth]

[Dimento Graven]

Charles Seneca, on 26 November 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

The problem is EXCESSIVE cockpit shake - as I made clear in my post which you quoted. I would not want to see cockpit shake taken out the game completely.

Excessive cockpit shake is WRONG. I will quote what the dev said one more time and explain it for you in language you can hopefully understand

Unfortunately for "excessive cockpit shake", the word "excessive" is purely subjective. In your uninformed, nigh ignorant, opinion they are excessive. The problem YOU have is that cockpit shake is cockpit shake. A little blurs, a lot blurs... So what's "excessive"?

You want the first missle to shake you, and the rest ot NOT shake you if the source of the missles is chaining you? That's stupid. You want only a "little" shake per missle? Define "little"...

You can't, it's all subjective. Personally LRMs, SRMs, ACs, gauss, heck even MGs should cause shake, the more you're hit the more shake their should be? Why? Again, it's all a matter of building a proper sim. These explosive masses are delivering the energy of their inertia, a product of the velocity and mass, at your 'mech. At the same time SRMs, and LRMs are also imparting even more energy that results in a minute change to your velocity and direction from the explosives contained in the warhead.

It makes sense.

Sorry that you don't like it and that it bothers you, but the shake should be there, for every missle, warhead, and actual significant mass that strikes your 'mech.

Quote

The first sentence: cockpit shake/blur will be addressed. The dev is acknowledging it is a problem.

Again, I read it differently, but that's due to the ambiguity of his phrasing... Whatever, time will tell I suppose.

Quote

The second sentence: there are apparently no TT rules that cause difficulties in aiming due to damge taken previously, but this is what cockpit shake/blur is effectively causing.

Do I need to reference ALL the various quotes from the producers of this game that let you know that TT rules will NOT rule the production of this game? Allowances have to be made for building a more realistic, immersive, sim? If TT rules were the iron clad, ball clenching, dogma that they adhered to, they're WAY off base on their implementation of "Double Heat Sincs", armor/ton values, hard points, extended range damage capacities, jump jet implmentation, and on, and on, and on, ad nauseum. To point to TT rules as "proof" something you don't like shouldn't be in this game is not even a moot argument, it doesn't even meet the minimum requirements for being debatable. We've been told the TT rules won't be implmented "as is", so not to expect it.

Quote

The third sentence: Once the cockpit shake is reduced so that players are no longer shell shocked by it, they will be able to more effectively deal with the threat.

Again, not what I interpreted. I interpreted that once players got used to the current shake, they'd be able to more effectively deal with it, which, in my own case has so far proven true.

Quote

I hope that explains the quote sufficiently. If you still don't understand, perhaps you should go back to school and study English. When the changes are implemented, cockpit shake/blur reduced, you might consider a post in which you acknowledge that I and others were right and you were wrong - I won't hold my breath though.

I'll put my TWO doctorates against your apparent GED any day bud.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 26 November 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Huh, we're throwing doctorates around in a thread about Streak Missiles? Too bad not everyone is a von Guttenberg, it would be hilarious to see people throwing this around.



Streaks hitting with a 100 % chance is okay, but it should be obvious that this is a significant upgrade from a non-Streak SRM that is essentially a dumb fire rocket in MW:O - an upgrade that is worth much more than the 0.5 tons a Streak hits if there are no other drawbacks. And there aren't. Yet. Require a re-lock after every attack or otherwise lower the rate of fire, and Streaks might be fine. In the Table Top, the 0.5 extra weight didn't buy yo uguaranteed hits every turn with the Streaks. It just bought you a guarantee that you'd never waste a missile on a miss. Which basically meant a lower rate of fire on average, without any drawbacks to your actual damage output compared to the identical SRM. You basically paid 0.5 more tons on the weapon so you could remove 1 ton of ammo.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 27 November 2012 - 02:49 AM.

[Charles Seneca]

Quote

Huh, we're throwing doctorates around in a thread about Streak Missiles? Too bad not everyone is a von Guttenberg, it would be hilarious to see people throwing this around.

Lol. He was obviously referring to doctorates in Arrogance and Egoism, of which he is clearly a master. I just read his post and...
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Slanski]

Exactly: In TT you paid 0.5 extra tons for an advantage in heat development (no wasted shots generating heat). In MWO the streak makes any SRM of equivalent size totally obsolete. 100% hit rate is too good for a weapon system which delivers this much damage. I've thought about this again and SSRM6 under current rules would break the game completely. The cost/benefit ratio for the SSRM2 is already out of whack.

The cockpit shake is the greatest trouble currently and should be strictly proportional to weapon size and mech size.

[Xenok]

Dimento Graven, on 24 November 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

Cockpit shake from being hit by high velocity, exploding masses, is one of those things that should be included for an immersive sim.

Hmmm, A missile that does less than 1/2 of 1 percent damage to the armor (not structure, not internals, armor) of a mech should shake it around? I can hold a fire ******* in my hand that does that kind of damage to my body and only scorch my finger tips. It does not shake me around.

Even a 50 cal landing on an M1 Abrams outer hall simply sounds like a loud thud with no shake at all. Tanks, and if they existed Mechs, are stable land unites that don't get knocked all over because a bunch of (relative to there size) firecrackers go off around it.

Cockpit shake needs to be retaliative to the individual hit damage and the weight of the mech. AC20 is the only weapon that should cause sever cockpit shake, nothing else should blur vision at all. A Gauss would be next up, then PPCs and AC10. An LBX10 should not cause much as they are 10, 1 point hits. Internal systems blowing up, that would cause a lot more shake than anything, likely even the AC20 hit. While it is part of the simulation, it should be a very small part of it.

[Dimento Graven]

Xenok, on 09 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Hmmm, A missile that does less than 1/2 of 1 percent damage to the armor (not structure, not internals, armor) of a mech should shake it around? I can hold a fire ******* in my hand that does that kind of damage to my body and only scorch my finger tips. It does not shake me around.

While holding fire in your hand is one thing, that's not the same thing as say, someone throwing a baseball and hitting you in the head or arm or torso with it. You will shake. Now, get hit by a LOT of baseballs in the head, arms, and torso and see how much you shake.

Your example was bad... Try another.

Quote

Even a 50 cal landing on an M1 Abrams outer hall simply sounds like a loud thud with no shake at all. Tanks, and if they existed Mechs, are stable land unites that don't get knocked all over because a bunch of (relative to there size) firecrackers go off around it.

Again your comparison to the 'firecracker' is flawed. A simple black cat won't do much damage when it's thrown and blows up on your upper torso. It'll sting a bit and burn like a son of a *****, but we're not talking 'fire *******' equivalent weapons here. We're talking 9mm or .50caliber exploding round armorment, and yeah, you get hit in the upper body with those, it'll knock your butt down.

Quote

Cockpit shake needs to be retaliative to the individual hit damage and the weight of the mech. AC20 is the only weapon that should cause sever cockpit shake, nothing else should blur vision at all. A Gauss would be next up, then PPCs and AC10. An LBX10 should not cause much as they are 10, 1 point hits. Internal systems blowing up, that would cause a lot more shake than anything, likely even the AC20 hit. While it is part of the simulation, it should be a very small part of it.

Incorrect, the shake should be equivelant to damage, velocity of the missles, mass of each missle, number of missles striking, weight of 'mech, direction of travel of missles vs direction of travel for 'mech, vs location hit.

Since PPC's are only firing excited protons, there's not much mass, but they will at some point impart an EMP like side affect, so cockpit shake isn't required. In my mind gauss rounds should cause the most shake as I believe they have the highest weight and velocity per round then missles and AC rounds, respectively.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 09 December 2012 - 01:48 PM.

[MavRCK]

Franklen Avignon, on 20 November 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Min/Max'ers destroy game balance.

Yay man! I hate those over-achievers who become.. Like.. Good... Guys who jump from outer space... Land on the moon.. Doctors... Lawyers... Presidents!

That ***** Darwin...

Damn those min-maxers!!

Ban them all!

/sarcasm off

Edited by MavRCK, 09 December 2012 - 05:52 PM.

[MavRCK]

Shake: highest - ac20 - gauss. Medium - ac10. Low - ac5 next to none - ac2 , each missile
.. Can they be cumulative as to the damage done? None - energy, machine guns.

[RFMarine]

Dimento Graven, on 09 December 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Since PPC's are only firing excited protons, there's not much mass, but they will at some point impart an EMP like side affect, so cockpit shake isn't required. In my mind gauss rounds should cause the most shake as I believe they have the highest weight and velocity per round then missles and AC rounds, respectively.

you could argue that PPC's and even lasers vaporize armor and the vaporizing armor causes a jet engine effect. but it might be small considering its not focused

[Rushin Roulette]

Wow... people are seriously still complaining about SSRM twos being OP and skill less?

OK. I grant, they do not take much skill to use... but you try playing against a fast light mech lagging all over the place on a PC with 9-35 FPS and a ping of 150-200 and see how your skillfull balistic and laser weapons fare.

Its like playing a version of your last summer holiday slieshow and hoping that you can hit the right picture before it apears on your monitor... Combine that with the 4FPS bug that happens every now and then and I can guarantee you that you will have trouble hitting mountains because they move too fast. Lasers are semi-possible because at least you can hitscan with them. LRMs and SSRms are great because you at least have a decent chance of hitting anything which is too stupid to use cover or range to their advantage..

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 10 December 2012 - 02:28 AM.

[Xenok]

Dimento Graven, on 09 December 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

While holding fire in your hand is one thing, that's not the same thing as say, someone throwing a baseball and hitting you in the head or arm or torso with it. You will shake. Now, get hit by a LOT of baseballs in the head, arms, and torso and see how much you shake.

Your example was bad... Try another.

Do not need another, a baseball would be the AC20, which should cause some shake. the firecrackers should not.

[Dimento Graven]

Xenok, on 10 December 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Do not need another, a baseball would be the AC20, which should cause some shake. the firecrackers should not.

Yes you do, for your fire ******* analogy to work, you'd have to have something like BB's, or maybe ping pong or wiffle balls be AC/20's.

Nope sorry, it's a crappy comparison, you have to realize you need a proportional type missle. I'm thinking an Este's rocket would come closer. Ever have a rocket go wild and the parachute charge go off incorrectly? On second thought no, I'm not sure what the equivalent would be for a high speed armor piercing projectile with several kilos of high explosive placed in its tip... Maybe .50 caliber rounds with explosive tips?

[Xenok]

Dimento Graven, on 09 December 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Again your comparison to the 'firecracker' is flawed. A simple black cat won't do much damage when it's thrown and blows up on your upper torso. It'll sting a bit and burn like a son of a *****, but we're not talking 'fire *******' equivalent weapons here. We're talking 9mm or .50caliber exploding round armament, and yeah, you get hit in the upper body with those, it'll knock your butt down.

Incorrect, the shake should be equivalent to damage, velocity of the missles, mass of each missile, number of missiles striking, weight of 'mech, direction of travel of missiles vs direction of travel for 'mech, vs location hit.

Since PPC's are only firing excited protons, there's not much mass, but they will at some point impart an EMP like side affect, so cockpit shake isn't required. In my mind gauss rounds should cause the most shake as I believe they have the highest weight and velocity per round then misses and AC rounds, respectively.

Corrected a lot of spelling errors in the quote.

All of my examples are very valid. Cabin shake from missiles (with the exception of the arrow when its added in) is stupid. A bunch of pinging noise sure, but cabin shake from hits which individually are less than 1% of the armor makes no sense. Your arguments against this are simply foolish.

You are correct that the Gauss should have the highest shake, but since the Gauss does not have the velocity that a rail gun should (and I do not want it to) it also would not have the cabin shake that it should. The AC20 should have the unique special effect of causing sufficient cabin shake to, if you can keep up a good series of hits, make it difficult to target or drive. The Gauss does not need this.

I would be fine with the PPC having the EMP effect and no shake at all. Again this makes sense and I would agree with you on it, but if you do it as an effect based on damage, these are the next highest damage weapon next to the AC20 and Gauss, along with AC10.

I would personally rather see cabin shake (not just the hit indicator but the shake that makes it hard to target) restricted to specific weapons. Like the AC10 (mild shake) to the AC20 sever shake. It definitely needs to be nearly completely stripped from SSRM and LRMs. It makes no sense on any logical approach for these small bits of damage to shake your cabin so hard that you cant see to target.