59 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Looking at the latest Catapult pics (and forcing myself to look past the gorgeous Mech model...) The battlefield environment besides being strikingly purdy... it's topical mapping is massive in scale and content.

While our previous iterations of PC Mech games had enough hills and valleys to keep the battlefields from feeling like a table-top... Topically they were fairly minimal in comparability to what appears in the stable of in-game shots to date.

This topology will force us to battle in ways more akin to tactical shooters than what we are used to. A Mech outfitted with the requite modules and a pilot with a groomed skill-set, perched high on a mountain with a fire-support lance-mate or two will be devastating on the battlefield... A fast and maneuverable sniper Mech with a skilled pilot will be able to "shoot & scoot" using the topology to both mask and cover making them a dangerous and elusive target...

While I may be completely over-analyzing the environmental and their impact on battle tactics... I don't think I am. (I'm sure ya'll inform me otherwise if I am...) I believe we truly have the makings for a more cerebral battlefield where charging in guns blazing will quickly usher in your demise... The Mech pilot who is able to take stock in his Mech and his skill-set and how to use the environment before them will truly be a force to be reckoned.

Edited by DaZur, 02 May 2012 - 06:32 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

When I kneel at the end of my bed, hands neatly folded, looking up to the sky above, that is what I pray for every night. I even say please....

Do you think the Dev really hear our Prayers... ?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 02 May 2012 - 06:34 AM.

[MethosFurey]

If that's what you want, then you should have played MechWarrior 4 No Respawn matches. We had that every night for many years. We had role based warfare. We had scouts, snipers, infighters, support mechs, etc. We had this because we'd limit the available tonnages per drop, and you had to choose which mechs to bring based on what was on your planet (for planetary leagues, which made up a lot of the NR play).

The guys at PGI have almost no experience with competitive MechWarrior, so some of their tag-lines are based on the general open server type of play that might have existed early on, which does not have a lot to do with how a large number of people played the game. Understandably though. Take MW4, it sold what 300k copies? Yet, the online community was maybe a total of 10k? Thus, sure, this game will be a big difference for many MechWarrior players.

MWO's huge challenge is to make role-based warfare work without tonnage restrictions.

Edited by MethosFurey, 02 May 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Program 024]

I agree. Although I haven't played as much MechWarrior as some others here, I did notice that the maps are significantly more detailed. Makes me wonder what they will do for urban maps...

[Aegis Kleais]

DaZur, on 02 May 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

Looking at the latest Catapult pics (and forcing myself to look past the gorgeous Mech model...) The battlefield environment besides being strikingly purdy... it's topical mapping is massive in scale and content.

While our previous iterations of PC Mech games had enough hills and valleys to keep the battlefields from feeling like a table-top... Topically they were fairly minimal in comparability to what appears in the stable of in-game shots to date.

This topology will force us to battle in ways more akin to tactical shooters than what we are used to. A Mech outfitted with the requite modules and a pilot with a groomed skill-set, perched high on a mountain with a fire-support lance-mate or two will be devastating on the battlefield... A fast and maneuverable sniper Mech with a skilled pilot will be able to "shoot & scoot" using the topology to both mask and cover making them a dangerous and elusive target...

While I may be completely over-analyzing the environmental and their impact on battle tactics... I don't think I am. (I'm sure ya'll inform me otherwise if I am...) I believe we truly have the makings for a more cerebral battlefield where charging in guns blazing will quickly usher in your demise... The Mech pilot who is able to take stock in his Mech and his skill-set and how to use the environment before them will truly be a force to be reckoned.

People will need to adapt. The landscapes that we've seen so far have hills, valleys and lots of places to take cover. As with many situations, but not all, taking the high ground will be important. But there will also be times at which you just need to find immediate cover from an outcropping or the like.

The lands look varied enough to provide a tactical significance in gameplay, which is very welcomed.

If, as I hope, Mechs even in distant LOS are not immediately reticuled by the HUD until you take note of them and begin sensor probing, it should make for a very unique experience of having to be ever-mindful of your environment, as it will drastically increase the risks of lone-wolfing.

[Hayashi]

DaZur, on 02 May 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

While I may be completely over-analyzing the environmental and their impact on battle tactics... I don't think I am. (I'm sure ya'll inform me otherwise if I am...)

I'm hoping to test out that theory on the beta.

[warner2]

DaZur, on 02 May 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

I believe we truly have the makings for a more cerebral battlefield where charging in guns blazing will quickly usher in your demise

I don't think the implication that this wasn't true in say MW4 is correct. In-fact the word for those pilots who repeatedly charged into battle and got shot down in seconds on the NBT servers was a n00b. They either learned quickly, or left frustrated that they couldn't use their LBX assault 'mech on every map!

I see what you mean though, the maps look richer, and the one pictured is quite hilly, although whether it has any more topographical features than some MW4 maps is debatable. There are bound to more open maps though, as well as more urban maps and so on.

Edited by warner__, 02 May 2012 - 06:52 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

Also, Dazur, Sun Tzu has made multiple references to the tactical importance of terrain. The use of those principles in combat will be akin to other instances where you use tactics and pubbers do not, ie, you get a leg up on the enemy without them even realizing why.

This is one of the reasons why I was for big maps, but NOT having the terrain auto-generated. Everyone gets the same opportunity to learn a map's terrain and then devise a tactical strategy to take advantage of it.

[Rnadmo]

One of the things I am most excited about is the change in terrain. I think it will make the game feel more "real". And as others have said, require actually thinking about your environment more. Exciting!

[Helmer]

There was scenery in those Screenshots?!


I don't see how my personal style needs to change at all. Advance forward, overextend myself, get destroyed easily, make excuses, rinse and repeat.

Hayashi, on 02 May 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

I'm hoping to test out that theory on the beta.

You didn't hear? Moderators are needed more on the forums then testing, we are excluded from being in the closed beta.



Cheers.

[DaZur]

Helmer, on 02 May 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

I don't see how my personal style needs to change at all. Advance forward, overextend myself, get destroyed easily, make excuses, rinse and repeat.

That statement cause a genuine giggle-fit... Nicely painted picture. Kudos! LOL!

[Hayashi]

Helmer, on 02 May 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

You didn't hear? Moderators are needed more on the forums then testing, we are excluded from being in the closed beta.

Cheers.

Since when did your surname start with an I?

[DaZur]

With topology like this and the forced LOS targeting (And or lazing by scout/recon) there will be opportunistic moments where an embedded Mech and or a "scooter" will raise holy hell until someone actually locks onto them...

I believe there will need to be a little more forethought into what Mech you saddle for certain maps... I would think a big'ol Assault Mech on a map like the one pictured in the Catapult pics essentially will have a big "shoot me really hard" bulls-eye on them if the venture into the open while Mediums will kind'a have a field day....

[Helmer]

Hayashi, on 02 May 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Since when did your surname start with an I?

That! Good sir was an underhanded, cruel, devious comment! I have nothing in common with the unnamed one and I refuse to listen to this drivel.

Good day sir. I SAID GOOD DAY!


Nudge nudge, wink wink.


Just to stay on Topic: Oooooooo scenery! There was some!


Cheers.

[Outlaw2]

MethosFurey, on 02 May 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

If that's what you want, then you should have played MechWarrior 4 No Respawn matches. We had that every night for many years. We had role based warfare. We had scouts, snipers, infighters, support mechs, etc. We had this because we'd limit the available tonnages per drop, and you had to choose which mechs to bring based on what was on your planet (for planetary leagues, which made up a lot of the NR play).

The guys at PGI have almost no experience with competitive MechWarrior, so some of their tag-lines are based on the general open server type of play that might have existed early on, which does not have a lot to do with how a large number of people played the game. Understandably though. Take MW4, it sold what 300k copies? Yet, the online community was maybe a total of 10k? Thus, sure, this game will be a big difference for many MechWarrior players.

MWO's huge challenge is to make role-based warfare work without tonnage restrictions.

This pretty much.

The type of "novel" gameplay people FAP over when thinking about MWO has already been experienced by others for over a decade in MW4.

The devs not being competitive players (or even good at multiplayer) is pretty common. Too busy designing and coding, and not enough time playing their own game. I won't hold it too much against them for their inexperience and naivete when it comes to certain things in MW multiplayer and competitive play (at first anyway). Compare them to the MW4 devs. They were devs for a singleplayer game. MP was an after thought. MWO devs are catering to multiplayer, so I have higher hopes for them in the long run.

They have hinted at role and weight class restrictions and even a matchmaker with a "BV" system of sorts. Sounds like its in flux right now, but also that its aimed at pubs. I still worry about how competitive Merc Corps matches will be handled.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 02 May 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[whiskey tango foxtrot]

Think you are SPOT ON

[MaddMaxx]

The GDC video even showed glimpses of this terrain gambit in action. I would have to watch it again for timings but, there was one shot that went over our head from an elevated position, first glance gave the impression of it being a AC turret, well after pursuing the target in question further, we take an AC in the upper chest area from a Hunchback that was moving up and down a quasi ramp taking pot shots, then the fight shifts to another scenario.

Did someone call the Dev's Newbs? really... ouch. Can I have that guys Beta Key, he obviously doesn't want one. My daughter would be very grateful. LOL

[DaZur]

MaddMaxx, on 02 May 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

The GDC video even showed glimpses of this terrain gambit in action. I would have to watch it again for timings but, there was one shot that went over our head from an elevated position, first glance gave the impression of it being a AC turret, well after pursuing the target in question further, we take an AC in the upper chest area from a Hunchback that was moving up and down a quasi ramp taking pot shots, then the fight shifts to another scenario.

Did someone call the Dev's Newbs? really... ouch. Can I have that guys Beta Key, he obviously doesn't want one. My daughter would be very grateful. LOL

I know intimately this portion of the video for which you reference... It's actually one of the scenarios that really got me excited in regards to utilization of the topology.

Here's the thing though... The video was shot with a lot of in-fighting scenarios for the benefit of creating exciting video... (and the topology still was useful BTW!) Let's extend this same scenario out into the 5 kilometer map and the magnitude of topology utilization becomes magnified x 4.

Another shot that juiced me was the long-range missile shots over the lake by an Atlas onto a Hunchie... (Zur wipes a tear)

[MaddMaxx]

DaZur, on 02 May 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

I know intimately this portion of the video for which you reference... It's actually one of the scenarios that really got me excited in regards to utilization of the topology.

Here's the thing though... The video was shot with a lot of in-fighting scenarios for the benefit of creating exciting video... (and the topology still was useful BTW!) Let's extend this same scenario out into the 5 kilometer map and the magnitude of topology utilization becomes magnified x 4.

Another shot that juiced me was the long-range missile shots over the lake by an Atlas onto a Hunchie... (Zur wipes a tear)

Maxx also wipes a tear... with you there good sir... And it seemed the shooter had to hold the cursor for some short bit?

[Outlaw2]

DaZur, on 02 May 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

I know intimately this portion of the video for which you reference... It's actually one of the scenarios that really got me excited in regards to utilization of the topology.

Heh, this is the kind of things Methos was talking about. This is something MW4 players affectionately called "hill humping". It was a technique that was widely used (and somewhat controversial for various reasons). In FFP it was less of an issue though.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 02 May 2012 - 08:19 AM.