128 replies to this topic

[Hartsblade]

pursang, on 02 May 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Alright, let's get this out of the way: MechWarrior is not BattleTech. It may be closely related and based on BattleTech, but MechWarrior has never been about combined-arms warfare. Why do you think that the video games have been called MechWarrior and not BattleTech? You play a MechWarrior! Not some fighter pilot, or tank crewmember. A MechWarrior - something a lot of purists seem to forget. In fact, it's debatable if MW:LL should have even been called MW:LL and not BT:LL instead.

This whole topic is about opinions and everyone's is valid, but this argument that mechwarrior is not battletech is incorrect. Before mechwarrior became a video game title it was/is a rules supplement to battletech, just like aerotech and citytech, that provided rules for roleplaying and it allowed the player to flesh out characters from mechwarriors to aerospace pilots to tankers and so on. Mechwarrior is a subset of Battletech, a part of the whole. Mechwarrior is Battletech.

[pursang]

The MechWarrior franchise is a series of computer and video games based on BattleTech. However they are not one and the same.

[Spooky]

No one is saying that. And calling MW:LL BT:LL instead would not be accurate either, because it's still a game that simulates some aspects of the BattleTech Universe in a 3D, shooter-like environment, just like other MechWarrior games before.

[pursang]

Spooky, on 03 May 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

No one is saying that. And calling MW:LL BT:LL instead would not be accurate either, because it's still a game that simulates some aspects of the BattleTech Universe in a 3D, shooter-like environment, just like other MechWarrior games before.

Er, Hartsblade just did:

Hartsblade, on 03 May 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Mechwarrior is Battletech.

Yeah? No.

[Adridos]

We will probably have some vehicles later, just not player controllable.

As for the advantags of MW:O:
Proffesional team of programmers, artists, etc. behind it.
Official support, which means good servers with good support.
More living, than MW:LL i.e. this is their job, not a hobby like the MW:LL devs, so updates are more frequent.
Maybe better graphics (Cry 2 vs. Cry3 is something I still haven't decided on).
........

[Spooky]

pursang, on 03 May 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

Er, Hartsblade just did:



Yeah? No.

His main point was (as you probably know as well, but I guess you like arguing for the point of arguing at least that's what it looks like to me, judging from your previous posts), that

Hartsblade, on 03 May 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Mechwarrior is a subset of Battletech, a part of the whole.

Edited by Spooky, 03 May 2012 - 03:55 AM.

[pursang]

Spooky, on 03 May 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

His main point was (as you probably know as well, but I guess you like arguing for the point of arguing at least that's what it looks like to me, judging from your previous posts), that

And my point is that while the MechWarrior franchise is based on BattleTech, they are not one and the same. We're just going to have to agree to disagree, eh?

Edited by pursang, 03 May 2012 - 03:59 AM.

[MechRaccoon]

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. We should probably save the "inFamous vs. Prototype" style comparisons 'til the game's released...Ah heck, why not?

I think that I will go with MWO for several reasons:

1. THE MECHS AND THEIR DESIGN

Don't get me wrong, MWLL's Mechs are good, but I prefer MWO's art style much more.

2. THE MECHLAB

MWLL did not support a mechlab. MWO will. Seriously, the mechlab is a good third, or even HALF, of the MechWarrior experience. To not include a mechlab is a sin. But MWLL is so cool I will not consider it a sinner.

3. HARDCORE CONTRACT-TAKING PLANET-HOPPING BUTT-STOMPING MERC ACTION.

We all liked MW4 Mercs, correct? and if you didn't play that, you all enjoyed MW2 Mercs, right? Well, a big part of that was traveling from planet to planet, buying PPCs from the free market, and then kicking butt on the planet below. THAT WAS COOL. MWLL doesn't offer that.

4. MORE FOCUS ON ROLE WARFARE.

I have never experienced role warfare before, but LL is just about who has the Atlas and who doesn't, MWO will focus more on making the light mechs and other stuff more valuable on the battlefield.

5. THE ABILITY TO PICK ANY FACTION IN THE INNER SPHERE. (Well, MOST of the factions. They are apparently leaving out the St. Ives Compact.)

This is mostly an advantage over past MechWarrior games, but whatever. In MWLL, you can only pick Inner Sphere or Clans. In MWO, you'll be able to pick houses Marik, Liao, Kurita, Steiner, and my personal favorite, Davion. I think even MW4 mercs didn't have that many houses.

There's 5 reasons MWO will be superior to MWLL. Not only will it be superior in story, but in combat as well.

But, my opinion from earlier still stands.

"I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. We should probably save the "inFamous vs. Prototype" style comparisons 'til the game's released."- Me, a few paragraphs ago.

[Scar]

MechRaccoon, on 03 May 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

4. MORE FOCUS ON ROLE WARFARE.

I have never experienced role warfare before, but LL is just about who has the Atlas and who doesn't, MWO will focus more on making the light mechs and other stuff more valuable on the battlefield.

Completely wrong point - did you ever play in MWLL? Because the NARC C3 Raven backed by the NLOS-boats can easily waste a dozen of Assaults.

And how do you know what MWO will ACTUALLY offer in the way of the Role warfare? You're comparing the real product with the paper one - sorry, but it's a fanboysm.

[pursang]

Scar, on 03 May 2012 - 04:25 AM, said:

Completely wrong point - did you ever play in MWLL? Because the NARC C3 Raven backed by the NLOS-boats can easily waste a dozen of Assaults.

And how do you know what MWO will ACTUALLY offer in the way of the Role warfare? You're comparing the real product with the paper one - sorry, but it's a fanboysm.

The developers have stated on more then one occasion what role warfare entails. To ignore that/not take that at their word - sorry, but it's fanboyism.

See what I did there?

[Spooky]

pursang, on 03 May 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, eh?

Uhm, no, because we are not disagreeing there .

[pursang]

Spooky, on 03 May 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

Uhm, no, because we are not disagreeing there .

Now you start to understand!

[Scar]

pursang, on 03 May 2012 - 04:27 AM, said:

The developers have stated on more then one occasion what role warfare entails. To ignore that/not take that at their word - sorry, but it's fanboyism.

See what I did there?

So you're still comparing the real product with the paper one, just as i've said. And i'm not ignoring their word - i just don't jump to conclusions because i'm old enough to know that not every word comes to be a real deal. Don't be a fanboy.

And don't be naive - wait, see and think, before you make such a conclusions. ATM it looks like the MWLL offers even more of the Role Warfare just because it has more types of units those MWO won't have at all - like Long Tom, Arrow IV or ASF.

Edited by Scar, 03 May 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[Spooky]

While the role warfare is truly better in MWLL than in any other MechWarrior game before, MW:O's plans still sound vastly better. However it indeed remains to be seen how well this is actually implemented and whether or not it is far too artificial and lacks emergent behaviour.

Edited by Spooky, 03 May 2012 - 04:49 AM.

[pursang]

Scar, on 03 May 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

So you're still comparing the real product with the paper one, just as i've said. And i'm not ignoring their word - i just don't jump to conclusions because i'm old enough to know that not every word comes to be a real deal. Don't be a fanboy.

And don't be naive - wait, see and think, before you make such a conclusions. ATM it looks like the MWLL offers even more of the Role Warfare just because it has more types of units those MWO won't have at all - like Long Tom, Arrow IV or ASF.

Thanks, but I choose to believe that PGI will deliver on their promises. Now, that may make me "naive" or it just may mean you yourself are a bitter old man - I'M NOT JUDGING EITHER WAY. And really, I think you're a little confused about role warfare - role warfare does not constitute individual weapons systems as you seem to think.

Edited by pursang, 03 May 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[LackofCertainty]

I (very recently) bought crysis warhead specifically to play MWLL. I have not played any mech games since MW4, so I'll give my overall impressions of it.

Pros:
- Pretty

- Combined arms combat is interesting.

- Keeps you in the action fairly well.
Personally, I prefer no respawn games. I'll set this as a pro, just cause I know some people like it that way.

Cons:
- Tiny playerbase.
At times it gets as low as 8 people online across all servers in the browser.

- Little consequences for death
Some may like it this way, but as I mentioned above I like feeling like I did some damage. Even if I blow up the enemy atlas, the player respawns in (at most) 30 seconds, and can jump right back into a new mech.

- Banking
In match currency can be transfered between players, so, instead of each player earning their way up to heavier mechs, teams are encouraged to dump all their money in a player who acts as the "banker" and then pass that money around everyone can buy what they want. I feel like it's a broken mechanic that completely trivializes the whole currency system. (which further lowers the consequences of MWLL and makes it feel like an arcady game instead of a sim)

- In match repairs
Since mechs can be repaired in a matter of seconds, it turns a lot of fights into turtled matches. People poke out of cover and slug away a couple times, and then both sides run back to their repair bays and heal up. It's frustrating to me, because it means everyone spends more time in the game running away to repair and less time fighting. It's especially annoying when you heavily damage a mech, only to see it come back at full health a minute later, and further contributes to the "no consequences" problem.

-Heat system is irrelevant
You can instantly lower your heat by dumping coolant. While you have a limited of coolant on your mech, it lasts for a -loooong- time, and it gets refilled every time you repair, so heat is basically non-existant. In one game, I was heavily damaged, and needed to rely on masc to outdistance my pursuers. By dumping some coolant every few seconds, I was able to basically run across about a third of the map with masc permanently on without overheating once. After running all that distance, I was out of coolant, but since I was retreating, it brought me right to my base, so I repaired and got another full tank of "what is this heat you're talking about?" brand coolant.

-Glitchy
It's a total conversion mod that is still in beta, so... yeah. Pretty much what you'd expect. Mech legs routinely get ragdoll glitches that send them flying unrealistically after a mech gets killed. I've had bugs where after toggling my mech on and off, my hud stayed disappeared permanently. (till I jumped out of the mech and got back in)

-Not Free
It is a free mod, yes, but it requires a for pay game. So, while MWLL is "free" it cost me 20$ to play it.


I think MWLL is a good placeholder. I was really getting some massive mech cravings looking at all the stuff for MWO, and it helped me abate those needs somewhat. However, I don't think it's the shining gem in the night that everyone seems to suggest that it is. It is just the only semi-current MechWarrior game available atm. I fully expect MWO to blow it out of the water.

P.S.
I expect I will never touch MWLL ever again after MWO releases, simply because I can get all my friends to play MWO without them having to pay anything. Even though I don't have any other Mech games to fill my needs right now, MWLL is still gathering a lot of dust.

If MWO is total garbage, then... maybe I'd pull out MWLL every now and then for some mech goodness, but I really dislike a lot of the choices the team made with it. More likely I'd just put my mech time into MechWarrior: Tactics when that comes out. MWLL just doesn't really feel like MechWarrior to me.

I guess if every one of the 87 mech games that are coming out this year are complete garbage, then I'll be forced to make MWLL my go-to mech game, but I think it's safe to say the odds are against that.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 03 May 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[Scar]

pursang, on 03 May 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

Thanks, but I choose to believe that PGI will deliver on their promises.

Beliefs are the 1st enemies of the Truth. Think, do not believe.

Quote

Now, that may make me "naive" or it just may mean you yourself are a bitter old man - I'M NOT JUDGING EITHER WAY.

I'm an experienced man - you should learn the difference between the bitter, experienced and naive.

Quote

And really, I think you're a little confused about role warfare - role warfare does not constitute individual weapons systems as you seem to think.

That's why you're wrong again. And i think you're a little confused about the mythical lack of role warfare in MWLL - it offers every aspect of Role Warfare which are intended to be in MWO ,and even more of them, like supply/FOB APC or BA-operations.

[pesco]

I've been playing MWLL for about two months now. I'm not a great fan of the respawn and money-making mechanic. Also -- and I know many will disagree; I don't really want to get into a debate about it -- I'd prefer the game without Aerospace and Battle Armor.

[mekabuser]

The fact of the matter is that mwll would have a steady 150-200 players on at all times if it wasnt a mod that was somewhat difficult to instal etc. If it was one button install with no crash issues etc and such a hardware monster when it launched the numbers might have been 300 online at any given time.
As it is, it has had consistent numbers 3,4,5x the amount of players playing mw4 over the last 5 years.
Visually, mwll is gorgeous, you can salivate over a cata screeny> ? each and every mwll asset is a thing a beauty..
All done by volunteers.

The battletech crowd is a bit of a finicky group eh? Methinks there will be many a river filled with the tears of fanboys when issue x,y,or z isnt implemented EXACTLY the way they envisioned.
while there are certainly members of the dev team who like bt etc, we at mwll KNOW that the dev team consists of talented people who LOVE BT and have spent YEARS working on balance and gameplay.We also have top tier pilots on the dev team who understand the true nature of combat ironing out many balance issues before it even gets released.
On our forums we have an additional pool of talented pilots whose combined input has brought about an amazing level of finetuning to many aspects of the mod. Something that is going to be nigh impossible here with the amount of nonsense that is spewed on these forums.
Sure we all are going to try mwo and wish it the best. That is an attitude that is forged from the utter confidence we all have in our devs and the product that ALREADY exists.
While mwo will certainly be entertaining, i hope its great, it will never be able to simulate the epic levels of combined arms combat that is possible in mwll simply because mwo is mech only, which is incidentally Not how many a battle is in BT lore.
God help the mwo community if mwll fields a few units of mwll vets upon them. We are veterans , we are Living Legends.
oh, mwll has a mechlab coming. Though not important to me, it seems to be oh so important to so many.
additionally, there are 8 people online for about 30 minutes each 24 hour cycle. Most days there is always at least one full server.
The persistent world of MWO will indeed be great, but to me not necessary and incidentally will be interesting to see how the devs handle the limited playing time of its OLDER playerbase which is about 33% who most likely have wives and children.
those arent ragdoll glitches, those are mechs getting blown apart by a very nice ragdoll effect. I would also be very surprised if the mwo team visually depicts mechs being blown apart, killed as well as mwll does.
Id honestly be just a little worried. For Gods sake not one single joystick was seen in the beta test pictures for mwo. We have a dev here who stated he doesnt like to aim with JS. A mech jock? I think not. IF the mwll team had access to the code they would have made any and all control types viable.

Edited by mekabuser, 03 May 2012 - 05:28 AM.

[pursang]

Scar, on 03 May 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

Beliefs are the 1st enemies of the Truth. Think, do not believe.

And which truth would that be? Your truth?

Scar, on 03 May 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

I'm an experienced man - you should learn the difference between the bitter, experienced and naive.

As am I. I don't need someone else to hold my hand and tell me what to think, thank you very much.

Scar, on 03 May 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

That's why you're wrong again. And i think you're a little confused about the mythical lack of role warfare in MWLL - it offers every aspect of Role Warfare which are intended to be in MWO ,and even more of them, like supply/FOB APC or BA-operations.

You know what's funny? I never said that MW:LL never had role warfare! Hilarious really! Oh c'mon now, turn that frown upside down!

As to your first point, I'll leave you with this bit of wisdom:

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices."

- François-Marie Arouet de Voltaire