63 replies to this topic

[Monsoon]

On UAC5 - I have nothing against the new auto-unjam mechanic, the current problem with UAC5 is pretty much the same problem with AC2 and AC5.

That is the New Cataphract 4 Ballistic Hardpoint loadout. With any for of these (AC2/5/UAC5), you're taking a pretty severe beating. Not sure PGI was expecting/ready for this.

The issue PGI needs to address primarily is Impact physics.
This needs to be split into two categories. 1 - the size of the AC round, and 2 - the size of the mech being hit.

Right now AC2 causes more shake then any other weapon, and while they've stated AC/20 is going to do some serious shaking in the near future, it's also important to look at the mech targeted.

AC2 hitting a Commando or Jenner should have more impact then hitting an Atlas, same with any other AC/Gauss round.

Right now getting quad chain-fired pretty much means you aren't going to get anything remotely resembling a steady visual, and even experienced pilots are going to have a hard time turning and aiming under these conditions.

For the next week or so, it's going to be rough with all the Quad gun and streakboats out there. Hopefully PGI will find that happy medium.

Edited by Monsoon, 21 November 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Well I'm glad the UAC un-jam mechanic got changed. DDR MWO was not skill base since inevitably you just made a macro to fix it for you. Now you're just punished for excessively spamming fire on them. They're actually fun to use now where before they were a chore. I'll be updating my 2x AC5 Hunchback and Atlas's to sport UACs instead.

As to AC's in general killing people fast I think it's more that something was done with hit detection again. It's much easier to land solid hits on the enemy than last patch. My PPC builds have seen an increase in lethality particularly in the 100-400m range. I'm even seeing fewer zombie centurion builds since they get cored much faster than before. I'm personally glad for this though it does make games 6-10 minute affairs instead of 8-15 minute matches.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 21 November 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[Zyllos]

I propose one of two UAC jamming machanic changes:

A ) Up the time to ~15s.

B ) Have a random chance of unjamming the weapon upon trying to fire it again. Can only be attempted as quickly as the weapon could fire before it was jammed. The random chance should go up after each unsuccessful attempt. You could start at 5% chance to unjam and increase it by 2.5% for each unsuccessful attempt.

Edited by Zyllos, 21 November 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[Wizard Steve]

This game has been all about lasers, missiles and gauss for weeks. It's about time ACs had their 15 minutes of fame.

[Coolant]

AC2's in MW4:Mercs (Mektek mod) had a recycle of .75...so MWO is on par. The knock is less than the bigger AC's in MWO. They are high heat, and require a lot of ammo to be viable. They are balanced...

There will be more ballistic heavy mechs and their variants coming out in the future. This is just the first heavier mech that can mount several. Have to get used to it....

[SpiralRazor]

Having any kind of input from a Mech pilot is unreasonable. The m242 Autocannon uses a rotor and extractor groove to clear jams, while the clutch slips on the drive to prevent fire until the jam is removed.

In TT you just waste turn to clear a jam from a Rotary AC....there was NEVER any good reason why a UAC gun couldnt be unjammed, when supposedly the RAC guns were much more complicated and prone to jamming. Made no sense other then the BT guys were lazy, which by the time RACS were thought up, they were....or at least they didnt give a crap about the TT game by that point.

[Tarball]

The knock/blur/smoke effects from both streaks and small ACs need to be reduced A LOT. It basicly makes the game unplayable for me if i get stunlocked by those. And yes I know I suck but still they seem way over the top.

Edited by Tarball, 21 November 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Tarball, on 21 November 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

The knock/blur/smoke effects from both streaks and small ACs need to be reduced A LOT. It basicly makes the game unplayable for me if i get stunlocked by those. And yes I know I suck but still they seem way over the top.

Your gunsights don't really move while getting hit and if you have your attacker targeted just shoot into the red square. You know you're hitting if your gunsights turn red.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 21 November 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

TruePoindexter, on 21 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Your gunsights don't really move while getting hit and if you have your attacker targeted just shoot into the red square. You know you're hitting if your gunsights turn red.

But the attacker doesn't stay stationary normally, and then it doesn't matter that the gunsight stays where it is - you still have a hard time actually figuring out where your enemy is. And when you wait for the gunsights turning red- that's already a shot you've wasted.

The knock effect may not bring you totally out of balance, but missing by a hair is still missing.

[Mu]

Since I can't seem to find the answer anywhere: did they remove manual unjam entirely? Just curious. Haven't even used a UAC5 since long before jams were implemented.

[TruePoindexter]

MustrumRidcully, on 21 November 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

But the attacker doesn't stay stationary normally, and then it doesn't matter that the gunsight stays where it is - you still have a hard time actually figuring out where your enemy is. And when you wait for the gunsights turning red- that's already a shot you've wasted.

The knock effect may not bring you totally out of balance, but missing by a hair is still missing.

That's where skill and practice come in. Learn to aim and lead using just sensor data. My new Cataphract 3D easily takes out a streak cat in close combat with all of the cockpit shaking and screen going black. Keep a lock maintain good fire discipline.

[Tarball]

TruePoindexter, on 21 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Your gunsights don't really move while getting hit and if you have your attacker targeted just shoot into the red square. You know you're hitting if your gunsights turn red.

I did notice that my sights don't move but the screen shake means i can't track anything thats moving. I did fight one cata pilot who had quad ac's hitting me but he decided to walk up and stop right infront of me. I alpha striked and think i hit him in the head and he died. Most pilots though will be moving and not standing still. Once you try to track a moving target with the screen shake and smoke iand blur t's impossible, at least for me. I like that it's in the game, I just think they need to calibrate it a bit.

Like someone said before, small ac's shouldn't rock a 100 ton atlas back and forth like it would a light mech.

[LionOne]

SpiralRazor, on 21 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Having any kind of input from a Mech pilot is unreasonable. The m242 Autocannon uses a rotor and extractor groove to clear jams, while the clutch slips on the drive to prevent fire until the jam is removed.

I wondered if anyone who had actually crewed a vehicle with a real world chain gun would post. You beat me to it.

[CrayTrashfire]

Last i knew from cb forums that all ac weapons and gauss have an impulse of 1 and all missiles have an impulse of 2 (this could have been changed for missiles) and i agree 100% that an ac/20 should rock your *** like a frieght train and an ac/2 should hit very lightly this needs to be worked on quad ac/2s will make you unable to see a damn thing much less get or keep target lock and the devastating power of quad ac/5s with the same knock back of quad ac/20s once the knock back issue is resolved i dont think much needs to be done for balance i saw a ctx 2 uac's and 2 a/c5s fire at me and all of them jam 2 erll twice to head and he was done way before his weapons could unjam so i think the gun is well balanced just too much knockback on both ac/2 and u/ac/5

Edited by CrayTrashfire, 21 November 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Lucy Cameron]

Doobles, on 21 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

I'll keep my response short and sweet and it is a clear issue, when I face a 4x ballistic cataphract in 1on1 combat, I lose merely because I cannot keep a lock and the thing rips my torso to shreds in no time without me being able to see what I'm doing.

4X's are slow and turn slower. Don't stand in front of them.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

The AC/2 feature that they shake cockpit more than my LRMs making my missiles sad

[Jacmac]

Zyllos, on 21 November 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

I propose one of two UAC jamming machanic changes:

A ) Up the time to ~15s.

B ) Have a random chance of unjamming the weapon upon trying to fire it again. Can only be attempted as quickly as the weapon could fire before it was jammed. The random chance should go up after each unsuccessful attempt. You could start at 5% chance to unjam and increase it by 2.5% for each unsuccessful attempt.

Choice A is absurdly long, unless you want to reduce the jam chance to 0.5% or something. Choice B doesn't make sense, you want people to spam the fire button to unjam?

[BlackSquirrel]

Just add diminished returns on the shaking... For all weapons missiles, guns etc. More than one AC... Shake gets less and less or say 1/3 of what it would be.

I dont think you remember pre jam UAC5 dragons... They kicked *** too. The unjam timer needs to be more random or the mechanics needs top be like gears of war reload.

[AgroAlba]

Reoh, on 21 November 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

[edit]

After hitting post it occurred to me, they can just macro the fire key to automatically hit the unjam after each shot.

One way to get around this would be to add a 1-2 second unjam delay, for hitting the unjam button (The weapon extracting and clearing the jammed casing) whether or not the weapon is actually jammed. This in combination with the unjam time would increase the time slightly (which some suggested wanting), and at the same time punish macro users who would program a macro to hit unjam after every trigger pull.

[Corvus Antaka]

hopefully PGI is reworking overall physics and damage knock. the knock & knockdowns from damage must be based on hard hitting damage..ac20's primarily, LRM 20's, maybe knock down from a dual erppc gauss alpha strike on lighter mechs.

cockpit shake is the same..should be proportional to the damage, with higher causing more.

as it stands now the machine gun like AC'2/5 is the ideal choice as it gives the knock & the super fast refire rate.

then add Death from Above and it causing damage/knockdowns + collision knockdowns coming back and we start to go to good places.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 21 November 2012 - 02:27 PM.