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A Tale Of Two Betas


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#1 Col Forbin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:09 AM

So let me start off by saying that I love this game. I truly want it to succeed. I am an old-school MW player starting off back in the MW2 days. I love all the simulator aspects this game is trying to achieve.



That being said: I have a respectable rig. We're talking i5 2500K @4.9Ghz, GTX580 @969Mhz, 8Gb RAM, always ping <50ms. When I first started closed beta, I had to install extra fans on my radiator, because this game was pegging my CPU so horribly. No big deal, they seem to have mitigated most of that issue. Anyways, I'm digressing...



So yesterday's patch cut my framerates by 1/3 to 1/2 and feels laggy. Before I only saw other people rubberbanding from lag. That and the lack of Phase 2 matchmaking got me looking at that OTHER open beta....



You know, Planetside 2. It went open beta yesterday. I downloaded and installed it. Created an account, logged in, and jumped into the game. Here are some direct comparisons after a few hours playing.



Map loading:

PS2: smooth as butter with a loading screen

MWO: seizure-inducing flickering, followed by weird texture pop-in/pop-out, with a smattering of brief total black screen



Map size/variety:

PS2: giant, persistent multiple continents of map, mind-boggling in it's expansiveness

MWO: 3 maps, over, and over, and over again



Network play experience:

PS2: ZERO lag. ZERO. Nor did I see anyone else rubberbanding

MWO: lag. lag. lag.



Ballistics:

PS2: graceful ballistic arcs for projectiles. aiming, shooting, and impact of projectiles felt intuitive and natural

MWO: projectiles travel in a straight line. feels unnatural. there is "compensation" you need to make



Menus:

PS2: everything has a description

MWO: nothing has a description



Newbie training:

PS2: 8-10 training videos up. Opening the map, or character spec menus, or spawn menu, brought up a large, thorough tutorial infographic

MWO: 1 video



Patch/bug information:

PS2: at login, a message popped up detailing a critical bug, and how to avoid it. This also popped up sometimes at menu entry

MWO: only found scouring through forums







In conclusion, basically, PS2 feels like a finished game, with a few kinks left to iron out.



I didn't make this post to try and convert people to PS2. They are very different games. I also am not trying to bash PGI. They are under enormous pressure right now. I am merely pointing out that this is what some of the competition looks like. This is what the gaming public is seeing as "beta." I understand they are Sony and have a much bigger team, but these are the realities of today's gaming landscape.

#2 El Penguin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:13 AM

You are comparing a released game and a beta. Planetside 2 didn't go Open Beta, it went released. It says the game is launched and has game awards right now... Also two complete different games.

#3 Taryys

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:16 AM

Yup, game that are in development and have the backing of a major corporation have a major advantage over games backed by independent firms. They have more money, time and man power to get things done.

MWO is in a beta in the real sense, not the "we-are-almost-ready-to-release-and-have-a-few-things-left-to-add-or-fix-so-we-will-let-you-play-with-it-while-we-are-cleaning-up" sort of way.
A crap load is broken and needs to be fixed.
A crap load of functionality needs to be added yet.

#4 Rokuzachi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

The engine that PS2 uses is soul-crushingly good compared to Crytek (as presented in MWO). The lighting is unbelievable. It's kind of odd... because my performance does not decrease at all wether there's 10 people or 200 near me on max settings. (i5 2500k stock speed, 16g 2033 ram, ATI 5870 GPU). I can also play for 4 hours and not see a performance dip.

After 8 matches of MWO, I need to restart my client, which might cause it to crash. =/

I wish that MWO was a large open world with persistent maps that we could drop into and duke it out on. That would be... amazing.

MWO might as well be released. They're letting people spend $$$ in it and have said no more wipes. Pretty much just semantics at this point.

Edited by Rokuzachi, 21 November 2012 - 11:20 AM.


#5 Col Forbin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:21 AM

View PostEl Penguin, on 21 November 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

You are comparing a released game and a beta. Planetside 2 didn't go Open Beta, it went released. It says the game is launched and has game awards right now... Also two complete different games.


That's kind of my point there.... MWO is also "released" to the public. Doesn't matter what you call it. You can argue semantics all day, but perception is stronger than arbitrary labels.

#6 Samantha

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:22 AM

You are comparing a game produced by a reputable, professional AAA stock listed company to a company that's only made xbox games up to now. They have different niches but the core is F2P MMO games (I don't know why mwo bills itself as a mmo).

So of course ones going to be polished and smooth and the other shoddy. No brainer really.

That and PS2 devs handled their beta well, the game sells itself through word of mouth alone from happy beta clients. MWO failed totally in this regard and achieved the opposite, but once again, can't compare SONY to PGI.. Its like compare a go kart to a ferrari

Edited by Samantha, 21 November 2012 - 11:25 AM.


#7 Col Forbin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:23 AM

View PostRokuzachi, on 21 November 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

The engine that PS2 uses is soul-crushingly good compared to Crytek (as presented in MWO). The lighting is unbelievable. It's kind of odd... because my performance does not decrease at all wether there's 10 people or 200 near me on max settings. (i5 2500k stock speed, 16g 2033 ram, ATI 5870 GPU). I can also play for 4 hours and not see a performance dip.

After 8 matches of MWO, I need to restart my client, which might cause it to crash. =/

I wish that MWO was a large open world with persistent maps that we could drop into and duke it out on. That would be... amazing.

MWO might as well be released. They're letting people spend $$$ in it and have said no more wipes. Pretty much just semantics at this point.



I was dipping 10-15 FPS when going from being alone to heated large-scale battle, on max settings, including .ini tweaks. But no lag whatsoever.

#8 Taryys

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:24 AM

Please, not another of these threads.
We have had to many of these.

You title is also mistaken: a tale of a Beta and a Release
If people chose to ignore the labels then that is what is going to happen.

We are in Beta. They are released.
There is a difference.

#9 Byk

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:24 AM

Mwo is still in open beta... Whereas Planetside 2 is actually released. Yesterday was it's launch date, it is released, not in open beta, like MWO is RIGHT now. For ****'s sake people. Just because you can buy things for real money does not mean the game is finished. You can't deny that every patch has been a step forward. There have been a loud, vocal minority that seem to have major issues with every patch; but in reality they are progressing the game steps forward, not back.

#10 Col Forbin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:27 AM

View PostTaryys, on 21 November 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Please, not another of these threads.
We have had to many of these.

You title is also mistaken: a tale of a Beta and a Release
If people chose to ignore the labels then that is what is going to happen.

We are in Beta. They are released.
There is a difference.



The only difference is semantics. No matter how much you wish it was different. Also, sorry, I didn't see any other threads since yesterday doing direct comparisons to PS2. Maybe point one out?

#11 somerandom18

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:27 AM

When ps2 was in beta it was still better in every way then mwo.. just sayin'

#12 Taryys

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:29 AM

If by semantics you mean definitions of the words, then yes.
If you chose to ignore what the words mean then there are going to be problems


View PostCol Forbin, on 21 November 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

The only difference is semantics. No matter how much you wish it was different. Also, sorry, I didn't see any other threads since yesterday doing direct comparisons to PS2. Maybe point one out?


#13 Vlad Ward

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:29 AM

View PostCol Forbin, on 21 November 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:


That's kind of my point there.... MWO is also "released" to the public. Doesn't matter what you call it. You can argue semantics all day, but perception is stronger than arbitrary labels.


"Look, I don't really care if you want to label that thing over there an apple. I look at it, and I see a red, round, edible object, so I'm going to call it a tomato. It doesn't really matter how different they are on the inside, because perception is all that matters in the real world."

#14 Rokuzachi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:30 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

PS2: Open Beta - cannot spend station cash.
WoT: Open Beta - cannot purchase or spend premium currency.
MWO: "Open Beta" - can spend and purchase premium currency.

Label it all you want, the game has released to the public.

Edited by Rokuzachi, 21 November 2012 - 11:32 AM.


#15 Karyudo ds

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:30 AM

View PostCol Forbin, on 21 November 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

I am merely pointing out that this is what some of the competition looks like.


The funny part is that they aren't exactly competition when they're very different products. Shooters and mech games aren't entirely the same though I do like both but the only thing in common beyond the view to me is the fact that they both in theory cost nothing but time. Like rich step parents trying to buy my love.

I wasn't nearly as impressed with PS2 when I got to play it originally and actually though MWO felt a bit more polished in some areas, though it has gotten a bit better.

I still think someone needs to do a side by side comparison of MWO and Farmville 2. Just because.

#16 AC

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:33 AM

View PostRokuzachi, on 21 November 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:



I wish that MWO was a large open world with persistent maps that we could drop into and duke it out on. That would be... amazing.

MWO might as well be released. They're letting people spend $$$ in it and have said no more wipes. Pretty much just semantics at this point.



That would be amazing. I would avoid Ice City like the plague. I wish MWO just had standard server style game play. You could play on the map you like, on a PUG only server, or a Team server. You could CHOOSE your experience here. Right now it is a crap shoot, and no matter how much they refine the match maker, it will still be a crap shoot. People like to have some modest control over their game experience, and PGI seems intent on limiting that for some reason. I feel this is a very poor decision. ;)


EDIT:

Standard Server Style game play is very easilly possible right now. All PGI would have to do is allow 2-3 minutes between matches for people to repair and reload or choose a different mech, and everyone is off to the races again. I know I would enjoy that experience WAY more than the current (or future) match maker.

Edited by AC, 21 November 2012 - 11:35 AM.


#17 Vlad Ward

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:34 AM

On topic, I can't even get Planetside 2 to launch without immediately crashing to desktop so I can't really compare the two games. It's been like that since closed beta for me =/.

#18 Taryys

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:34 AM

Look, I appreciate what you are trying to say OP. None of us in the closed beta wanted the game to release, but that does not matter, since it was not PGi's call. We are here. The game is in open beta, a real BETA.

All of us would like for the game to have been underwritten by a large studio so they could take as long as they wanted to get things right, but that is not what the case is. MWO is underwritten by a small firm, and Open Beta therefore actually means open beta. Comparisons like this are not at all helpful and are constructive towards help PGI more forward. We are in open beta and there is no going back.

We need to suck it up and be part of the solution.

#19 Rokuzachi

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:35 AM

View PostAC, on 21 November 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:



That would be amazing. I would avoid Ice City like the plague. I wish MWO just had standard server style game play. You could play on the map you like, on a PUG only server, or a Team server. You could CHOOSE your experience here. Right now it is a crap shoot, and no matter how much they refine the match maker, it will still be a crap shoot. People like to have some modest control over their game experience, and PGI seems intent on limiting that for some reason. I feel this is a very poor decision. ;)


If they had a set of persistent servers with a larger map, say like 10km x 10km, with multiple 'take and hold' objectives that people could join at their leisure... oh man. I'd be in heaven. I'd literally play for hours on end uninterrupted. Would greatly prefer this over the 15 minute match setup.

#20 Col Forbin

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:36 AM

View PostKaryudo ds, on 21 November 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:


The funny part is that they aren't exactly competition when they're very different products. Shooters and mech games aren't entirely the same though I do like both but the only thing in common beyond the view to me is the fact that they both in theory cost nothing but time. Like rich step parents trying to buy my love.

I wasn't nearly as impressed with PS2 when I got to play it originally and actually though MWO felt a bit more polished in some areas, though it has gotten a bit better.

I still think someone needs to do a side by side comparison of MWO and Farmville 2. Just because.


I would call it competition if I'm playing it instead of MWO. I'm sure I'm not the only one.





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