53 replies to this topic

[Technoviking]

Ravenhawke, on 03 May 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

I'm sorry.

In the spirit of realism, if my mech's about to pop, I'm bailing.

A mech can be replaced, I can't

In the 30th century, life is cheap, but BattleMechs aren't.

I mean, I guess if you already blew your ride...

Edited by Technoviking, 03 May 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[8100d 5p4tt3r]

I am inclined to lean toward a penalty for ejecting.

Well if the Clans are introduced anyway.

As roughly stated above:

"Life is cheap. BattleMechs are expensive." – Advertising slogan, Irian BattleMechs Ltd.

I feel it is the pilot's duty to maintain the mech, unless there is absolutely no alternative.

If you are going to lost the mech, make it count!


There was a role playing TT session a few friends and I had one night, where a mech was going down, the GM let the two pilots play it out, of course based on the role of the die, to see if the pilot got out, but due to a little "physics" (a piloting role which failed as the mech was falling forward; the pilot ejected and based on a "to hit" role, and the proximity of the mechs (toe-to-toe) the pilots seat rocketed into the CT of the other mech, causing 2pts of damage and a chance at a crit role, painting the remaining armor blood red (we laughed till some of us were in tears) the chain reaction was a crit hit to MG ammo....of a Med mech...

I am sure those of you with detailed imaginations can play that series of events back in your mind.

Even just a pilot is deadly to a mech. MUHAHA!

[Lightfoot]

8100d 5p4tt3r, on 03 May 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

I am inclined to lean toward a penalty for ejecting.

Well if the Clans are introduced anyway.

As roughly stated above:

"Life is cheap. BattleMechs are expensive." – Advertising slogan, Irian BattleMechs Ltd.

I feel it is the pilot's duty to maintain the mech, unless there is absolutely no alternative.

If you are going to lost the mech, make it count!

Then perhaps two different rewards, because at the moment there is no reason for a PC pilot to ever eject. The Eject command doesn't even need to be included.

However, I am thinking once your 'mech is determined by the game to be dead, gameover, the player is warned to "Eject" or they can ignore Betty and take a chance on getting off one more shot that has only a 10% (?) chance of even working. The reward for not ejecting is taking the chance the last shot fires. The reward for ejecting within 2-3 seconds is some benefit like XP or unknown thing.

It is of course just an RP thing and some pilots will never eject for roleplay reasons so the rewards and penalties for ejecting/not ejecting should be relatively minor, but adding a reason to eject is a definate game-changer, since, well, now that eject button starts to look a lot more interesting.

Edited by Lightfoot, 03 May 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[Mr Smiles]

Reminds me of one time, I had a mostly crippled Griffin, fleeing the front lines with no armor, broken leg, no LRM ammo, etc. etc. get chased down by an ENTIRELY intact BattleMaster. Rather than continue to run, I had the Griffin turn around, fire its PPC...

Hit! ... hit location: 12, head. Head has 9 points of armor, PPC deals 10 damage, roll for crit. Ooh, roll for 1 critical hit location. 1d6... 3: Cockpit

BattleMaster's pilot is killed instantly, turned to some charred, electrified bones by a PPC.

* * * *

THAT is the reward for choosing to fight when you're critically injured, instead of running. The chance you may pull it off. Crits, and accurate shooting are why you might choose to not eject when your mech is about to pop.

The reason you would choose to eject is, obviously, to save yourself from pilot injury and thus a loss of XP/cash.

I heard someone say it would be hard for the devs to come up with a good system for this. I don't think it would, teh results are right there: not ejecting earns you the chance to make some serious kills and victories for your team, possibly even keeping you in the fight, at the risk of getting killed and losing some XP/cash. Ejecting saves you from death, keeping that XP/cash that you already have earned, but at the risk of prematurely ejecting when you could've made it out just fine and not lost cash/XP for having your mech 'disabled by ejection'. That is, perhaps ejecting loses you SOME cash/XP, more than simply retreating, but less than getting your pilot blown to smithereens.

Edited by Mr. Smiles, 03 May 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[8100d 5p4tt3r]

The penalty be that if you "die" or eject from a mech in a round.

You gain no experience or what you did acquire so far isn't kept or a % of it is kept.

As a lesson or some aspect of encouragment to TRY, learn and get better.

[Technoviking]

8100d 5p4tt3r, on 03 May 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

As roughly stated above:

"Life is cheap. BattleMechs are expensive." – Advertising slogan, Irian BattleMechs Ltd.

Not so roughly stated!

[8100d 5p4tt3r]

Technoviking, on 03 May 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Not so roughly stated!

We are saying the same thing but differently .

Mine was from the back cover of the Compendium printed in 94.
http://www.sarna.net...ules_of_Warfare

Regardless of wording the message is the same.

[Aegis Kleais]

Lightfoot, on 03 May 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

Not sure I ever pressed the eject button on a 'Mech, but if such an option were included in MWO should the player receive XP for safely ejecting in time? Probably used in the event of a Core Breach/ atomic event.

I mean 'Mech-Pod ejection is used in just about every MechWarrior game intro video. MechCommander 1, MechWarrior 3, MechWarrior 4, and of course the best one is from MWO's premiere video a few years ago.

EJECT...EJECT....EJECT....

There should be SOME kind of reward for safe ejection (despite whether the game lets you shoot down ejected pilots).

A pro/con with everything. It may be crucial you stay with your Mech til the end, or you may want to minimize repair costs by bailing out earlier.

[Technoviking]

8100d 5p4tt3r, on 03 May 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

We are saying the same thing but differently .

Mine was from the back cover of the Compendium printed in 94.
http://www.sarna.net...ules_of_Warfare

Regardless of wording the message is the same.

Yours sounds better, but I thought you were calling my geek cred into question! Paraphrase! HA! Never!

*fist bump*

[Lightfoot]

@Mr. Smiles,

It would get a bit complex I think if players had to think ahead and diminish the game if thinking about ejecting over-shadowed gameplay. So I think it's better and more realistic if Betty warns the player to eject before any reward would be offered.

It would be going overboard for players to use the eject button as an ability to avoid the mounting consequences of a battle gone bad. However, if the Eject option/ reward is offered at the point of 'mech-death it would just be some added realism.

Edited by Lightfoot, 03 May 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[Goldhawk]

When the reactors breached, and the klaxons are blaring, and the radiation symbol shows up, I'm gone. I don't want to end up like Grayson Carlyle. Dying due to cancer and exposure to too many open mech reactors. I want to have kids someday. Picture an Atlas with 3 little Urban mechs around it.
Atlas: C'mon kids! Time for dinner!
Urbie: Auwww, do we have to?
(Atlas reaches out a hand and rubs the top of the Urbie's dome.)
Atlas: You know your mother, if I don't show up when she calls, she'll set me on fire! *Chuckles*


I know, not as funny, but I'm drowsy.

[Geist Null]

auto-eject on mechs death.

[HeIIequin]

Well a good question to ask is whether we'll be allowed to eject anytime we want, or only when our computer system says we can. If we can eject when we want, then you have to try to deal with people ejecting for no good reason. If you can only eject when our HUD's flashing a giant red "EJECT" sign, then we don't have to worry about it, and can simply make ejecting and not ejecting give small bonus values of some kind.

I understand ejecting means you 'saved' your pilot, but because of the whole persistent mech and pilot thing, I say ejecting gives you no pilot xp bonus, but you -might- get cheaper repairs, since your mech wasn't quite fully destroyed yet. Fighting till the end could net you more pilot xp (regardless of whether you actually do anything). Heck for all we know, there's some sort of 'damaged' mech section to the pilot or mech tree, and fighting in a busted mech gets you xp for it or something

Edited by HeIIequin, 03 May 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[Lightfoot]

What I am thinking is you would only receive the reward, whatever that might be, after Betty tells you to Eject! Prior to that you would just be giving up before the battle was completed. No gain in that though. Of course Betty doesn't lie, if Betty says eject it's because you were defeated.

I think the choice players should have about whether to eject or not is some want to go down fighting, so at 'mech-death they take a chance the 'mech's circuits are still connected enough to fire off one last shot, which is either really hard to aim or has a low probability of firing or they eject receiving some small benefit. XP, lower repair costs, etc.

Edited by Lightfoot, 03 May 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Another thought. Maybe Betty should only give the Eject warning/option periodically and/or for a Core Breach. Mix things up a bit. Computers don't know everything afterall. Or maybe there is a better way.

Edited by Lightfoot, 03 May 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Sougokami]

Ravenhawke, on 03 May 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

I'm sorry.

In the spirit of realism, if my mech's about to pop, I'm bailing.

A mech can be replaced, I can't

I agree. This game is supposed to focus on the mechwarrior, not the 'mech. If the mech explodes, but you safely punch out, you're dispossessed but at least you are still breathing. I might consider a "failure is not an option" sacrifice where I let myself die to squeeze out that last shot when my world is at stake, but 99% of the time I want to walk back to base and be happy I survived.

[Tearalum]

I feel like there is an ambiguous joke about premature ejection that needs to be made somewhere here.

[FrostRaven]

Some excellent points have been made. Obviously the Mechs computer systems will let you know if something catastrophic has or is about to happen such as:

•Critical hit on cockpit armour (injury to Mech pilot may result from damaged directly to where you are sitting, regardless of armour);
•Critical engine failure;
•Radiation containment failure;
•Critical heat level (again you can ignore, but you may roast your pilot alive);
•Ammunition explosion;
•Centre torso armour failure; and
•Locomotion failure, i.e. your legs are both shot out.

As mentioned above and by the Devs, MWO is suppose to be a Mech Pilot simulator, not a Mech simulator so protecting 'yourself' SHOULD be your top priority.

The choice to eject should rest with the pilot, with the option to have auto eject turned on or off. There are issues with the how to reward/punish a pilot. To quote Thulsa Doom "What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?" Obviously winning (or at least fighting against the odds) should be rewarded. But putting yourself in intensive care or dying will generally not make you better for the experience, What doesn't kill you does not necessarily make you stronger. So in closing:

1.Ejecting before the warning = same as fleeing the battlefield, or leaving the match (aka ragequit) no bonus but full repairs on Mech because your Lance mates all puts a few rounds into it after you left.
2.Eject after warning = Save on medical bills, however injuries can still be sustained while in combat, say a broken rib from a falling Mech or ejecting, as was stated above, into the torso of another Mech.
3.Any damage done to enemy Mechs after ejection warning = 'going down swinging' bonus as stated above % increase to xp + credits earned for damage done, however you run the risk of pilot death and a nice little c-bill and possible xp bill to pay.

[Aegis Kleais]

Geist Null, on 03 May 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

auto-eject on mechs death.

CHEAP!

[tmetal]

Several people have suggested the alternative that the pilot chooses to stay in the mech as it starts to explode in the hopes of getting off that one last shot (with only a small % chance of the weapons actually firing), shouldn't there also be a small % chance that pulling the trigger for that last stand shot causes the catasrophic explosion that is normally a few seconds away to happen right then?

For example, your engine is critically damaged and is in the process of melting down (you have 5-10 more seconds untill the explosion); in a heroic last stand gesture you pull the trigger on your energy weapon grouping asking your mech to also try to pump out the energy needed to fire that last med laser barrage. Unfortunately many if not all of the safety functions that normally control that discharge of energy and heat from your engine to your laser array are not functioning or are trying to do their best to contain the upcoming explosion, now you over taxed them by pulling the trigger and instantly *boom* goes the mech with the squishy meat bag still inside. No last stand reward, just the penalty associated with death in game.

The ejection side to this would be if you pulled the ejection handle at such a time that your pilot would be ejected into a large hard object. Example: you eject while your mech is falling and instead of having enough room for your rocket propelled command couch to slow and deploy your chute by ejecting straight up, your pilot travels in an arc according to how the mech was falling, slams into the ground before the chute deploys, and paints a small part of the battlefield blood red. No safely ejected reward, just the penalty associated with death in game.

I guess what I am saying is that both the eject and last stand options should both come with a very small risk of complete failure.

**wow...this post reads much more harshly than I intended it to be oh well.

Edited by tmetal, 03 May 2012 - 03:04 PM.