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Dragon Without Xl


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#21 Mithos

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:26 AM

Whats so wrong about it? Lights are still faster after engine upgrade.

#22 Imagine Dragons

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:27 AM

Tried a few ST engine Dragons last night, mainly stock variants with ES&DHS, couldn't over heat for the life of me, ran out of ammo quickly...

It's doable, however at times you feel very outgunned and slow.

#23 Alwrathandabout42ninjas

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

I use the Dragon DRG-1C to great effect. Armor maxed out ES XL360 6 DHS AMS 4 med pulse lasers, SRM6. Choose your fights wisely and try and take out scouts, and when you see a team mate in a 1 on 1 go help him out and score a kill then quickly get out. Go for base cap or defend your base cap if neccesary. Amazing all round mech.

Edited by Alwrath, 27 November 2012 - 02:22 PM.


#24 Kyrs

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:54 PM

well balance 1C variant mech, speed amor and damage
std. 265 engine (goes 76.9 with speed tweak)
397 armor (standard)
endo steel structure
ultra AC5 (5 tons of ammo)
1x 2ssrm (1 ton of ammo)
4x medium lasers
2x double heat sinks
1 ams (1 ton of ammo)

Can be modified to XL360 if you remove the streak2 and switch for small lasers or cut down on ultra's ammo

Edited by Kyrs, 27 November 2012 - 08:55 PM.


#25 Stingz

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:48 AM

View PostMithos, on 27 November 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

Whats so wrong about it? Lights are still faster after engine upgrade.


As long as you can get it with C-Bills, I'll be happy to have a scout that can survive Streaks, and still have lagshield.

#26 Little Nemo

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:03 AM

I never run XL engines in my Dragons. I am perfectly fine with a STD 280 or 245 even. Med Lasers, SSRMs or SRM6 and UAC5s are the only weapons I really run. Endo and DHS of course. I rarely do under 400 damage a round and the most I've done was over 700 with the 1N. No sense in being able to run around fast if you can't deal any damage IMO. 65-75 is fast enough for me. That's why I have my teammates right beside me.

#27 Lefty Lucy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:14 AM

View PostSkinny Pete, on 28 November 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

I never run XL engines in my Dragons. I am perfectly fine with a STD 280 or 245 even. Med Lasers, SSRMs or SRM6 and UAC5s are the only weapons I really run. Endo and DHS of course. I rarely do under 400 damage a round and the most I've done was over 700 with the 1N. No sense in being able to run around fast if you can't deal any damage IMO. 65-75 is fast enough for me. That's why I have my teammates right beside me.


If that's fast enough for you the Cataphract would be a better chassis. You can get the same versatility in weapons, but with more armor and heat sinks.

#28 Kyrs

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

View PostLefty Lucy, on 28 November 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:


If that's fast enough for you the Cataphract would be a better chassis. You can get the same versatility in weapons, but with more armor and heat sinks.


I don't think that the only factor that comes into play when you choose a dragon vs cataphract. Dragoon much better spotter with his cockpit on top, pitch and twist aren't the same. For some ppl these factor are more important with there gaming tactics. If Skinny Pete is better with those small differences in the chassis, then your previous argument isn't the absolute Truth...

#29 Lefty Lucy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

View PostKyrs, on 28 November 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:


I don't think that the only factor that comes into play when you choose a dragon vs cataphract. Dragoon much better spotter with his cockpit on top, pitch and twist aren't the same. For some ppl these factor are more important with there gaming tactics. If Skinny Pete is better with those small differences in the chassis, then your previous argument isn't the absolute Truth...


But cataphract variants other than the 4X don't have to deal with wonky arm-mounted-ballistic convergence issues, which is one of the big reasons why I don't drive dragons any more.

#30 Kyrs

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:36 PM

View PostLefty Lucy, on 28 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:


But cataphract variants other than the 4X don't have to deal with wonky arm-mounted-ballistic convergence issues, which is one of the big reasons why I don't drive dragons any more.


That true!!!...I'll give that one.. it is quite wonky in close range just hope they fix the netcode or give me a off button for convergence and let me do the thinking (which you already have to do with obstacle vs angle, may has well go easy on the mind and let it continue it line of though)

#31 RealSteel1981

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:55 AM

is there any comparioson between dragon and cataphract out there, in therms of torso twist speed.

my dragons climb up hills and cliffs like a goat, moving with 93 km/h.

hit and run, i like it.

how does a catap behave in this disicpline ?

#32 Khobai

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 07:22 AM

No reason not to use an XL in a dragon it has tiny side torsos and the only advantage it has is speed.

#33 Zanathan

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:16 PM

View PostRealSteel1981, on 29 November 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

is there any comparioson between dragon and cataphract out there, in therms of torso twist speed.

my dragons climb up hills and cliffs like a goat, moving with 93 km/h.

hit and run, i like it.

how does a catap behave in this disicpline ?


I have been doing just this in the Phract 2X and as mentioned in an earlier post the load out is the same the only difference is I don't have a STD engine in my Phract and go 12kph slower.

I dont notice any difference in terms of scaling hills and what not nor running around other mechs. I am playing similar to how I would my Dragon.

As for torso twist, I will to have check properly but from the last few matches where I tried to take note, it is a bit less then the Dragon. Will need to confirm though.

View PostKhobai, on 29 November 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

No reason not to use an XL in a dragon it has tiny side torsos and the only advantage it has is speed.


Well my whole point is I am running the Phract with the same weapon loadout and close to the same substantial speeds yet I don't have to use an XL. So repairs are less and I am not out when one side of my mech is taken out.

#34 bonapartist1

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 05:59 PM

View PostKyoJ, on 22 November 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

Running a dragon without an XL is easy enough as long as you take endo-steel and double heat sinks.

Here is my striker build for my 1N dragon

std. 300 engine
352 armor (using optimized armor)
ultra AC5 (3 tons of ammo)
2x 4srm (1 ton of ammo)
2x medium lasers
2x heat sinks

Currently, I can easily get 400-500 damage per game but you need to know how to play a striker.


Here is a skirmisher build that works

std. 300
288 armor (no armor on left torso and left arm)
2x AC2 (6 tons of ammo)
2x ssrm (2 tons of ammo)
no additional heat sinks

This is a skirmisher build, so know how to play a skirmisher. The 2x ssrm are used to kill light mechs while you use the long range 2x AC2 to constantly deal damage.

You can deal 400-500 damage if the battle extends long enough but it is much harder.


I use an alternation on this theme, 1 Ultra AC5 (GREAT WEAPON), 2 SL and 2 SSRMs. It's a great build.

#35 Xenon Codex

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:12 PM

I've elited my Dragons, only other mech I've run has been Jenners (all elite), besides the crappy trials. I ran the STD 245 for a while on one variant, it allowed me to pack in some goodies, stay in the fight a while, and was pretty cheap to run to score some credits. However, it just felt wrong. Without XL it had staying power but I always had to hold back from getting into the thick of things, never really got good results. I think there are better chassis out there if you are going to sacrifice speed on the Dragon.

I eventually saved up for an XL350, and that's all I run now. 101 kph with speed tweak, fast torso twist, and excellent arm movement (very challenging to master IMO). I've been playing around with all sorts of loadouts, my favorite so far are a guass with close-range weapons (MPLS, etc.), a large laser boat, or an LBX with SRMs and machine guns (5N variant, though it's the weakest IMO). Either way, my best matches have always been with hit-n-run tactics, not being a pure sniper nor a pure brawler. Keep in mind I cut my teeth on the Jenner, so it may just be my particular skill set that pushes me that way. I'm not so good at pin-point accuracy contests, so spread effect weapons and high speed work best for me. I'm not skilled enough to get 400+ damages, but usually get 200-400 with 1-3 kills and lots of assists and spots. On a typical win, I bank around 220k with around 800 xp with Premium bonus. I never re-arm or repair items and don't run FF, so repair costs are usually under 20k. The key to running an XL economically is don't repair it! Just fix your armor, and maybe an important weapon (guass, LBX. AC/10). It's just not worth 60k to fix 15 hit points of damage IMO.

The Dragon is a pretty versatile chassis, it begs to be to toyed with, so all I can advise is to read some the threads on these forums and play around a bit. Every day I think of new loadouts to try. I'm quite happy to have chosen it as my 2nd chassis. I've died a lot, but learned a lot and have been having lots of fun doing so. My current loadout is a 1C with 4 LL and 1 SRM6. Tempted to swap a couple of LL for an LBX though, as heat is a killer even with DHS, but I'd have to sacrifice armor or add FF. Such is life on MWO. :)

My gold nugget of Dragon advice is to lose some armor on the legs, it's not really needed. I've never been legged and I keep it at around 35 on most builds. I also tend to put a lot more armor in the front side than the back and keep my torso twisted when running away to protect my backside if it gets damaged. Learn to keep on eye on your damage throughout the match. With 60 in your front center, it'll take a lot of pounding to get cored. Keep moving, but don't be afraid to stop for a second and line up a good shot!

As far as speed goes, in an earlier match today I lost all my weapons, all armor on front and back torso and leg, so bugged back to base to hide. Rest of team got killed near enemy base, leaving two enemy heavies left to cap. I powered back up, ran around them, and capped to win the match. Know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em! Many ways to win a match!

#36 Wrenchfarm

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:13 AM

I use XL350s in two of my Dragons and a XL320 in the other. With speed tweak, the XL350 hits 101kph while still carrying a nice compliment of fire power.

I've very rarely side cored. The gigantic CT box manages to catch every shot and beam in the game. Good news is your XL vulnerability isn't an issue, bad news is concentrated damage can add up quickly if they get any kind of shot at you, so stay light on those Dragon claws!

#37 MrLiNcH

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:26 AM

I'm currently running the STD300, 2ML, MPL, SRM6 and UAC5, with 360-ish armor, Endo and DHS. Plenty of survival with speed (often the last to survive) while still pulling 2-300 dmg per match (as long as I don't rush into the whole group of 8 by accident, lol).

Looking to use the XL320 from my AWS-9M purchase to get some more speed and weight for a second MPL.

#38 malibu43

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:50 AM

I'm running a 1C with the STD 300 engine right now. AC5 + ammo, SRM6 + ammo, and 4 MLAS. DHS and ES. I'm doing OK with it, often in the 300-400 range on damage.

What is the formula for repair costs on XL engines? The biggest deterrent for me isn't the initial purchase cost, but the possibility that I'll start breaking even during wins and losing CB in losses. Can anyone say what the repair costs are with their XL300?

#39 Quinton

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:07 AM

first mech i purchased was a DRG-5N running STD 300 pair of AC/2's and 2 medium lasers, made it a fairly effective sniper, and even if people weren't standing still much it makes a damn good mech for forcing enemies to keep their heads down.

Hasn't been as effective since the last patch, not sure what happened but i would swear ac/2 fires slower and does less damage than it used to.

That being said, I still manage to rip an atlas arm off every now and then when they decide to charge across open terrain and ignore me blasting them XD

#40 Imagine Dragons

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:14 AM

The knocking affect from the AC/2 was reduced. So it no longer has its surpressing qualities.





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